RPGnet - User contributions [en]

Talk:Mano a Mano

2007-11-29T23:38:48Z

206.129.215.230: /* Build Replaced by Variance */

==New Character Sheet, Template and Build system==

This character sheet is intended to serve for both characters and templates. It should have everything you need to modify a character (including template modifications) except for information like special CP which is part of the ability list.

NAME ________________________ AGE _______ SEX ______ TEMPLATE _______________

OCCUPATION(S) _______________________________________________________________

Grip _____ ABILITIES Template Character
Carrying Capacity _____ kg and disabilities CP Mod CP Lvl Mod
Equipment Mass _____ kg ___________________ (______) ___ (______) ___ ___
Encumbrance _____ ___________________ (______) ___ (______) ___ ___
Speed-Encumbrance _____ ___________________ (______) ___ (______) ___ ___
Stride _____ ___________________ (______) ___ (______) ___ ___
ground movement _____ m ___________________ (______) ___ (______) ___ ___
water movement _____ m ___________________ (______) ___ (______) ___ ___
air movement _____ m ___________________ (______) ___ (______) ___ ___
climbing movement _____ m ___________________ (______) ___ (______) ___ ___
___________________ (______) ___ (______) ___ ___
Template CP (_______) ___________________ (______) ___ (______) ___ ___
Character CP (_______) ___________________ (______) ___ (______) ___ ___
Total CP (_______) ___________________ (______) ___ (______) ___ ___

Template Character Template Character
Mass ________ kg +/-___% ________ kg CP Mod CP Lvl Mod
Length ________ m +/-___% ________ m Agility (______) ___ (______) ___ ___
Type __________ Speed (______) ___ ___
Var. __________ Health (______) ___ (______) ___ ___
Power (______) ___ (______) ___ ___

NATURAL Template Character
WEAPONS Dex Qty Rch Shp QtyCP RchCP ShpCP CP Rch CP Cmb Pwr
___________ ___ ___ ___ ___ (_____+_____+_____)=(______) ___ (______) ___ ___
___________ ___ ___ ___ ___ (_____+_____+_____)=(______) ___ (______) ___ ___
___________ ___ ___ ___ ___ (_____+_____+_____)=(______) ___ (______) ___ ___

manual dexterity: best ___ 2nd best ___ DexCP =(______)

NATURAL ARMOR Abs Cvr AbsCP CP
_____________________________ ___ ___ x (_____)=(______)
_____________________________ ___ ___ x (_____)=(______)

EQUIPMENT special modifiers Qty Mass Heft Cmb Reach Cvr Abs Power Shp
_______________ _________________ ___ ____ ____ ___ _____ ___ ___ ___-___ ___
_______________ _________________ ___ ____ ____ ___ _____ ___ ___ ___-___ ___
_______________ _________________ ___ ____ ____ ___ _____ ___ ___ ___-___ ___
_______________ _________________ ___ ____ ____ ___ _____ ___ ___ ___-___ ___
_______________ _________________ ___ ____ ____ ___ _____ ___ ___ ___-___ ___
_______________ _________________ ___ ____ ____ ___ _____ ___ ___ ___-___ ___

STUN | DAMAGE
|
|
|

===Build Replaced by Variance===

:Should it be called "variance" or "variability"?

Templates have an average length, average mass and variance (none, low, medium or high.) If variance has a CP value, it might be something like -200 CP for no variance, -100 CP for low variance, 0 CP for medium variance and +100 CP for high variance.

Characters have 7 length/reach options which also affect mass, agility, health and power: tiny, very small, small, average, big, very big and huge. Characters have 3 mass/agility options: fast, normal and slow; 3 health options: fragile, normal and tough; and 3 power options: weak, normal and powerful.
Characters whose templates have no variance can only have average length/mass, normal mass/agility, power and health. All of the agility, power and health options are available to characters whose templates have low, medium or high variance.

variance high medium low low low medium high

length option tiny very small small average big very big huge
length/reach -30% -20% -10% average +10% +20% +30%

fast mass -70% -50% -30% -10% +20% +50% +100%
agility +3 +2 +1 +1 +1 0 -1

normal mass -60% -40% -20% average +30% +100% +200%
agility +2 +1 0 0 0 -1 -2

slow mass -40% -10% +20% +50% +100% +200% +400%
agility +1 +0 -1 -1 -1 -2 -3

fragile -7 -5 -3 -1 +1 +3 +5
normal health -6 -4 -2 0 +2 +4 +6
tough -5 -3 -1 +1 +3 +5 +7

weak -4 -3 -2 -1 0 +1 +2
normal power -3 -2 -1 0 +1 +2 +3
powerful -2 -1 0 +1 +2 +3 +4

variance | high | medium | low | low | low | medium |high
______________|______|___________|______|_______|______|_________|____
length option | tiny |very small |small |average| big |very big |huge
length/reach | -30% | -20% |-10% |average| +10% | +20% |+30%
______________|______|___________|______|_______|______|_________|____
fast mass | -70% | -50% |-30% | -10% | +20% | +50% |+100%
agility| +3 | +2 | +1 | +1 | +1 | 0 | -1
______________|______|___________|______|_______|______|_________|____
normal mass | -60% | -40% |-20% |average| +30% | +100% |+200%
agility| +2 | +1 | 0 | 0 | 0 | -1 | -2
______________|______|___________|______|_______|______|_________|____
slow mass | -40% | -10% |+20% | +50% |+100% | +200% |+400%
agility| +1 | +0 | -1 | -1 | -1 | -2 | -3
______________|______|___________|______|_______|______|_________|____
fragile | -7 | -5 | -3 | -1 | +1 | +3 | +5
normal health | -6 | -4 | -2 | 0 | +2 | +4 | +6
tough | -5 | -3 | -1 | +1 | +3 | +5 | +7
______________|______|___________|______|_______|______|_________|____
weak | -4 | -3 | -2 | -1 | 0 | +1 | +2
normal power | -3 | -2 | -1 | 0 | +1 | +2 | +3
powerful | -2 | -1 | 0 | +1 | +2 | +3 | +4

Reach, agility, health and power modifiers have a character point value.

200 CP x (character reach - template reach) see equipment CP
+ agility CP for agility modifier (-3 to +3) see template CP
+ health CP for health modifier (-7 to +7) see template CP
+ power CP for power modifier (-4 to +4) see template CP

===Compact Character Sheet===

Name _________________________ ______ kg ______ m
Age _______ Sex _______ Template _________________
Occupation(s) ____________________________________
Abilities ________________________________________
Agi Spd Hlth Pwr ground water air climbing
___ ___ ____ ___ _____ m _____ m _____ m _____ m
Equipment special Qty Cmb Rch Cvr Abs Pwr Shp
______________ _______ ___ ___ ___ ___ ___ ___ ___
______________ _______ ___ ___ ___ ___ ___ ___ ___
______________ _______ ___ ___ ___ ___ ___ ___ ___
______________ _______ ___ ___ ___ ___ ___ ___ ___
______________ _______ ___ ___ ___ ___ ___ ___ ___
Stun | Damage

The compact character sheet is for characters who will not change, but need combat stats and a few other abilities and some description. It is roughly the size of a 3x5 card, but to have even thin margins it would need to be printed in a 9 pt font. Do not list abilities whose only purpose is contributing to combat bonuses on the equipment list. Mass and heft have been removed from the equipment list. If a weapon is unwieldy, put "unwieldy" in the special column. Half health and half power have been removed.

An even more compact character sheet would be a list of information all on one line, separated by commas with all unnecessary labels and blank space removed: Modre, 60 kg, 1.0 m, male Sabretooth Penguin Robber, 5 swimming, 3 one-handed weapons, 1 fishing, 2 craftsmanship, 4 Agi, 2 Spd, 5 Health, 2-4 Pwr, 2 m ground, 10 m water, 1 m climb, 3 claws and teeth (0.5 m, 4 Cmb, 2-4 Pwr, 3 Shp), Ice Blade (1.5 m, 7 Cmb, 3-6 Pwr, 2 Shp)

===Compact Template===

Template _____________________ ______ CP
Abilities ________________________________
______ kg ___ Agi ___ Spd ___ Hlth ___ Pwr
______ m _____________ var. ____________
Qty Natural Weapons Reach Shp Dex
___ _______________________ ____ m ___ ___
___ _______________________ ____ m ___ ___
___ _______________________ ____ m ___ ___
Natural Armor Abs Cvr
__________________________________ ___ ___
__________________________________ ___ ___

This compact form can be used by characters whose templates won't change.

An even more compact form would be a list of information all on one line, separated by commas, with extra blank space and unnecessary labels removed: Sabretooth Penguin, 1200 CP, 3 swimming, 40 - 90 kg, 0.75 - 1.5 m height, low var., 4 Agi, 2 Spd, 0 Health, 4 Pwr, 3 claws and teeth (0.5 m, 3 Shp, 0 Dex)

==Mechanical vs. Organic Characters==

Being a mechanical character is an ability with a special CP of 0, no levels and no modifiers. A mechanical character does not heal, but can be repaired using craftsmanship and abilities which allow characters to modify mechanical characters. Mechanical characters can be repaired more quickly than an organic character heals. Mechanical characters do not require surgery rolls when they are modified.

Characters who do not have this ability are called organic characters. The main difference between mechanical and organic characters is how they are affected by trauma. (A very complex robot which can heal itself but can be easily destroyed by an attempted modification might not have the mechanical character ability.) Mechanical characters do not decay as quickly as organic creatures, so they can be easier to resuscitate from fatal injuries.

:There is a question as to weather or not the characteristic of being organic vs. being mechanical should have a Character Point value. For the time being we are just trying to balance out the advantages so that this characteristic is character-point neutral.

:How fast can mechanical characters be repaired? Are repairs more like modifications or like medicine/healing rolls? If mechanical character ability had a level it might be a bonus to being repaired.

:Do mechanical characters recover from stun like normal characters? I would lean toward "yes" as there are lots of temporary mechanical problems even a simple machine can work out itself, especially autonomous and semi-autonomous robots with redundant systems (NASA probes often recover themselves after the ground crew writes them off as down for the count, and they usually have minor problems which require adjustment and slow down the mission but don't cause lasting damage.)

==Combat Abilities==

Currently we only have two kinds of combat abilities:

;Weapon Proficiency: Abilities which modify combat modifiers are weapon proficiencies, because you have one combat modifier per weapon. Weapon Proficiencies can be as specific as a single weapon or as broad as you like (you could have a weapon proficiency which applies to all weapons) but they apply to any use of the weapon's combat modifier.

;Athletic Abilities: Athletic abilities improve your health, allowing you to fight longer even when you get hurt. Your best two athletic abilities affect your health, and it doesn't really matter which athletic abilities they are.

The most obvious thing missing is abilities that affect ''how'' you fight with a given weapon - abilities which give you an advantage to using certain classes of actions over others. For example experience competing in wrestling might improve your grappling more than it improves your striking ability. How would these abilities work? Would they add another column to the equipment list, or would they give you special modifiers (like the Grp, Atk, Par modifiers.) or would they be added directly to combat rolls? Would we have some combat modifiers be independent of the equipment list, and not affected by which weapon you use?

==Limitations==

We need to expand the coverage of limitations to character creation and development in the Game Design section.

* CP Allowance (How much CP for heroic or super-heroic characters?)
* Sex (based on template? Should templates have a "sexes" property?)
* Age
* Templates (PC vs. NPC)
* Build (depends on templates. Dogs vary more than cats, and birds even less)
* Missing limbs
* Disabilities
** A game should allow no disabilities beyond those built into the templates, or at least have limitations like one disability per character, no more than -1000 CP of disabilities, and only those disabilities that have unavoidable consequences.
** A game with a GM may have a bigger disability list because he GM can moderate the role-playing of those disabilities. Players need the GM's permission to give characters disabilities beyond template disabilities. The GM may have stricter limitations than the game requires, not allow some disabilities, or decide on a case-by-case basis.
* Ability levels (character creation and training)
* Equipment (character creation and shopping)
* Occupations?
** limitations are basically built-in to occupations
** but the occupations section feels like it needs work
* Reach? (requires a rule allowing characters to have more or less reach than their template)

==Ability Checks in Combat==

At times a GM might ask players to perform an ability check during a round of combat. My opinion is that players should not add their ability bonus to the check unless they specifically have established that they are using the ability. If the check is called before the player's turn and the player stated the use of the ability before the beginning of combat. The player would be allowed to add their ability bonus. If the check is called after the player's turn then the player would not be allowed to add their ability bonus the unless they specifically use at least a quick action to use the ability. --[[User:Ulrich|ulrich]] 11:00, 2005 Jul 2 (CEST)

:A classic example is watching out for traps during combat. If the traps are so well hidden that an ability roll is required, at least one of the PCs should spend a whole turn looking for traps instead of fighting. If the story requires the characters to fall into a trap, it should be impossible to find (or impossible to avoid if you do find it.) If this is not a good time in the story for the characters to fall into a trap, or if the characters have been specifically looking for traps as they go along, it doesn't make sense to ask them to make routine checks for traps. --[[User:SerpLord|SerpLord]] 15:17, 8 December 2005 (CET)

Talk:Mano a Mano

2007-11-29T23:27:06Z

206.129.215.230: /* Build Replaced by Variance */

==New Character Sheet, Template and Build system==

This character sheet is intended to serve for both characters and templates. It should have everything you need to modify a character (including template modifications) except for information like special CP which is part of the ability list.

NAME ________________________ AGE _______ SEX ______ TEMPLATE _______________

OCCUPATION(S) _______________________________________________________________

Grip _____ ABILITIES Template Character
Carrying Capacity _____ kg and disabilities CP Mod CP Lvl Mod
Equipment Mass _____ kg ___________________ (______) ___ (______) ___ ___
Encumbrance _____ ___________________ (______) ___ (______) ___ ___
Speed-Encumbrance _____ ___________________ (______) ___ (______) ___ ___
Stride _____ ___________________ (______) ___ (______) ___ ___
ground movement _____ m ___________________ (______) ___ (______) ___ ___
water movement _____ m ___________________ (______) ___ (______) ___ ___
air movement _____ m ___________________ (______) ___ (______) ___ ___
climbing movement _____ m ___________________ (______) ___ (______) ___ ___
___________________ (______) ___ (______) ___ ___
Template CP (_______) ___________________ (______) ___ (______) ___ ___
Character CP (_______) ___________________ (______) ___ (______) ___ ___
Total CP (_______) ___________________ (______) ___ (______) ___ ___

Template Character Template Character
Mass ________ kg +/-___% ________ kg CP Mod CP Lvl Mod
Length ________ m +/-___% ________ m Agility (______) ___ (______) ___ ___
Type __________ Speed (______) ___ ___
Var. __________ Health (______) ___ (______) ___ ___
Power (______) ___ (______) ___ ___

NATURAL Template Character
WEAPONS Dex Qty Rch Shp QtyCP RchCP ShpCP CP Rch CP Cmb Pwr
___________ ___ ___ ___ ___ (_____+_____+_____)=(______) ___ (______) ___ ___
___________ ___ ___ ___ ___ (_____+_____+_____)=(______) ___ (______) ___ ___
___________ ___ ___ ___ ___ (_____+_____+_____)=(______) ___ (______) ___ ___

manual dexterity: best ___ 2nd best ___ DexCP =(______)

NATURAL ARMOR Abs Cvr AbsCP CP
_____________________________ ___ ___ x (_____)=(______)
_____________________________ ___ ___ x (_____)=(______)

EQUIPMENT special modifiers Qty Mass Heft Cmb Reach Cvr Abs Power Shp
_______________ _________________ ___ ____ ____ ___ _____ ___ ___ ___-___ ___
_______________ _________________ ___ ____ ____ ___ _____ ___ ___ ___-___ ___
_______________ _________________ ___ ____ ____ ___ _____ ___ ___ ___-___ ___
_______________ _________________ ___ ____ ____ ___ _____ ___ ___ ___-___ ___
_______________ _________________ ___ ____ ____ ___ _____ ___ ___ ___-___ ___
_______________ _________________ ___ ____ ____ ___ _____ ___ ___ ___-___ ___

STUN | DAMAGE
|
|
|

===Build Replaced by Variance===

:Should it be called "variance" or "variability"?

Templates have an average length, average mass and variance (none, low, medium or high.) If variance has a CP value, it might be something like -200 CP for no variance, -100 CP for low variance, 0 CP for medium variance and +100 CP for high variance.

Characters have 7 length/reach options which also affect mass, agility, health and power: tiny, very small, small, average, big, very big and huge. Characters have 3 mass/agility options: fast, normal and slow; 3 health options: fragile, normal and tough; and 3 power options: weak, normal and powerful.
Characters whose templates have no variance can only have average length/mass, normal mass/agility, power and health. All of the agility, power and health options are available to characters whose templates have low, medium or high variance.

variance high medium low low low medium high

length option tiny very small small average big very big huge
length/reach -30% -20% -10% average +10% +20% +30%

fast mass -70% -50% -30% -10% +20% +50% +100%
agility +3 +2 +1 +1 +1 0 -1

normal mass -60% -40% -20% average +30% +100% +200%
agility +2 +1 0 0 0 -1 -2

slow mass -40% -10% +20% +50% +100% +200% +400%
agility +1 +0 -1 -1 -1 -2 -3

fragile -7 -5 -3 -1 +1 +3 +5
normal health -6 -4 -2 0 +2 +4 +6
tough -5 -3 -1 +1 +3 +5 +7

weak -4 -3 -2 -1 0 +1 +2
normal power -3 -2 -1 0 +1 +2 +3
powerful -2 -1 0 +1 +2 +3 +4

variance | high | medium | low | low | low | medium |high
______________|______|___________|______|_______|______|_________|____
length option | tiny |very small |small |average| big |very big |huge
length/reach | -30% | -20% |-10% |average| +10% | +20% |+30%
______________|______|___________|______|_______|______|_________|____
fast mass -70% -50% -30% -10% +20% +50% +100%
agility +3 +2 +1 +1 +1 0 -1

normal mass -60% -40% -20% average +30% +100% +200%
agility +2 +1 0 0 0 -1 -2

slow mass -40% -10% +20% +50% +100% +200% +400%
agility +1 +0 -1 -1 -1 -2 -3

fragile -7 -5 -3 -1 +1 +3 +5
normal health -6 -4 -2 0 +2 +4 +6
tough -5 -3 -1 +1 +3 +5 +7

weak -4 -3 -2 -1 0 +1 +2
normal power -3 -2 -1 0 +1 +2 +3
powerful -2 -1 0 +1 +2 +3 +4

Reach, agility, health and power modifiers have a character point value.

200 CP x (character reach - template reach) see equipment CP
+ agility CP for agility modifier (-3 to +3) see template CP
+ health CP for health modifier (-7 to +7) see template CP
+ power CP for power modifier (-4 to +4) see template CP

===Compact Character Sheet===

Name _________________________ ______ kg ______ m
Age _______ Sex _______ Template _________________
Occupation(s) ____________________________________
Abilities ________________________________________
Agi Spd Hlth Pwr ground water air climbing
___ ___ ____ ___ _____ m _____ m _____ m _____ m
Equipment special Qty Cmb Rch Cvr Abs Pwr Shp
______________ _______ ___ ___ ___ ___ ___ ___ ___
______________ _______ ___ ___ ___ ___ ___ ___ ___
______________ _______ ___ ___ ___ ___ ___ ___ ___
______________ _______ ___ ___ ___ ___ ___ ___ ___
______________ _______ ___ ___ ___ ___ ___ ___ ___
Stun | Damage

The compact character sheet is for characters who will not change, but need combat stats and a few other abilities and some description. It is roughly the size of a 3x5 card, but to have even thin margins it would need to be printed in a 9 pt font. Do not list abilities whose only purpose is contributing to combat bonuses on the equipment list. Mass and heft have been removed from the equipment list. If a weapon is unwieldy, put "unwieldy" in the special column. Half health and half power have been removed.

An even more compact character sheet would be a list of information all on one line, separated by commas with all unnecessary labels and blank space removed: Modre, 60 kg, 1.0 m, male Sabretooth Penguin Robber, 5 swimming, 3 one-handed weapons, 1 fishing, 2 craftsmanship, 4 Agi, 2 Spd, 5 Health, 2-4 Pwr, 2 m ground, 10 m water, 1 m climb, 3 claws and teeth (0.5 m, 4 Cmb, 2-4 Pwr, 3 Shp), Ice Blade (1.5 m, 7 Cmb, 3-6 Pwr, 2 Shp)

===Compact Template===

Template _____________________ ______ CP
Abilities ________________________________
______ kg ___ Agi ___ Spd ___ Hlth ___ Pwr
______ m _____________ var. ____________
Qty Natural Weapons Reach Shp Dex
___ _______________________ ____ m ___ ___
___ _______________________ ____ m ___ ___
___ _______________________ ____ m ___ ___
Natural Armor Abs Cvr
__________________________________ ___ ___
__________________________________ ___ ___

This compact form can be used by characters whose templates won't change.

An even more compact form would be a list of information all on one line, separated by commas, with extra blank space and unnecessary labels removed: Sabretooth Penguin, 1200 CP, 3 swimming, 40 - 90 kg, 0.75 - 1.5 m height, low var., 4 Agi, 2 Spd, 0 Health, 4 Pwr, 3 claws and teeth (0.5 m, 3 Shp, 0 Dex)

==Mechanical vs. Organic Characters==

Being a mechanical character is an ability with a special CP of 0, no levels and no modifiers. A mechanical character does not heal, but can be repaired using craftsmanship and abilities which allow characters to modify mechanical characters. Mechanical characters can be repaired more quickly than an organic character heals. Mechanical characters do not require surgery rolls when they are modified.

Characters who do not have this ability are called organic characters. The main difference between mechanical and organic characters is how they are affected by trauma. (A very complex robot which can heal itself but can be easily destroyed by an attempted modification might not have the mechanical character ability.) Mechanical characters do not decay as quickly as organic creatures, so they can be easier to resuscitate from fatal injuries.

:There is a question as to weather or not the characteristic of being organic vs. being mechanical should have a Character Point value. For the time being we are just trying to balance out the advantages so that this characteristic is character-point neutral.

:How fast can mechanical characters be repaired? Are repairs more like modifications or like medicine/healing rolls? If mechanical character ability had a level it might be a bonus to being repaired.

:Do mechanical characters recover from stun like normal characters? I would lean toward "yes" as there are lots of temporary mechanical problems even a simple machine can work out itself, especially autonomous and semi-autonomous robots with redundant systems (NASA probes often recover themselves after the ground crew writes them off as down for the count, and they usually have minor problems which require adjustment and slow down the mission but don't cause lasting damage.)

==Combat Abilities==

Currently we only have two kinds of combat abilities:

;Weapon Proficiency: Abilities which modify combat modifiers are weapon proficiencies, because you have one combat modifier per weapon. Weapon Proficiencies can be as specific as a single weapon or as broad as you like (you could have a weapon proficiency which applies to all weapons) but they apply to any use of the weapon's combat modifier.

;Athletic Abilities: Athletic abilities improve your health, allowing you to fight longer even when you get hurt. Your best two athletic abilities affect your health, and it doesn't really matter which athletic abilities they are.

The most obvious thing missing is abilities that affect ''how'' you fight with a given weapon - abilities which give you an advantage to using certain classes of actions over others. For example experience competing in wrestling might improve your grappling more than it improves your striking ability. How would these abilities work? Would they add another column to the equipment list, or would they give you special modifiers (like the Grp, Atk, Par modifiers.) or would they be added directly to combat rolls? Would we have some combat modifiers be independent of the equipment list, and not affected by which weapon you use?

==Limitations==

We need to expand the coverage of limitations to character creation and development in the Game Design section.

* CP Allowance (How much CP for heroic or super-heroic characters?)
* Sex (based on template? Should templates have a "sexes" property?)
* Age
* Templates (PC vs. NPC)
* Build (depends on templates. Dogs vary more than cats, and birds even less)
* Missing limbs
* Disabilities
** A game should allow no disabilities beyond those built into the templates, or at least have limitations like one disability per character, no more than -1000 CP of disabilities, and only those disabilities that have unavoidable consequences.
** A game with a GM may have a bigger disability list because he GM can moderate the role-playing of those disabilities. Players need the GM's permission to give characters disabilities beyond template disabilities. The GM may have stricter limitations than the game requires, not allow some disabilities, or decide on a case-by-case basis.
* Ability levels (character creation and training)
* Equipment (character creation and shopping)
* Occupations?
** limitations are basically built-in to occupations
** but the occupations section feels like it needs work
* Reach? (requires a rule allowing characters to have more or less reach than their template)

==Ability Checks in Combat==

At times a GM might ask players to perform an ability check during a round of combat. My opinion is that players should not add their ability bonus to the check unless they specifically have established that they are using the ability. If the check is called before the player's turn and the player stated the use of the ability before the beginning of combat. The player would be allowed to add their ability bonus. If the check is called after the player's turn then the player would not be allowed to add their ability bonus the unless they specifically use at least a quick action to use the ability. --[[User:Ulrich|ulrich]] 11:00, 2005 Jul 2 (CEST)

:A classic example is watching out for traps during combat. If the traps are so well hidden that an ability roll is required, at least one of the PCs should spend a whole turn looking for traps instead of fighting. If the story requires the characters to fall into a trap, it should be impossible to find (or impossible to avoid if you do find it.) If this is not a good time in the story for the characters to fall into a trap, or if the characters have been specifically looking for traps as they go along, it doesn't make sense to ask them to make routine checks for traps. --[[User:SerpLord|SerpLord]] 15:17, 8 December 2005 (CET)