RPGnet - User contributions [en]

Talk:Mano a Mano

2008-01-16T01:31:49Z

75.165.109.53: /* Combos and Counters */

==No More Success Level or Half-Success==

* Getting rid of Success Level and Half Success speeds up and simplifies the system, especially in combat.
* Without Success Level and Half Success we can have an optional fractional ability level rule.
* All the power of sharp weapons becomes damage. Half the power of blunt weapon attacks, rounded down, is damage and the rest is stun. All the power of padded weapons is stun.
* Compare the defense die roll to cover. If the roll is not higher than the cover, the armor blocks the attack, reducing the attack's power by the armor's absorption.
* A character's climbing movement determines how fast he can move while climbing. While a character climbs he can move and perform one quick action per turn. Each turn - whether or not the character moves - make a success roll using the character's climbing ability modifier vs. the difficulty of clinging to the surface or structure the character is climbing. If the character performs an action, add 2 to the difficulty. If the character is moves but does not perform an action, add 1 to the difficulty. If the character is not moving or performing an action, add 2 to his roll. If the character is not successful he looses his grip and falls.

==Combos and Counters==
* Should [[Mano a Mano:Rounds]] & [[Mano a Mano:Maneuvering]] be consolidated?
** IMHO, split [[Mano a Mano:Rounds]] into [[Mano a Mano:Rounds]] and [[Mano a Mano:Actions]], and move [[Mano a Mano:Maneuvering]] to immediately before or after [[Mano a Mano:Movement]]. Then we can think about whether we want to combine any of these sections of the action rules.
***The separation between these sections is challenging when players are trying to figure out what options are available during the combat round.
* Roll for defense against each attack in a combo separately.
* A counterattack happens just before the attack it counters. The counterattack can prevent a strong attack or combo by doing enough stun or damage so the attacker's stun plus damage is greater than half of his health, forcing them to do quick action instead.
* Where are the "combo rules for attacking multiple targets"? Do these rules still exist?
** I doubt it. Do we want them or need them?
*** Being able to attack multiple characters on a single turn seemed really important to you when we were working on MaM 2007. Combos are the only thing in the system that allow this right now (as they should be.)
* We should say the counterattack is limited to quick actions when the counterattacking character's damage and stun together is equal to half his health or more.

==New Terminology==
* Replace "aimed or flanking attack" with "strategic attack." ("Strategic" is a synonym for Aimed and Flanking in this context, not just Tricky.) This a powerful action that gives the character a +1 roll bonus to land a single half-power strike.
* Replace "defense" (a rule that was never actually tested because it was vaguely named and an exact replica of the outreaching rule and was therefore necessarily excluded,) with "slipping attack" and "Evasion" (Evasion is what was used instead in testing):
**Slipping Attack (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slipping) is a powerful action that gives a +1 to defense until the attacker's next turn, and if successful delivers a half power strike. (In Boxing a slip can be down, towards, away, or to either side, so "slipping" should work narratively for zero G, Swimming, and Flying. Slipping is often complimented by footwork, so that "slipping" generally covers defensive footwork specifically.)
**Evasion is a quick action that cannot be used in a combo. If the character's stun and damage together is less than half of his health, Evasion gives the character a +2 to defense until his next turn. Otherwise the character gets a +1 until his next turn.

==Getting Rid of Negative Health==

It seems like everyone needs more health. See the [[Mano a Mano:Size Table]]. But increasing average health does not remove the need for negative health. Negative health lets us make creatures with less health than their athletic ability level(s). To remove this need we could change or remove the effect of athletic abilities on health. For example we could say your athletic abilities cannot give you more than twice your template health, then use a size table like this:

{| style="text-align:center"
| rowspan="10" width="200" valign="top" align="left" |
;Size Table: Health, agility and power are all related to a template's size. The following guidelines should help guide template creation, but some creatures will be stronger or weaker, quicker or clumsier than their mass would suggest.
! Health !! style="width:5em" | Agility !! Power !! style="width:7em" | Mass !! align="left" | Examples
|-
| 0 || 8 || 0 || < 10 g || align="left" | hummingbird, small bug
|-
| 1 || 7 || 1 || 10-999 g || align="left" | rat, mouse, largest insects
|-
| 2 || 6 || 2 || 1-9 kg || align="left" | cat, fox, rabbit
|-
| 3 || 5 || 3 || 10-39 kg || align="left" | dog, coyote
|-
| 4 || 4 || 4 || 40-199 kg || align="left" | human, deer, wolf
|-
| 6 || 3 || 6 || 200-999 kg || align="left" | cow, lion, horse, bear, moose
|-
| 10 || 2 || 10 || 1-9 tonnes || align="left" | giraffe, hippo, rhino, elephant
|-
| 20 || 1 || 15 || 10-99 tonnes || align="left" | largest dinosaurs
|-
| 30 || 0 || 20 || > 100 tonnes || align="left" | largest whales
|}

On the other hand if we drop the contribution of athletic abilities to health, we could allow the character health modifier (the same one used by the new build system) to be developed like an ability. (Using a size table similar to the one above) This would reduce the value of athletic abilities, so we might consider lumping them more or making them more useful. For example, acrobatics can be defined broadly enough to include climbing (there is significant overlap, such as rope climbing, pole climbing, mast climbing and parkour.)

While we are at it we could make all of the template pseudo-abilities developable: speed, agility, health and power, and get rid of strength and grip (which are basically power synonyms). In other words we would expand "build" development from character creation into ongoing character development, leading to the following new build rules:

;Personal Speed: A character can have increased or decreased speed if his template has medium or high variance. He can have a -1 or +1 speed modifier if his template speed is greater than 1. If his template speed is 1 or less he can have half or double his template speed. Reduced character speed is worth -1000 CP and increased character speed is worth +1000 CP.

{| style="text-align:center"
| align="left" valign="top" rowspan="8" width="200" |
;Personal Agility: A character can have -1 or +1 agility if his template has low, medium or high variance, -2 or +2 agility if his template has medium or high variance, and -3 or +3 agility if his template has high variance.
! Agility !! CP
|-
| -3 || -1200
|-
| -2 || -600
|-
| -1 || -200
|-
| 0 || 0
|-
| +1 || 200
|-
| +2 || 600
|-
| +3 || 1200
|}

;Personal Health: A character can have as little as 0 total health, but even very fragile characters usually have at least half of their template health. A character can have personal health up to half of his template health with low variance, as high as his template health with medium variance and up to twice his template health with high variance. Each point of health is worth 200 CP. Personal power can be negative, but it can never be low enough to reduce a character's total health below 0.

{| style="text-align:center"
| align="left" valign="top" rowspan="16" width="200" |
;Personal Power: A character can have as little as 0 total power, but even very weak characters usually have at least half of their template's power. A character can have personal power up to half of his template power with low variance, as high as his template power with medium variance and up to twice his template power with high variance.

:If a character has less than -5 personal power, each point of power below -4 decreases the character's personal power CP by 1000 CP. Personal power can never be low enough to reduce a character's total power below 0.
! Power !! CP
|-
| -4 || -2000
|-
| -3 || -1200
|-
| -2 || -600
|-
| -1 || -200
|-
| 0 || 0
|-
| 1 || 200
|-
| 2 || 600
|-
| 3 || 1200
|-
| 4 || 2000
|-
| 5 || 3000
|-
| 6 || 4200
|-
| 7 || 5600
|-
| 8 || 7200
|-
| 9 || 9000
|-
| 10 || 11000
|}

;Personal Mass: A character can have from -30% to +50% his template's average mass with low variance, from half (-50%) to double (+100%) his template's average mass with medium variance and from a third (-70%) to triple (+200%) his template's average mass with high variance.

;Personal Length and Reach: A character can have from -10% to +10% of his template's average length and reach with low variance, from -20% to +30% of his template's average length and reach with medium variance and from -30% to +50% of his template's average length and reach with high variance. Every meter of reach is worth 200 CP, every tenth of a meter of reach is worth 20 CP, and every centimeter of reach is worth 2 CP. For example, if the template reach of a weapon is 1.5 m and the character reach of the weapon is 1.8 m, then the character reach CP is 60. (1.8 m - 1.5 m = 0.3 m which is 30 cm.)

Big characters should have more health, power, mass, length and reach, while smaller characters should have less health, power, mass, length and reach. The following table is a guideline for characters with typical mass, length, health and power relationships, but characters are not required to fit these categories:

{|
! align="left" | Size
! width="5" |
! align="left" | Health, Power and Mass
! width="5" |
! align="left" | Length and Reach
|-
| tiny || || less than half average || || over 20% less than average
|-
| very small || || between 1/3 and 2/3 average || || between 10% and 30% less than average
|-
| small || || between half average and average || || between 20% less than average and average
|-
| normal || || between 2/3 average and 50% more than average || || between 10% less and 10% more than average
|-
| big || || between average and twice average || || between average and 30% more than average
|-
| very big || || between 50% more than average and three times average || || between 10% and 50% more than average
|-
| huge || || more than twice average || || over 30% more than average
|}

==Mechanical vs. Organic Characters==

Being a mechanical character is an ability with a special CP of 0, no levels and no modifiers. A mechanical character does not heal, but can be repaired using craftsmanship and abilities which allow characters to modify mechanical characters. Mechanical characters can be repaired more quickly than an organic character heals. Mechanical characters do not require surgery rolls when they are modified.

Characters who do not have this ability are called organic characters. The main difference between mechanical and organic characters is how they are affected by trauma. (A very complex robot which can heal itself but can be easily destroyed by an attempted modification might not have the mechanical character ability.) Mechanical characters do not decay as quickly as organic creatures, so they can be easier to resuscitate from fatal injuries.

:There is a question as to weather or not the characteristic of being organic vs. being mechanical should have a Character Point value. For the time being we are just trying to balance out the advantages so that this characteristic is character-point neutral.

:How fast can mechanical characters be repaired? Are repairs more like modifications or like medicine/healing rolls? If mechanical character ability had a level it might be a bonus to being repaired.

:Do mechanical characters recover from stun like normal characters? I would lean toward "yes" as there are lots of temporary mechanical problems even a simple machine can work out itself, especially autonomous and semi-autonomous robots with redundant systems (NASA probes often recover themselves after the ground crew writes them off as down for the count, and they usually have minor problems which require adjustment and slow down the mission but don't cause lasting damage.)

==Combat Abilities==

Currently we only have two kinds of combat abilities:

;Weapon Proficiency: Abilities which modify combat modifiers are weapon proficiencies, because you have one combat modifier per weapon. Weapon Proficiencies can be as specific as a single weapon or as broad as you like (you could have a weapon proficiency which applies to all weapons) but they apply to any use of the weapon's combat modifier.

;Athletic Abilities: Athletic abilities improve your health, allowing you to fight longer even when you get hurt. Your best two athletic abilities affect your health, and it doesn't really matter which athletic abilities they are.

The most obvious thing missing is abilities that affect ''how'' you fight with a given weapon - abilities which give you an advantage to using certain classes of actions over others. For example experience competing in wrestling might improve your grappling more than it improves your striking ability. How would these abilities work? Would they add another column to the equipment list, or would they give you special modifiers (like the Grp, Atk, Par modifiers.) or would they be added directly to combat rolls? Would we have some combat modifiers be independent of the equipment list, and not affected by which weapon you use?

==Limitations==

We need to expand the coverage of limitations. Mostly these are setting/game design decisions that affect character creation and development.

* Template limitations not currently on the template:
** Sexes (based on template? Should templates have a "sexes" property?)
** Age limits (minimum age described by template, maximum age limits)
** natural abilities: I removed the following text from game design/templates/abilities: "If the ability cannot be improved by exercise or experience or can only be improved to a certain level, the ability should have a '''limit''' (Lim). This limit is the maximum number of ability levels a character of this template can develop in this ability." It seems like there are some circumstances where it would be appropriate to have this limit, for example a character might be a robot which cannot be trained to do tasks it has not already been programmed to do.
* CP Allowance
** How much CP for heroic characters?
** How much CP for super-heroic characters?
* Equipment
** starting equipment (character creation)
** shopping (character development)
* PCs vs. NPCs
** templates
** occupations
** abilities?
** equipment
* Character ability level limits?
** character creation
** training
** occupation-limited abilities?

The rest are GM-preference/style/playability/best-practices limitations:

* Maimed characters/missing limbs - the rules currently say you need the GM's permission.
* Disabilities
** A game should allow no disabilities beyond those built into the templates, or at least have limitations like one disability per character, no more than -1000 CP of disabilities, and only those disabilities that have unavoidable consequences.
** A game with a GM may have a bigger disability list because he GM can moderate the role-playing of those disabilities. Players need the GM's permission to give characters disabilities beyond template disabilities. The GM may have stricter limitations than the game requires, not allow some disabilities, or decide on a case-by-case basis.

==Ability Checks in Combat==

At times a GM might ask players to perform an ability check during a round of combat. My opinion is that players should not add their ability bonus to the check unless they specifically have established that they are using the ability. If the check is called before the player's turn and the player stated the use of the ability before the beginning of combat. The player would be allowed to add their ability bonus. If the check is called after the player's turn then the player would not be allowed to add their ability bonus the unless they specifically use at least a quick action to use the ability. --[[User:Ulrich|ulrich]] 11:00, 2005 Jul 2 (CEST)

:A classic example is watching out for traps during combat. If the traps are so well hidden that an ability roll is required, at least one of the PCs should spend a whole turn looking for traps instead of fighting. If the story requires the characters to fall into a trap, it should be impossible to find (or impossible to avoid if you do find it.) If this is not a good time in the story for the characters to fall into a trap, or if the characters have been specifically looking for traps as they go along, it doesn't make sense to ask them to make routine checks for traps. --[[User:SerpLord|SerpLord]] 15:17, 8 December 2005 (CET)

Talk:Mano a Mano

2008-01-16T01:31:19Z

75.165.109.53: /* Combos and Counters */

==No More Success Level or Half-Success==

* Getting rid of Success Level and Half Success speeds up and simplifies the system, especially in combat.
* Without Success Level and Half Success we can have an optional fractional ability level rule.
* All the power of sharp weapons becomes damage. Half the power of blunt weapon attacks, rounded down, is damage and the rest is stun. All the power of padded weapons is stun.
* Compare the defense die roll to cover. If the roll is not higher than the cover, the armor blocks the attack, reducing the attack's power by the armor's absorption.
* A character's climbing movement determines how fast he can move while climbing. While a character climbs he can move and perform one quick action per turn. Each turn - whether or not the character moves - make a success roll using the character's climbing ability modifier vs. the difficulty of clinging to the surface or structure the character is climbing. If the character performs an action, add 2 to the difficulty. If the character is moves but does not perform an action, add 1 to the difficulty. If the character is not moving or performing an action, add 2 to his roll. If the character is not successful he looses his grip and falls.

==Combos and Counters==
* Should [[Mano a Mano:Rounds]] & [[Mano a Mano:Maneuvering]] be consolidated?
** IMHO, split [[Mano a Mano:Rounds]] into [[Mano a Mano:Rounds]] and [[Mano a Mano:Actions]], and move [[Mano a Mano:Maneuvering]] to immediately before or after [[Mano a Mano:Movement]]. Then we can think about whether we want to combine any of these sections of the action rules.
***The separation between these sections is challenging when players are trying to figure out what options are available during the combat round. * Roll for defense against each attack in a combo separately.
* A counterattack happens just before the attack it counters. The counterattack can prevent a strong attack or combo by doing enough stun or damage so the attacker's stun plus damage is greater than half of his health, forcing them to do quick action instead.
* Where are the "combo rules for attacking multiple targets"? Do these rules still exist?
** I doubt it. Do we want them or need them?
*** Being able to attack multiple characters on a single turn seemed really important to you when we were working on MaM 2007. Combos are the only thing in the system that allow this right now (as they should be.)
* We should say the counterattack is limited to quick actions when the counterattacking character's damage and stun together is equal to half his health or more.

==New Terminology==
* Replace "aimed or flanking attack" with "strategic attack." ("Strategic" is a synonym for Aimed and Flanking in this context, not just Tricky.) This a powerful action that gives the character a +1 roll bonus to land a single half-power strike.
* Replace "defense" (a rule that was never actually tested because it was vaguely named and an exact replica of the outreaching rule and was therefore necessarily excluded,) with "slipping attack" and "Evasion" (Evasion is what was used instead in testing):
**Slipping Attack (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slipping) is a powerful action that gives a +1 to defense until the attacker's next turn, and if successful delivers a half power strike. (In Boxing a slip can be down, towards, away, or to either side, so "slipping" should work narratively for zero G, Swimming, and Flying. Slipping is often complimented by footwork, so that "slipping" generally covers defensive footwork specifically.)
**Evasion is a quick action that cannot be used in a combo. If the character's stun and damage together is less than half of his health, Evasion gives the character a +2 to defense until his next turn. Otherwise the character gets a +1 until his next turn.

==Getting Rid of Negative Health==

It seems like everyone needs more health. See the [[Mano a Mano:Size Table]]. But increasing average health does not remove the need for negative health. Negative health lets us make creatures with less health than their athletic ability level(s). To remove this need we could change or remove the effect of athletic abilities on health. For example we could say your athletic abilities cannot give you more than twice your template health, then use a size table like this:

{| style="text-align:center"
| rowspan="10" width="200" valign="top" align="left" |
;Size Table: Health, agility and power are all related to a template's size. The following guidelines should help guide template creation, but some creatures will be stronger or weaker, quicker or clumsier than their mass would suggest.
! Health !! style="width:5em" | Agility !! Power !! style="width:7em" | Mass !! align="left" | Examples
|-
| 0 || 8 || 0 || < 10 g || align="left" | hummingbird, small bug
|-
| 1 || 7 || 1 || 10-999 g || align="left" | rat, mouse, largest insects
|-
| 2 || 6 || 2 || 1-9 kg || align="left" | cat, fox, rabbit
|-
| 3 || 5 || 3 || 10-39 kg || align="left" | dog, coyote
|-
| 4 || 4 || 4 || 40-199 kg || align="left" | human, deer, wolf
|-
| 6 || 3 || 6 || 200-999 kg || align="left" | cow, lion, horse, bear, moose
|-
| 10 || 2 || 10 || 1-9 tonnes || align="left" | giraffe, hippo, rhino, elephant
|-
| 20 || 1 || 15 || 10-99 tonnes || align="left" | largest dinosaurs
|-
| 30 || 0 || 20 || > 100 tonnes || align="left" | largest whales
|}

On the other hand if we drop the contribution of athletic abilities to health, we could allow the character health modifier (the same one used by the new build system) to be developed like an ability. (Using a size table similar to the one above) This would reduce the value of athletic abilities, so we might consider lumping them more or making them more useful. For example, acrobatics can be defined broadly enough to include climbing (there is significant overlap, such as rope climbing, pole climbing, mast climbing and parkour.)

While we are at it we could make all of the template pseudo-abilities developable: speed, agility, health and power, and get rid of strength and grip (which are basically power synonyms). In other words we would expand "build" development from character creation into ongoing character development, leading to the following new build rules:

;Personal Speed: A character can have increased or decreased speed if his template has medium or high variance. He can have a -1 or +1 speed modifier if his template speed is greater than 1. If his template speed is 1 or less he can have half or double his template speed. Reduced character speed is worth -1000 CP and increased character speed is worth +1000 CP.

{| style="text-align:center"
| align="left" valign="top" rowspan="8" width="200" |
;Personal Agility: A character can have -1 or +1 agility if his template has low, medium or high variance, -2 or +2 agility if his template has medium or high variance, and -3 or +3 agility if his template has high variance.
! Agility !! CP
|-
| -3 || -1200
|-
| -2 || -600
|-
| -1 || -200
|-
| 0 || 0
|-
| +1 || 200
|-
| +2 || 600
|-
| +3 || 1200
|}

;Personal Health: A character can have as little as 0 total health, but even very fragile characters usually have at least half of their template health. A character can have personal health up to half of his template health with low variance, as high as his template health with medium variance and up to twice his template health with high variance. Each point of health is worth 200 CP. Personal power can be negative, but it can never be low enough to reduce a character's total health below 0.

{| style="text-align:center"
| align="left" valign="top" rowspan="16" width="200" |
;Personal Power: A character can have as little as 0 total power, but even very weak characters usually have at least half of their template's power. A character can have personal power up to half of his template power with low variance, as high as his template power with medium variance and up to twice his template power with high variance.

:If a character has less than -5 personal power, each point of power below -4 decreases the character's personal power CP by 1000 CP. Personal power can never be low enough to reduce a character's total power below 0.
! Power !! CP
|-
| -4 || -2000
|-
| -3 || -1200
|-
| -2 || -600
|-
| -1 || -200
|-
| 0 || 0
|-
| 1 || 200
|-
| 2 || 600
|-
| 3 || 1200
|-
| 4 || 2000
|-
| 5 || 3000
|-
| 6 || 4200
|-
| 7 || 5600
|-
| 8 || 7200
|-
| 9 || 9000
|-
| 10 || 11000
|}

;Personal Mass: A character can have from -30% to +50% his template's average mass with low variance, from half (-50%) to double (+100%) his template's average mass with medium variance and from a third (-70%) to triple (+200%) his template's average mass with high variance.

;Personal Length and Reach: A character can have from -10% to +10% of his template's average length and reach with low variance, from -20% to +30% of his template's average length and reach with medium variance and from -30% to +50% of his template's average length and reach with high variance. Every meter of reach is worth 200 CP, every tenth of a meter of reach is worth 20 CP, and every centimeter of reach is worth 2 CP. For example, if the template reach of a weapon is 1.5 m and the character reach of the weapon is 1.8 m, then the character reach CP is 60. (1.8 m - 1.5 m = 0.3 m which is 30 cm.)

Big characters should have more health, power, mass, length and reach, while smaller characters should have less health, power, mass, length and reach. The following table is a guideline for characters with typical mass, length, health and power relationships, but characters are not required to fit these categories:

{|
! align="left" | Size
! width="5" |
! align="left" | Health, Power and Mass
! width="5" |
! align="left" | Length and Reach
|-
| tiny || || less than half average || || over 20% less than average
|-
| very small || || between 1/3 and 2/3 average || || between 10% and 30% less than average
|-
| small || || between half average and average || || between 20% less than average and average
|-
| normal || || between 2/3 average and 50% more than average || || between 10% less and 10% more than average
|-
| big || || between average and twice average || || between average and 30% more than average
|-
| very big || || between 50% more than average and three times average || || between 10% and 50% more than average
|-
| huge || || more than twice average || || over 30% more than average
|}

==Mechanical vs. Organic Characters==

Being a mechanical character is an ability with a special CP of 0, no levels and no modifiers. A mechanical character does not heal, but can be repaired using craftsmanship and abilities which allow characters to modify mechanical characters. Mechanical characters can be repaired more quickly than an organic character heals. Mechanical characters do not require surgery rolls when they are modified.

Characters who do not have this ability are called organic characters. The main difference between mechanical and organic characters is how they are affected by trauma. (A very complex robot which can heal itself but can be easily destroyed by an attempted modification might not have the mechanical character ability.) Mechanical characters do not decay as quickly as organic creatures, so they can be easier to resuscitate from fatal injuries.

:There is a question as to weather or not the characteristic of being organic vs. being mechanical should have a Character Point value. For the time being we are just trying to balance out the advantages so that this characteristic is character-point neutral.

:How fast can mechanical characters be repaired? Are repairs more like modifications or like medicine/healing rolls? If mechanical character ability had a level it might be a bonus to being repaired.

:Do mechanical characters recover from stun like normal characters? I would lean toward "yes" as there are lots of temporary mechanical problems even a simple machine can work out itself, especially autonomous and semi-autonomous robots with redundant systems (NASA probes often recover themselves after the ground crew writes them off as down for the count, and they usually have minor problems which require adjustment and slow down the mission but don't cause lasting damage.)

==Combat Abilities==

Currently we only have two kinds of combat abilities:

;Weapon Proficiency: Abilities which modify combat modifiers are weapon proficiencies, because you have one combat modifier per weapon. Weapon Proficiencies can be as specific as a single weapon or as broad as you like (you could have a weapon proficiency which applies to all weapons) but they apply to any use of the weapon's combat modifier.

;Athletic Abilities: Athletic abilities improve your health, allowing you to fight longer even when you get hurt. Your best two athletic abilities affect your health, and it doesn't really matter which athletic abilities they are.

The most obvious thing missing is abilities that affect ''how'' you fight with a given weapon - abilities which give you an advantage to using certain classes of actions over others. For example experience competing in wrestling might improve your grappling more than it improves your striking ability. How would these abilities work? Would they add another column to the equipment list, or would they give you special modifiers (like the Grp, Atk, Par modifiers.) or would they be added directly to combat rolls? Would we have some combat modifiers be independent of the equipment list, and not affected by which weapon you use?

==Limitations==

We need to expand the coverage of limitations. Mostly these are setting/game design decisions that affect character creation and development.

* Template limitations not currently on the template:
** Sexes (based on template? Should templates have a "sexes" property?)
** Age limits (minimum age described by template, maximum age limits)
** natural abilities: I removed the following text from game design/templates/abilities: "If the ability cannot be improved by exercise or experience or can only be improved to a certain level, the ability should have a '''limit''' (Lim). This limit is the maximum number of ability levels a character of this template can develop in this ability." It seems like there are some circumstances where it would be appropriate to have this limit, for example a character might be a robot which cannot be trained to do tasks it has not already been programmed to do.
* CP Allowance
** How much CP for heroic characters?
** How much CP for super-heroic characters?
* Equipment
** starting equipment (character creation)
** shopping (character development)
* PCs vs. NPCs
** templates
** occupations
** abilities?
** equipment
* Character ability level limits?
** character creation
** training
** occupation-limited abilities?

The rest are GM-preference/style/playability/best-practices limitations:

* Maimed characters/missing limbs - the rules currently say you need the GM's permission.
* Disabilities
** A game should allow no disabilities beyond those built into the templates, or at least have limitations like one disability per character, no more than -1000 CP of disabilities, and only those disabilities that have unavoidable consequences.
** A game with a GM may have a bigger disability list because he GM can moderate the role-playing of those disabilities. Players need the GM's permission to give characters disabilities beyond template disabilities. The GM may have stricter limitations than the game requires, not allow some disabilities, or decide on a case-by-case basis.

==Ability Checks in Combat==

At times a GM might ask players to perform an ability check during a round of combat. My opinion is that players should not add their ability bonus to the check unless they specifically have established that they are using the ability. If the check is called before the player's turn and the player stated the use of the ability before the beginning of combat. The player would be allowed to add their ability bonus. If the check is called after the player's turn then the player would not be allowed to add their ability bonus the unless they specifically use at least a quick action to use the ability. --[[User:Ulrich|ulrich]] 11:00, 2005 Jul 2 (CEST)

:A classic example is watching out for traps during combat. If the traps are so well hidden that an ability roll is required, at least one of the PCs should spend a whole turn looking for traps instead of fighting. If the story requires the characters to fall into a trap, it should be impossible to find (or impossible to avoid if you do find it.) If this is not a good time in the story for the characters to fall into a trap, or if the characters have been specifically looking for traps as they go along, it doesn't make sense to ask them to make routine checks for traps. --[[User:SerpLord|SerpLord]] 15:17, 8 December 2005 (CET)

Talk:Mano a Mano

2008-01-16T01:24:51Z

75.165.109.53: /* New Terminology */

==No More Success Level or Half-Success==

* Getting rid of Success Level and Half Success speeds up and simplifies the system, especially in combat.
* Without Success Level and Half Success we can have an optional fractional ability level rule.
* All the power of sharp weapons becomes damage. Half the power of blunt weapon attacks, rounded down, is damage and the rest is stun. All the power of padded weapons is stun.
* Compare the defense die roll to cover. If the roll is not higher than the cover, the armor blocks the attack, reducing the attack's power by the armor's absorption.
* A character's climbing movement determines how fast he can move while climbing. While a character climbs he can move and perform one quick action per turn. Each turn - whether or not the character moves - make a success roll using the character's climbing ability modifier vs. the difficulty of clinging to the surface or structure the character is climbing. If the character performs an action, add 2 to the difficulty. If the character is moves but does not perform an action, add 1 to the difficulty. If the character is not moving or performing an action, add 2 to his roll. If the character is not successful he looses his grip and falls.

==Combos and Counters==
* Should [[Mano a Mano:Rounds]] & [[Mano a Mano:Maneuvering]] be consolidated?
** IMHO, split [[Mano a Mano:Rounds]] into [[Mano a Mano:Rounds]] and [[Mano a Mano:Actions]], and move [[Mano a Mano:Maneuvering]] to immediately before or after [[Mano a Mano:Movement]]. Then we can think about whether we want to combine any of these sections of the action rules.
***The separation between these sections is extremely problematic when players are trying to figure out what options are available durring the combat round. Furthermore, they have little meaning outside of the context of each other. The "manuevering" section for instance is a throwback to when we required the game to be played on a hex board.
* Roll for defense against each attack in a combo separately.
* A counterattack happens just before the attack it counters. The counterattack can prevent a strong attack or combo by doing enough stun or damage so the attacker's stun plus damage is greater than half of his health, forcing them to do quick action instead.
* Where are the "combo rules for attacking multiple targets"? Do these rules still exist?
** I doubt it. Do we want them or need them?
*** Being able to attack multiple characters on a single turn seemed really important to you when we were working on MaM 2007. Combos are the only thing in the system that allow this right now (as they should be.)
* We should say the counterattack is limited to quick actions when the counterattacking character's damage and stun together is equal to half his health or more.

==New Terminology==
* Replace "aimed or flanking attack" with "strategic attack." ("Strategic" is a synonym for Aimed and Flanking in this context, not just Tricky.) This a powerful action that gives the character a +1 roll bonus to land a single half-power strike.
* Replace "defense" (a rule that was never actually tested because it was vaguely named and an exact replica of the outreaching rule and was therefore necessarily excluded,) with "slipping attack" and "Evasion" (Evasion is what was used instead in testing):
**Slipping Attack (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slipping) is a powerful action that gives a +1 to defense until the attacker's next turn, and if successful delivers a half power strike. (In Boxing a slip can be down, towards, away, or to either side, so "slipping" should work narratively for zero G, Swimming, and Flying. Slipping is often complimented by footwork, so that "slipping" generally covers defensive footwork specifically.)
**Evasion is a quick action that cannot be used in a combo. If the character's stun and damage together is less than half of his health, Evasion gives the character a +2 to defense until his next turn. Otherwise the character gets a +1 until his next turn.

==Getting Rid of Negative Health==

It seems like everyone needs more health. See the [[Mano a Mano:Size Table]]. But increasing average health does not remove the need for negative health. Negative health lets us make creatures with less health than their athletic ability level(s). To remove this need we could change or remove the effect of athletic abilities on health. For example we could say your athletic abilities cannot give you more than twice your template health, then use a size table like this:

{| style="text-align:center"
| rowspan="10" width="200" valign="top" align="left" |
;Size Table: Health, agility and power are all related to a template's size. The following guidelines should help guide template creation, but some creatures will be stronger or weaker, quicker or clumsier than their mass would suggest.
! Health !! style="width:5em" | Agility !! Power !! style="width:7em" | Mass !! align="left" | Examples
|-
| 0 || 8 || 0 || < 10 g || align="left" | hummingbird, small bug
|-
| 1 || 7 || 1 || 10-999 g || align="left" | rat, mouse, largest insects
|-
| 2 || 6 || 2 || 1-9 kg || align="left" | cat, fox, rabbit
|-
| 3 || 5 || 3 || 10-39 kg || align="left" | dog, coyote
|-
| 4 || 4 || 4 || 40-199 kg || align="left" | human, deer, wolf
|-
| 6 || 3 || 6 || 200-999 kg || align="left" | cow, lion, horse, bear, moose
|-
| 10 || 2 || 10 || 1-9 tonnes || align="left" | giraffe, hippo, rhino, elephant
|-
| 20 || 1 || 15 || 10-99 tonnes || align="left" | largest dinosaurs
|-
| 30 || 0 || 20 || > 100 tonnes || align="left" | largest whales
|}

On the other hand if we drop the contribution of athletic abilities to health, we could allow the character health modifier (the same one used by the new build system) to be developed like an ability. (Using a size table similar to the one above) This would reduce the value of athletic abilities, so we might consider lumping them more or making them more useful. For example, acrobatics can be defined broadly enough to include climbing (there is significant overlap, such as rope climbing, pole climbing, mast climbing and parkour.)

While we are at it we could make all of the template pseudo-abilities developable: speed, agility, health and power, and get rid of strength and grip (which are basically power synonyms). In other words we would expand "build" development from character creation into ongoing character development, leading to the following new build rules:

;Personal Speed: A character can have increased or decreased speed if his template has medium or high variance. He can have a -1 or +1 speed modifier if his template speed is greater than 1. If his template speed is 1 or less he can have half or double his template speed. Reduced character speed is worth -1000 CP and increased character speed is worth +1000 CP.

{| style="text-align:center"
| align="left" valign="top" rowspan="8" width="200" |
;Personal Agility: A character can have -1 or +1 agility if his template has low, medium or high variance, -2 or +2 agility if his template has medium or high variance, and -3 or +3 agility if his template has high variance.
! Agility !! CP
|-
| -3 || -1200
|-
| -2 || -600
|-
| -1 || -200
|-
| 0 || 0
|-
| +1 || 200
|-
| +2 || 600
|-
| +3 || 1200
|}

;Personal Health: A character can have as little as 0 total health, but even very fragile characters usually have at least half of their template health. A character can have personal health up to half of his template health with low variance, as high as his template health with medium variance and up to twice his template health with high variance. Each point of health is worth 200 CP. Personal power can be negative, but it can never be low enough to reduce a character's total health below 0.

{| style="text-align:center"
| align="left" valign="top" rowspan="16" width="200" |
;Personal Power: A character can have as little as 0 total power, but even very weak characters usually have at least half of their template's power. A character can have personal power up to half of his template power with low variance, as high as his template power with medium variance and up to twice his template power with high variance.

:If a character has less than -5 personal power, each point of power below -4 decreases the character's personal power CP by 1000 CP. Personal power can never be low enough to reduce a character's total power below 0.
! Power !! CP
|-
| -4 || -2000
|-
| -3 || -1200
|-
| -2 || -600
|-
| -1 || -200
|-
| 0 || 0
|-
| 1 || 200
|-
| 2 || 600
|-
| 3 || 1200
|-
| 4 || 2000
|-
| 5 || 3000
|-
| 6 || 4200
|-
| 7 || 5600
|-
| 8 || 7200
|-
| 9 || 9000
|-
| 10 || 11000
|}

;Personal Mass: A character can have from -30% to +50% his template's average mass with low variance, from half (-50%) to double (+100%) his template's average mass with medium variance and from a third (-70%) to triple (+200%) his template's average mass with high variance.

;Personal Length and Reach: A character can have from -10% to +10% of his template's average length and reach with low variance, from -20% to +30% of his template's average length and reach with medium variance and from -30% to +50% of his template's average length and reach with high variance. Every meter of reach is worth 200 CP, every tenth of a meter of reach is worth 20 CP, and every centimeter of reach is worth 2 CP. For example, if the template reach of a weapon is 1.5 m and the character reach of the weapon is 1.8 m, then the character reach CP is 60. (1.8 m - 1.5 m = 0.3 m which is 30 cm.)

Big characters should have more health, power, mass, length and reach, while smaller characters should have less health, power, mass, length and reach. The following table is a guideline for characters with typical mass, length, health and power relationships, but characters are not required to fit these categories:

{|
! align="left" | Size
! width="5" |
! align="left" | Health, Power and Mass
! width="5" |
! align="left" | Length and Reach
|-
| tiny || || less than half average || || over 20% less than average
|-
| very small || || between 1/3 and 2/3 average || || between 10% and 30% less than average
|-
| small || || between half average and average || || between 20% less than average and average
|-
| normal || || between 2/3 average and 50% more than average || || between 10% less and 10% more than average
|-
| big || || between average and twice average || || between average and 30% more than average
|-
| very big || || between 50% more than average and three times average || || between 10% and 50% more than average
|-
| huge || || more than twice average || || over 30% more than average
|}

==Mechanical vs. Organic Characters==

Being a mechanical character is an ability with a special CP of 0, no levels and no modifiers. A mechanical character does not heal, but can be repaired using craftsmanship and abilities which allow characters to modify mechanical characters. Mechanical characters can be repaired more quickly than an organic character heals. Mechanical characters do not require surgery rolls when they are modified.

Characters who do not have this ability are called organic characters. The main difference between mechanical and organic characters is how they are affected by trauma. (A very complex robot which can heal itself but can be easily destroyed by an attempted modification might not have the mechanical character ability.) Mechanical characters do not decay as quickly as organic creatures, so they can be easier to resuscitate from fatal injuries.

:There is a question as to weather or not the characteristic of being organic vs. being mechanical should have a Character Point value. For the time being we are just trying to balance out the advantages so that this characteristic is character-point neutral.

:How fast can mechanical characters be repaired? Are repairs more like modifications or like medicine/healing rolls? If mechanical character ability had a level it might be a bonus to being repaired.

:Do mechanical characters recover from stun like normal characters? I would lean toward "yes" as there are lots of temporary mechanical problems even a simple machine can work out itself, especially autonomous and semi-autonomous robots with redundant systems (NASA probes often recover themselves after the ground crew writes them off as down for the count, and they usually have minor problems which require adjustment and slow down the mission but don't cause lasting damage.)

==Combat Abilities==

Currently we only have two kinds of combat abilities:

;Weapon Proficiency: Abilities which modify combat modifiers are weapon proficiencies, because you have one combat modifier per weapon. Weapon Proficiencies can be as specific as a single weapon or as broad as you like (you could have a weapon proficiency which applies to all weapons) but they apply to any use of the weapon's combat modifier.

;Athletic Abilities: Athletic abilities improve your health, allowing you to fight longer even when you get hurt. Your best two athletic abilities affect your health, and it doesn't really matter which athletic abilities they are.

The most obvious thing missing is abilities that affect ''how'' you fight with a given weapon - abilities which give you an advantage to using certain classes of actions over others. For example experience competing in wrestling might improve your grappling more than it improves your striking ability. How would these abilities work? Would they add another column to the equipment list, or would they give you special modifiers (like the Grp, Atk, Par modifiers.) or would they be added directly to combat rolls? Would we have some combat modifiers be independent of the equipment list, and not affected by which weapon you use?

==Limitations==

We need to expand the coverage of limitations. Mostly these are setting/game design decisions that affect character creation and development.

* Template limitations not currently on the template:
** Sexes (based on template? Should templates have a "sexes" property?)
** Age limits (minimum age described by template, maximum age limits)
** natural abilities: I removed the following text from game design/templates/abilities: "If the ability cannot be improved by exercise or experience or can only be improved to a certain level, the ability should have a '''limit''' (Lim). This limit is the maximum number of ability levels a character of this template can develop in this ability." It seems like there are some circumstances where it would be appropriate to have this limit, for example a character might be a robot which cannot be trained to do tasks it has not already been programmed to do.
* CP Allowance
** How much CP for heroic characters?
** How much CP for super-heroic characters?
* Equipment
** starting equipment (character creation)
** shopping (character development)
* PCs vs. NPCs
** templates
** occupations
** abilities?
** equipment
* Character ability level limits?
** character creation
** training
** occupation-limited abilities?

The rest are GM-preference/style/playability/best-practices limitations:

* Maimed characters/missing limbs - the rules currently say you need the GM's permission.
* Disabilities
** A game should allow no disabilities beyond those built into the templates, or at least have limitations like one disability per character, no more than -1000 CP of disabilities, and only those disabilities that have unavoidable consequences.
** A game with a GM may have a bigger disability list because he GM can moderate the role-playing of those disabilities. Players need the GM's permission to give characters disabilities beyond template disabilities. The GM may have stricter limitations than the game requires, not allow some disabilities, or decide on a case-by-case basis.

==Ability Checks in Combat==

At times a GM might ask players to perform an ability check during a round of combat. My opinion is that players should not add their ability bonus to the check unless they specifically have established that they are using the ability. If the check is called before the player's turn and the player stated the use of the ability before the beginning of combat. The player would be allowed to add their ability bonus. If the check is called after the player's turn then the player would not be allowed to add their ability bonus the unless they specifically use at least a quick action to use the ability. --[[User:Ulrich|ulrich]] 11:00, 2005 Jul 2 (CEST)

:A classic example is watching out for traps during combat. If the traps are so well hidden that an ability roll is required, at least one of the PCs should spend a whole turn looking for traps instead of fighting. If the story requires the characters to fall into a trap, it should be impossible to find (or impossible to avoid if you do find it.) If this is not a good time in the story for the characters to fall into a trap, or if the characters have been specifically looking for traps as they go along, it doesn't make sense to ask them to make routine checks for traps. --[[User:SerpLord|SerpLord]] 15:17, 8 December 2005 (CET)

Talk:Mano a Mano

2008-01-16T01:09:03Z

75.165.109.53: /* New Terminology */

==No More Success Level or Half-Success==

* Getting rid of Success Level and Half Success speeds up and simplifies the system, especially in combat.
* Without Success Level and Half Success we can have an optional fractional ability level rule.
* All the power of sharp weapons becomes damage. Half the power of blunt weapon attacks, rounded down, is damage and the rest is stun. All the power of padded weapons is stun.
* Compare the defense die roll to cover. If the roll is not higher than the cover, the armor blocks the attack, reducing the attack's power by the armor's absorption.
* A character's climbing movement determines how fast he can move while climbing. While a character climbs he can move and perform one quick action per turn. Each turn - whether or not the character moves - make a success roll using the character's climbing ability modifier vs. the difficulty of clinging to the surface or structure the character is climbing. If the character performs an action, add 2 to the difficulty. If the character is moves but does not perform an action, add 1 to the difficulty. If the character is not moving or performing an action, add 2 to his roll. If the character is not successful he looses his grip and falls.

==Combos and Counters==
* Should [[Mano a Mano:Rounds]] & [[Mano a Mano:Maneuvering]] be consolidated?
** IMHO, split [[Mano a Mano:Rounds]] into [[Mano a Mano:Rounds]] and [[Mano a Mano:Actions]], and move [[Mano a Mano:Maneuvering]] to immediately before or after [[Mano a Mano:Movement]]. Then we can think about whether we want to combine any of these sections of the action rules.
***The separation between these sections is extremely problematic when players are trying to figure out what options are available durring the combat round. Furthermore, they have little meaning outside of the context of each other. The "manuevering" section for instance is a throwback to when we required the game to be played on a hex board.
* Roll for defense against each attack in a combo separately.
* A counterattack happens just before the attack it counters. The counterattack can prevent a strong attack or combo by doing enough stun or damage so the attacker's stun plus damage is greater than half of his health, forcing them to do quick action instead.
* Where are the "combo rules for attacking multiple targets"? Do these rules still exist?
** I doubt it. Do we want them or need them?
*** Being able to attack multiple characters on a single turn seemed really important to you when we were working on MaM 2007. Combos are the only thing in the system that allow this right now (as they should be.)
* We should say the counterattack is limited to quick actions when the counterattacking character's damage and stun together is equal to half his health or more.

==New Terminology==
* Replace "aimed or flanking attack" with "strategic attack." ("Strategic" is a synonym for Aimed and Flanking in this context, not just Tricky.) This a powerful action that gives the character a +1 roll bonus to land a single half-power strike.
* Replace "defense" (a rule that was never actually tested because it was vaguely named and an exact replica of the outreaching rule and was therefore necessarily excluded,) with "slipping attack" and "Evasion" (Evasion is what was used instead in testing):
**Slipping Attack (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boxing#Defence) is a powerful action that gives a +1 to defense until the attacker's next turn, and if successful delivers a half power strike. (In Boxing a slip can be down, towards, away, or to either side, so "slipping" should work narratively for zero G, Swimming, and Flying.)
**Evasion is a quick action that cannot be used in a combo. If the character's stun and damage together is less than half of his health, Evasion gives the character a +2 to defense until his next turn. Otherwise the character gets a +1 until his next turn.

==Getting Rid of Negative Health==

It seems like everyone needs more health. See the [[Mano a Mano:Size Table]]. But increasing average health does not remove the need for negative health. Negative health lets us make creatures with less health than their athletic ability level(s). To remove this need we could change or remove the effect of athletic abilities on health. For example we could say your athletic abilities cannot give you more than twice your template health, then use a size table like this:

{| style="text-align:center"
| rowspan="10" width="200" valign="top" align="left" |
;Size Table: Health, agility and power are all related to a template's size. The following guidelines should help guide template creation, but some creatures will be stronger or weaker, quicker or clumsier than their mass would suggest.
! Health !! style="width:5em" | Agility !! Power !! style="width:7em" | Mass !! align="left" | Examples
|-
| 0 || 8 || 0 || < 10 g || align="left" | hummingbird, small bug
|-
| 1 || 7 || 1 || 10-999 g || align="left" | rat, mouse, largest insects
|-
| 2 || 6 || 2 || 1-9 kg || align="left" | cat, fox, rabbit
|-
| 3 || 5 || 3 || 10-39 kg || align="left" | dog, coyote
|-
| 4 || 4 || 4 || 40-199 kg || align="left" | human, deer, wolf
|-
| 6 || 3 || 6 || 200-999 kg || align="left" | cow, lion, horse, bear, moose
|-
| 10 || 2 || 10 || 1-9 tonnes || align="left" | giraffe, hippo, rhino, elephant
|-
| 20 || 1 || 15 || 10-99 tonnes || align="left" | largest dinosaurs
|-
| 30 || 0 || 20 || > 100 tonnes || align="left" | largest whales
|}

On the other hand if we drop the contribution of athletic abilities to health, we could allow the character health modifier (the same one used by the new build system) to be developed like an ability. (Using a size table similar to the one above) This would reduce the value of athletic abilities, so we might consider lumping them more or making them more useful. For example, acrobatics can be defined broadly enough to include climbing (there is significant overlap, such as rope climbing, pole climbing, mast climbing and parkour.)

While we are at it we could make all of the template pseudo-abilities developable: speed, agility, health and power, and get rid of strength and grip (which are basically power synonyms). In other words we would expand "build" development from character creation into ongoing character development, leading to the following new build rules:

;Personal Speed: A character can have increased or decreased speed if his template has medium or high variance. He can have a -1 or +1 speed modifier if his template speed is greater than 1. If his template speed is 1 or less he can have half or double his template speed. Reduced character speed is worth -1000 CP and increased character speed is worth +1000 CP.

{| style="text-align:center"
| align="left" valign="top" rowspan="8" width="200" |
;Personal Agility: A character can have -1 or +1 agility if his template has low, medium or high variance, -2 or +2 agility if his template has medium or high variance, and -3 or +3 agility if his template has high variance.
! Agility !! CP
|-
| -3 || -1200
|-
| -2 || -600
|-
| -1 || -200
|-
| 0 || 0
|-
| +1 || 200
|-
| +2 || 600
|-
| +3 || 1200
|}

;Personal Health: A character can have as little as 0 total health, but even very fragile characters usually have at least half of their template health. A character can have personal health up to half of his template health with low variance, as high as his template health with medium variance and up to twice his template health with high variance. Each point of health is worth 200 CP. Personal power can be negative, but it can never be low enough to reduce a character's total health below 0.

{| style="text-align:center"
| align="left" valign="top" rowspan="16" width="200" |
;Personal Power: A character can have as little as 0 total power, but even very weak characters usually have at least half of their template's power. A character can have personal power up to half of his template power with low variance, as high as his template power with medium variance and up to twice his template power with high variance.

:If a character has less than -5 personal power, each point of power below -4 decreases the character's personal power CP by 1000 CP. Personal power can never be low enough to reduce a character's total power below 0.
! Power !! CP
|-
| -4 || -2000
|-
| -3 || -1200
|-
| -2 || -600
|-
| -1 || -200
|-
| 0 || 0
|-
| 1 || 200
|-
| 2 || 600
|-
| 3 || 1200
|-
| 4 || 2000
|-
| 5 || 3000
|-
| 6 || 4200
|-
| 7 || 5600
|-
| 8 || 7200
|-
| 9 || 9000
|-
| 10 || 11000
|}

;Personal Mass: A character can have from -30% to +50% his template's average mass with low variance, from half (-50%) to double (+100%) his template's average mass with medium variance and from a third (-70%) to triple (+200%) his template's average mass with high variance.

;Personal Length and Reach: A character can have from -10% to +10% of his template's average length and reach with low variance, from -20% to +30% of his template's average length and reach with medium variance and from -30% to +50% of his template's average length and reach with high variance. Every meter of reach is worth 200 CP, every tenth of a meter of reach is worth 20 CP, and every centimeter of reach is worth 2 CP. For example, if the template reach of a weapon is 1.5 m and the character reach of the weapon is 1.8 m, then the character reach CP is 60. (1.8 m - 1.5 m = 0.3 m which is 30 cm.)

Big characters should have more health, power, mass, length and reach, while smaller characters should have less health, power, mass, length and reach. The following table is a guideline for characters with typical mass, length, health and power relationships, but characters are not required to fit these categories:

{|
! align="left" | Size
! width="5" |
! align="left" | Health, Power and Mass
! width="5" |
! align="left" | Length and Reach
|-
| tiny || || less than half average || || over 20% less than average
|-
| very small || || between 1/3 and 2/3 average || || between 10% and 30% less than average
|-
| small || || between half average and average || || between 20% less than average and average
|-
| normal || || between 2/3 average and 50% more than average || || between 10% less and 10% more than average
|-
| big || || between average and twice average || || between average and 30% more than average
|-
| very big || || between 50% more than average and three times average || || between 10% and 50% more than average
|-
| huge || || more than twice average || || over 30% more than average
|}

==Mechanical vs. Organic Characters==

Being a mechanical character is an ability with a special CP of 0, no levels and no modifiers. A mechanical character does not heal, but can be repaired using craftsmanship and abilities which allow characters to modify mechanical characters. Mechanical characters can be repaired more quickly than an organic character heals. Mechanical characters do not require surgery rolls when they are modified.

Characters who do not have this ability are called organic characters. The main difference between mechanical and organic characters is how they are affected by trauma. (A very complex robot which can heal itself but can be easily destroyed by an attempted modification might not have the mechanical character ability.) Mechanical characters do not decay as quickly as organic creatures, so they can be easier to resuscitate from fatal injuries.

:There is a question as to weather or not the characteristic of being organic vs. being mechanical should have a Character Point value. For the time being we are just trying to balance out the advantages so that this characteristic is character-point neutral.

:How fast can mechanical characters be repaired? Are repairs more like modifications or like medicine/healing rolls? If mechanical character ability had a level it might be a bonus to being repaired.

:Do mechanical characters recover from stun like normal characters? I would lean toward "yes" as there are lots of temporary mechanical problems even a simple machine can work out itself, especially autonomous and semi-autonomous robots with redundant systems (NASA probes often recover themselves after the ground crew writes them off as down for the count, and they usually have minor problems which require adjustment and slow down the mission but don't cause lasting damage.)

==Combat Abilities==

Currently we only have two kinds of combat abilities:

;Weapon Proficiency: Abilities which modify combat modifiers are weapon proficiencies, because you have one combat modifier per weapon. Weapon Proficiencies can be as specific as a single weapon or as broad as you like (you could have a weapon proficiency which applies to all weapons) but they apply to any use of the weapon's combat modifier.

;Athletic Abilities: Athletic abilities improve your health, allowing you to fight longer even when you get hurt. Your best two athletic abilities affect your health, and it doesn't really matter which athletic abilities they are.

The most obvious thing missing is abilities that affect ''how'' you fight with a given weapon - abilities which give you an advantage to using certain classes of actions over others. For example experience competing in wrestling might improve your grappling more than it improves your striking ability. How would these abilities work? Would they add another column to the equipment list, or would they give you special modifiers (like the Grp, Atk, Par modifiers.) or would they be added directly to combat rolls? Would we have some combat modifiers be independent of the equipment list, and not affected by which weapon you use?

==Limitations==

We need to expand the coverage of limitations. Mostly these are setting/game design decisions that affect character creation and development.

* Template limitations not currently on the template:
** Sexes (based on template? Should templates have a "sexes" property?)
** Age limits (minimum age described by template, maximum age limits)
** natural abilities: I removed the following text from game design/templates/abilities: "If the ability cannot be improved by exercise or experience or can only be improved to a certain level, the ability should have a '''limit''' (Lim). This limit is the maximum number of ability levels a character of this template can develop in this ability." It seems like there are some circumstances where it would be appropriate to have this limit, for example a character might be a robot which cannot be trained to do tasks it has not already been programmed to do.
* CP Allowance
** How much CP for heroic characters?
** How much CP for super-heroic characters?
* Equipment
** starting equipment (character creation)
** shopping (character development)
* PCs vs. NPCs
** templates
** occupations
** abilities?
** equipment
* Character ability level limits?
** character creation
** training
** occupation-limited abilities?

The rest are GM-preference/style/playability/best-practices limitations:

* Maimed characters/missing limbs - the rules currently say you need the GM's permission.
* Disabilities
** A game should allow no disabilities beyond those built into the templates, or at least have limitations like one disability per character, no more than -1000 CP of disabilities, and only those disabilities that have unavoidable consequences.
** A game with a GM may have a bigger disability list because he GM can moderate the role-playing of those disabilities. Players need the GM's permission to give characters disabilities beyond template disabilities. The GM may have stricter limitations than the game requires, not allow some disabilities, or decide on a case-by-case basis.

==Ability Checks in Combat==

At times a GM might ask players to perform an ability check during a round of combat. My opinion is that players should not add their ability bonus to the check unless they specifically have established that they are using the ability. If the check is called before the player's turn and the player stated the use of the ability before the beginning of combat. The player would be allowed to add their ability bonus. If the check is called after the player's turn then the player would not be allowed to add their ability bonus the unless they specifically use at least a quick action to use the ability. --[[User:Ulrich|ulrich]] 11:00, 2005 Jul 2 (CEST)

:A classic example is watching out for traps during combat. If the traps are so well hidden that an ability roll is required, at least one of the PCs should spend a whole turn looking for traps instead of fighting. If the story requires the characters to fall into a trap, it should be impossible to find (or impossible to avoid if you do find it.) If this is not a good time in the story for the characters to fall into a trap, or if the characters have been specifically looking for traps as they go along, it doesn't make sense to ask them to make routine checks for traps. --[[User:SerpLord|SerpLord]] 15:17, 8 December 2005 (CET)

Talk:Mano a Mano

2008-01-16T01:03:52Z

75.165.109.53: /* Combos and Counters */

==No More Success Level or Half-Success==

* Getting rid of Success Level and Half Success speeds up and simplifies the system, especially in combat.
* Without Success Level and Half Success we can have an optional fractional ability level rule.
* All the power of sharp weapons becomes damage. Half the power of blunt weapon attacks, rounded down, is damage and the rest is stun. All the power of padded weapons is stun.
* Compare the defense die roll to cover. If the roll is not higher than the cover, the armor blocks the attack, reducing the attack's power by the armor's absorption.
* A character's climbing movement determines how fast he can move while climbing. While a character climbs he can move and perform one quick action per turn. Each turn - whether or not the character moves - make a success roll using the character's climbing ability modifier vs. the difficulty of clinging to the surface or structure the character is climbing. If the character performs an action, add 2 to the difficulty. If the character is moves but does not perform an action, add 1 to the difficulty. If the character is not moving or performing an action, add 2 to his roll. If the character is not successful he looses his grip and falls.

==Combos and Counters==
* Should [[Mano a Mano:Rounds]] & [[Mano a Mano:Maneuvering]] be consolidated?
** IMHO, split [[Mano a Mano:Rounds]] into [[Mano a Mano:Rounds]] and [[Mano a Mano:Actions]], and move [[Mano a Mano:Maneuvering]] to immediately before or after [[Mano a Mano:Movement]]. Then we can think about whether we want to combine any of these sections of the action rules.
***The separation between these sections is extremely problematic when players are trying to figure out what options are available durring the combat round. Furthermore, they have little meaning outside of the context of each other. The "manuevering" section for instance is a throwback to when we required the game to be played on a hex board.
* Roll for defense against each attack in a combo separately.
* A counterattack happens just before the attack it counters. The counterattack can prevent a strong attack or combo by doing enough stun or damage so the attacker's stun plus damage is greater than half of his health, forcing them to do quick action instead.
* Where are the "combo rules for attacking multiple targets"? Do these rules still exist?
** I doubt it. Do we want them or need them?
*** Being able to attack multiple characters on a single turn seemed really important to you when we were working on MaM 2007. Combos are the only thing in the system that allow this right now (as they should be.)
* We should say the counterattack is limited to quick actions when the counterattacking character's damage and stun together is equal to half his health or more.

==New Terminology==
* Replace "aimed or flanking attack" with "strategic attack." ("Strategic" is a synonym for Aimed and Flanking in this context, not just Tricky.) This a powerful action that gives the character a +1 roll bonus to land a single half-power strike.
* Replace "defense" (a rule that was never actually tested because it was vaguely named and ultra powerful, and was an exact replica of the outreaching rule and was therefore necessarily excluded,) with "slipping attack" and "Evasion":
**Slipping Attack (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boxing#Defence) is a powerful action that gives a +1 to defense until the attacker's next turn, and if successful delivers a half power strike. (In Boxing a slip can be down, towards, away, or to either side, so "slipping" should work narratively for zero G, Swimming, and Flying.)
**Evasion is a quick action that cannot be used in a combo. If the character's stun and damage is not equal to or greater than half of his health, Evasion gives the character a +2 to defense until his next turn. Otherwise the character gets a +1 until his next turn.

==Getting Rid of Negative Health==

It seems like everyone needs more health. See the [[Mano a Mano:Size Table]]. But increasing average health does not remove the need for negative health. Negative health lets us make creatures with less health than their athletic ability level(s). To remove this need we could change or remove the effect of athletic abilities on health. For example we could say your athletic abilities cannot give you more than twice your template health, then use a size table like this:

{| style="text-align:center"
| rowspan="10" width="200" valign="top" align="left" |
;Size Table: Health, agility and power are all related to a template's size. The following guidelines should help guide template creation, but some creatures will be stronger or weaker, quicker or clumsier than their mass would suggest.
! Health !! style="width:5em" | Agility !! Power !! style="width:7em" | Mass !! align="left" | Examples
|-
| 0 || 8 || 0 || < 10 g || align="left" | hummingbird, small bug
|-
| 1 || 7 || 1 || 10-999 g || align="left" | rat, mouse, largest insects
|-
| 2 || 6 || 2 || 1-9 kg || align="left" | cat, fox, rabbit
|-
| 3 || 5 || 3 || 10-39 kg || align="left" | dog, coyote
|-
| 4 || 4 || 4 || 40-199 kg || align="left" | human, deer, wolf
|-
| 6 || 3 || 6 || 200-999 kg || align="left" | cow, lion, horse, bear, moose
|-
| 10 || 2 || 10 || 1-9 tonnes || align="left" | giraffe, hippo, rhino, elephant
|-
| 20 || 1 || 15 || 10-99 tonnes || align="left" | largest dinosaurs
|-
| 30 || 0 || 20 || > 100 tonnes || align="left" | largest whales
|}

On the other hand if we drop the contribution of athletic abilities to health, we could allow the character health modifier (the same one used by the new build system) to be developed like an ability. (Using a size table similar to the one above) This would reduce the value of athletic abilities, so we might consider lumping them more or making them more useful. For example, acrobatics can be defined broadly enough to include climbing (there is significant overlap, such as rope climbing, pole climbing, mast climbing and parkour.)

While we are at it we could make all of the template pseudo-abilities developable: speed, agility, health and power, and get rid of strength and grip (which are basically power synonyms). In other words we would expand "build" development from character creation into ongoing character development, leading to the following new build rules:

;Personal Speed: A character can have increased or decreased speed if his template has medium or high variance. He can have a -1 or +1 speed modifier if his template speed is greater than 1. If his template speed is 1 or less he can have half or double his template speed. Reduced character speed is worth -1000 CP and increased character speed is worth +1000 CP.

{| style="text-align:center"
| align="left" valign="top" rowspan="8" width="200" |
;Personal Agility: A character can have -1 or +1 agility if his template has low, medium or high variance, -2 or +2 agility if his template has medium or high variance, and -3 or +3 agility if his template has high variance.
! Agility !! CP
|-
| -3 || -1200
|-
| -2 || -600
|-
| -1 || -200
|-
| 0 || 0
|-
| +1 || 200
|-
| +2 || 600
|-
| +3 || 1200
|}

;Personal Health: A character can have as little as 0 total health, but even very fragile characters usually have at least half of their template health. A character can have personal health up to half of his template health with low variance, as high as his template health with medium variance and up to twice his template health with high variance. Each point of health is worth 200 CP. Personal power can be negative, but it can never be low enough to reduce a character's total health below 0.

{| style="text-align:center"
| align="left" valign="top" rowspan="16" width="200" |
;Personal Power: A character can have as little as 0 total power, but even very weak characters usually have at least half of their template's power. A character can have personal power up to half of his template power with low variance, as high as his template power with medium variance and up to twice his template power with high variance.

:If a character has less than -5 personal power, each point of power below -4 decreases the character's personal power CP by 1000 CP. Personal power can never be low enough to reduce a character's total power below 0.
! Power !! CP
|-
| -4 || -2000
|-
| -3 || -1200
|-
| -2 || -600
|-
| -1 || -200
|-
| 0 || 0
|-
| 1 || 200
|-
| 2 || 600
|-
| 3 || 1200
|-
| 4 || 2000
|-
| 5 || 3000
|-
| 6 || 4200
|-
| 7 || 5600
|-
| 8 || 7200
|-
| 9 || 9000
|-
| 10 || 11000
|}

;Personal Mass: A character can have from -30% to +50% his template's average mass with low variance, from half (-50%) to double (+100%) his template's average mass with medium variance and from a third (-70%) to triple (+200%) his template's average mass with high variance.

;Personal Length and Reach: A character can have from -10% to +10% of his template's average length and reach with low variance, from -20% to +30% of his template's average length and reach with medium variance and from -30% to +50% of his template's average length and reach with high variance. Every meter of reach is worth 200 CP, every tenth of a meter of reach is worth 20 CP, and every centimeter of reach is worth 2 CP. For example, if the template reach of a weapon is 1.5 m and the character reach of the weapon is 1.8 m, then the character reach CP is 60. (1.8 m - 1.5 m = 0.3 m which is 30 cm.)

Big characters should have more health, power, mass, length and reach, while smaller characters should have less health, power, mass, length and reach. The following table is a guideline for characters with typical mass, length, health and power relationships, but characters are not required to fit these categories:

{|
! align="left" | Size
! width="5" |
! align="left" | Health, Power and Mass
! width="5" |
! align="left" | Length and Reach
|-
| tiny || || less than half average || || over 20% less than average
|-
| very small || || between 1/3 and 2/3 average || || between 10% and 30% less than average
|-
| small || || between half average and average || || between 20% less than average and average
|-
| normal || || between 2/3 average and 50% more than average || || between 10% less and 10% more than average
|-
| big || || between average and twice average || || between average and 30% more than average
|-
| very big || || between 50% more than average and three times average || || between 10% and 50% more than average
|-
| huge || || more than twice average || || over 30% more than average
|}

==Mechanical vs. Organic Characters==

Being a mechanical character is an ability with a special CP of 0, no levels and no modifiers. A mechanical character does not heal, but can be repaired using craftsmanship and abilities which allow characters to modify mechanical characters. Mechanical characters can be repaired more quickly than an organic character heals. Mechanical characters do not require surgery rolls when they are modified.

Characters who do not have this ability are called organic characters. The main difference between mechanical and organic characters is how they are affected by trauma. (A very complex robot which can heal itself but can be easily destroyed by an attempted modification might not have the mechanical character ability.) Mechanical characters do not decay as quickly as organic creatures, so they can be easier to resuscitate from fatal injuries.

:There is a question as to weather or not the characteristic of being organic vs. being mechanical should have a Character Point value. For the time being we are just trying to balance out the advantages so that this characteristic is character-point neutral.

:How fast can mechanical characters be repaired? Are repairs more like modifications or like medicine/healing rolls? If mechanical character ability had a level it might be a bonus to being repaired.

:Do mechanical characters recover from stun like normal characters? I would lean toward "yes" as there are lots of temporary mechanical problems even a simple machine can work out itself, especially autonomous and semi-autonomous robots with redundant systems (NASA probes often recover themselves after the ground crew writes them off as down for the count, and they usually have minor problems which require adjustment and slow down the mission but don't cause lasting damage.)

==Combat Abilities==

Currently we only have two kinds of combat abilities:

;Weapon Proficiency: Abilities which modify combat modifiers are weapon proficiencies, because you have one combat modifier per weapon. Weapon Proficiencies can be as specific as a single weapon or as broad as you like (you could have a weapon proficiency which applies to all weapons) but they apply to any use of the weapon's combat modifier.

;Athletic Abilities: Athletic abilities improve your health, allowing you to fight longer even when you get hurt. Your best two athletic abilities affect your health, and it doesn't really matter which athletic abilities they are.

The most obvious thing missing is abilities that affect ''how'' you fight with a given weapon - abilities which give you an advantage to using certain classes of actions over others. For example experience competing in wrestling might improve your grappling more than it improves your striking ability. How would these abilities work? Would they add another column to the equipment list, or would they give you special modifiers (like the Grp, Atk, Par modifiers.) or would they be added directly to combat rolls? Would we have some combat modifiers be independent of the equipment list, and not affected by which weapon you use?

==Limitations==

We need to expand the coverage of limitations. Mostly these are setting/game design decisions that affect character creation and development.

* Template limitations not currently on the template:
** Sexes (based on template? Should templates have a "sexes" property?)
** Age limits (minimum age described by template, maximum age limits)
** natural abilities: I removed the following text from game design/templates/abilities: "If the ability cannot be improved by exercise or experience or can only be improved to a certain level, the ability should have a '''limit''' (Lim). This limit is the maximum number of ability levels a character of this template can develop in this ability." It seems like there are some circumstances where it would be appropriate to have this limit, for example a character might be a robot which cannot be trained to do tasks it has not already been programmed to do.
* CP Allowance
** How much CP for heroic characters?
** How much CP for super-heroic characters?
* Equipment
** starting equipment (character creation)
** shopping (character development)
* PCs vs. NPCs
** templates
** occupations
** abilities?
** equipment
* Character ability level limits?
** character creation
** training
** occupation-limited abilities?

The rest are GM-preference/style/playability/best-practices limitations:

* Maimed characters/missing limbs - the rules currently say you need the GM's permission.
* Disabilities
** A game should allow no disabilities beyond those built into the templates, or at least have limitations like one disability per character, no more than -1000 CP of disabilities, and only those disabilities that have unavoidable consequences.
** A game with a GM may have a bigger disability list because he GM can moderate the role-playing of those disabilities. Players need the GM's permission to give characters disabilities beyond template disabilities. The GM may have stricter limitations than the game requires, not allow some disabilities, or decide on a case-by-case basis.

==Ability Checks in Combat==

At times a GM might ask players to perform an ability check during a round of combat. My opinion is that players should not add their ability bonus to the check unless they specifically have established that they are using the ability. If the check is called before the player's turn and the player stated the use of the ability before the beginning of combat. The player would be allowed to add their ability bonus. If the check is called after the player's turn then the player would not be allowed to add their ability bonus the unless they specifically use at least a quick action to use the ability. --[[User:Ulrich|ulrich]] 11:00, 2005 Jul 2 (CEST)

:A classic example is watching out for traps during combat. If the traps are so well hidden that an ability roll is required, at least one of the PCs should spend a whole turn looking for traps instead of fighting. If the story requires the characters to fall into a trap, it should be impossible to find (or impossible to avoid if you do find it.) If this is not a good time in the story for the characters to fall into a trap, or if the characters have been specifically looking for traps as they go along, it doesn't make sense to ask them to make routine checks for traps. --[[User:SerpLord|SerpLord]] 15:17, 8 December 2005 (CET)

Talk:Mano a Mano

2008-01-15T21:31:14Z

75.165.109.53: /* Combos and Counters */

==No More Success Level or Half-Success==

* Getting rid of Success Level and Half Success speeds up and simplifies the system, especially in combat.
* Without Success Level and Half Success we can have an optional fractional ability level rule.
* All the power of sharp weapons becomes damage. Half the power of blunt weapon attacks, rounded down, is damage and the rest is stun. All the power of padded weapons is stun.
* Compare the defense die roll to cover. If the roll is not higher than the cover, the armor blocks the attack, reducing the attack's power by the armor's absorption.
* A character's climbing movement determines how fast he can move while climbing. Each turn a character climbs - even if he doesn't move, make a success roll using the character's climbing ability modifier vs. the difficulty of clinging to the surface or structure the character is climbing. If the character is not trying to move, he has a +2 modifier to this roll. For a character to move and perform one quick action, he has a -2 modifier against his success. He only has a -1 modifier against his success in order to move but not perform any other actions. If the character is not successful he looses his grip and falls.

==Combos and Counters==
* Should [[Mano a Mano:Rounds]] & [[Mano a Mano:Maneuvering]] be consolidated?
* Roll for defence against each attack in a combo separately.
* A counterattacks happen just before the attack they are countering. The counter attack can prevent a strong attack or combo only by adding enough stun or damage to exceed half of the target's health (thus forcing them to do quick action instead.)
* Where are the "combo rules for attacking multiple targets"? Do these rules still exist?
* We should say the counterattack is limited to quick actions when the counterattacking character's damage and stun together is equal to half his health or more.
* Instead of aimed, defence, and evasion, we should use this terminology instead:
**Tricky attack is a powerful action that gives a +1 to the attack roll, but only has half-power.
**Side-step is a quick action that gives a +1 to the character's passive defence roll until his next turn (only one side step can be used per turn. Combos can still be used as a counter, so side steps can still be used as a counter in conjunction with other quick actions.)
**Evasion is a powerful action that gives a +2 to the character's passive defence roll until his next turn.

==Getting Rid of Negative Health==

It seems like everyone needs more health. See the [[Mano a Mano:Size Table]]. But increasing average health does not remove the need for negative health. Negative health lets us make creatures with less health than their athletic ability level(s). To remove this need we could change or remove the effect of athletic abilities on health. For example we could say your athletic abilities cannot give you more than twice your template health, then use a size table like this:

{| style="text-align:center"
| rowspan="10" width="200" valign="top" align="left" |
;Size Table: Health, agility and power are all related to a template's size. The following guidelines should help guide template creation, but some creatures will be stronger or weaker, quicker or clumsier than their mass would suggest.
! Health !! style="width:5em" | Agility !! Power !! style="width:7em" | Mass !! align="left" | Examples
|-
| 0 || 8 || 0 || < 10 g || align="left" | hummingbird, small bug
|-
| 1 || 7 || 1 || 10-999 g || align="left" | rat, mouse, largest insects
|-
| 2 || 6 || 2 || 1-9 kg || align="left" | cat, fox, rabbit
|-
| 3 || 5 || 3 || 10-39 kg || align="left" | dog, coyote
|-
| 4 || 4 || 4 || 40-199 kg || align="left" | human, deer, wolf
|-
| 6 || 3 || 6 || 200-999 kg || align="left" | cow, lion, horse, bear, moose
|-
| 10 || 2 || 10 || 1-9 tonnes || align="left" | giraffe, hippo, rhino, elephant
|-
| 20 || 1 || 15 || 10-99 tonnes || align="left" | largest dinosaurs
|-
| 30 || 0 || 20 || > 100 tonnes || align="left" | largest whales
|}

On the other hand if we drop the contribution of athletic abilities to health, we could allow the character health modifier (the same one used by the new build system) to be developed like an ability. (Using a size table similar to the one above) This would reduce the value of athletic abilities, so we might consider lumping them more or making them more useful. For example, acrobatics can be defined broadly enough to include climbing (there is significant overlap, such as rope climbing, pole climbing, mast climbing and parkour.)

While we are at it we could make all of the template pseudo-abilities developable: speed, agility, health and power, and get rid of strength and grip (which are basically power synonyms). In other words we would expand "build" development from character creation into ongoing character development, leading to the following new build rules:

;Personal Speed: A character can have increased or decreased speed if his template has medium or high variance. He can have a -1 or +1 speed modifier if his template speed is greater than 1. If his template speed is 1 or less he can have half or double his template speed. Reduced character speed is worth -1000 CP and increased character speed is worth +1000 CP.

{| style="text-align:center"
| align="left" valign="top" rowspan="8" width="200" |
;Personal Agility: A character can have -1 or +1 agility if his template has low, medium or high variance, -2 or +2 agility if his template has medium or high variance, and -3 or +3 agility if his template has high variance.
! Agility !! CP
|-
| -3 || -1200
|-
| -2 || -600
|-
| -1 || -200
|-
| 0 || 0
|-
| +1 || 200
|-
| +2 || 600
|-
| +3 || 1200
|}

;Personal Health: A character can have as little as 0 total health, but even very fragile characters usually have at least half of their template health. A character can have personal health up to half of his template health with low variance, as high as his template health with medium variance and up to twice his template health with high variance. Each point of health is worth 200 CP. Personal power can be negative, but it can never be low enough to reduce a character's total health below 0.

{| style="text-align:center"
| align="left" valign="top" rowspan="16" width="200" |
;Personal Power: A character can have as little as 0 total power, but even very weak characters usually have at least half of their template's power. A character can have personal power up to half of his template power with low variance, as high as his template power with medium variance and up to twice his template power with high variance.

:If a character has less than -5 personal power, each point of power below -4 decreases the character's personal power CP by 1000 CP. Personal power can never be low enough to reduce a character's total power below 0.
! Power !! CP
|-
| -4 || -2000
|-
| -3 || -1200
|-
| -2 || -600
|-
| -1 || -200
|-
| 0 || 0
|-
| 1 || 200
|-
| 2 || 600
|-
| 3 || 1200
|-
| 4 || 2000
|-
| 5 || 3000
|-
| 6 || 4200
|-
| 7 || 5600
|-
| 8 || 7200
|-
| 9 || 9000
|-
| 10 || 11000
|}

;Personal Mass: A character can have from -30% to +50% his template's average mass with low variance, from half (-50%) to double (+100%) his template's average mass with medium variance and from a third (-70%) to triple (+200%) his template's average mass with high variance.

;Personal Length and Reach: A character can have from -10% to +10% of his template's average length and reach with low variance, from -20% to +30% of his template's average length and reach with medium variance and from -30% to +50% of his template's average length and reach with high variance. Every meter of reach is worth 200 CP, every tenth of a meter of reach is worth 20 CP, and every centimeter of reach is worth 2 CP. For example, if the template reach of a weapon is 1.5 m and the character reach of the weapon is 1.8 m, then the character reach CP is 60. (1.8 m - 1.5 m = 0.3 m which is 30 cm.)

Big characters should have more health, power, mass, length and reach, while smaller characters should have less health, power, mass, length and reach. The following table is a guideline for characters with typical mass, length, health and power relationships, but characters are not required to fit these categories:

{|
! align="left" | Size
! width="5" |
! align="left" | Health, Power and Mass
! width="5" |
! align="left" | Length and Reach
|-
| tiny || || less than half average || || over 20% less than average
|-
| very small || || between 1/3 and 2/3 average || || between 10% and 30% less than average
|-
| small || || between half average and average || || between 20% less than average and average
|-
| normal || || between 2/3 average and 50% more than average || || between 10% less and 10% more than average
|-
| big || || between average and twice average || || between average and 30% more than average
|-
| very big || || between 50% more than average and three times average || || between 10% and 50% more than average
|-
| huge || || more than twice average || || over 30% more than average
|}

==Mechanical vs. Organic Characters==

Being a mechanical character is an ability with a special CP of 0, no levels and no modifiers. A mechanical character does not heal, but can be repaired using craftsmanship and abilities which allow characters to modify mechanical characters. Mechanical characters can be repaired more quickly than an organic character heals. Mechanical characters do not require surgery rolls when they are modified.

Characters who do not have this ability are called organic characters. The main difference between mechanical and organic characters is how they are affected by trauma. (A very complex robot which can heal itself but can be easily destroyed by an attempted modification might not have the mechanical character ability.) Mechanical characters do not decay as quickly as organic creatures, so they can be easier to resuscitate from fatal injuries.

:There is a question as to weather or not the characteristic of being organic vs. being mechanical should have a Character Point value. For the time being we are just trying to balance out the advantages so that this characteristic is character-point neutral.

:How fast can mechanical characters be repaired? Are repairs more like modifications or like medicine/healing rolls? If mechanical character ability had a level it might be a bonus to being repaired.

:Do mechanical characters recover from stun like normal characters? I would lean toward "yes" as there are lots of temporary mechanical problems even a simple machine can work out itself, especially autonomous and semi-autonomous robots with redundant systems (NASA probes often recover themselves after the ground crew writes them off as down for the count, and they usually have minor problems which require adjustment and slow down the mission but don't cause lasting damage.)

==Combat Abilities==

Currently we only have two kinds of combat abilities:

;Weapon Proficiency: Abilities which modify combat modifiers are weapon proficiencies, because you have one combat modifier per weapon. Weapon Proficiencies can be as specific as a single weapon or as broad as you like (you could have a weapon proficiency which applies to all weapons) but they apply to any use of the weapon's combat modifier.

;Athletic Abilities: Athletic abilities improve your health, allowing you to fight longer even when you get hurt. Your best two athletic abilities affect your health, and it doesn't really matter which athletic abilities they are.

The most obvious thing missing is abilities that affect ''how'' you fight with a given weapon - abilities which give you an advantage to using certain classes of actions over others. For example experience competing in wrestling might improve your grappling more than it improves your striking ability. How would these abilities work? Would they add another column to the equipment list, or would they give you special modifiers (like the Grp, Atk, Par modifiers.) or would they be added directly to combat rolls? Would we have some combat modifiers be independent of the equipment list, and not affected by which weapon you use?

==Limitations==

We need to expand the coverage of limitations. Mostly these are setting/game design decisions that affect character creation and development.

* Template limitations not currently on the template:
** Sexes (based on template? Should templates have a "sexes" property?)
** Age limits (minimum age described by template, maximum age limits)
** natural abilities: I removed the following text from game design/templates/abilities: "If the ability cannot be improved by exercise or experience or can only be improved to a certain level, the ability should have a '''limit''' (Lim). This limit is the maximum number of ability levels a character of this template can develop in this ability." It seems like there are some circumstances where it would be appropriate to have this limit, for example a character might be a robot which cannot be trained to do tasks it has not already been programmed to do.
* CP Allowance
** How much CP for heroic characters?
** How much CP for super-heroic characters?
* Equipment
** starting equipment (character creation)
** shopping (character development)
* PCs vs. NPCs
** templates
** occupations
** abilities?
** equipment
* Character ability level limits?
** character creation
** training
** occupation-limited abilities?

The rest are GM-preference/style/playability/best-practices limitations:

* Maimed characters/missing limbs - the rules currently say you need the GM's permission.
* Disabilities
** A game should allow no disabilities beyond those built into the templates, or at least have limitations like one disability per character, no more than -1000 CP of disabilities, and only those disabilities that have unavoidable consequences.
** A game with a GM may have a bigger disability list because he GM can moderate the role-playing of those disabilities. Players need the GM's permission to give characters disabilities beyond template disabilities. The GM may have stricter limitations than the game requires, not allow some disabilities, or decide on a case-by-case basis.

==Ability Checks in Combat==

At times a GM might ask players to perform an ability check during a round of combat. My opinion is that players should not add their ability bonus to the check unless they specifically have established that they are using the ability. If the check is called before the player's turn and the player stated the use of the ability before the beginning of combat. The player would be allowed to add their ability bonus. If the check is called after the player's turn then the player would not be allowed to add their ability bonus the unless they specifically use at least a quick action to use the ability. --[[User:Ulrich|ulrich]] 11:00, 2005 Jul 2 (CEST)

:A classic example is watching out for traps during combat. If the traps are so well hidden that an ability roll is required, at least one of the PCs should spend a whole turn looking for traps instead of fighting. If the story requires the characters to fall into a trap, it should be impossible to find (or impossible to avoid if you do find it.) If this is not a good time in the story for the characters to fall into a trap, or if the characters have been specifically looking for traps as they go along, it doesn't make sense to ask them to make routine checks for traps. --[[User:SerpLord|SerpLord]] 15:17, 8 December 2005 (CET)

Talk:Mano a Mano

2008-01-15T20:35:58Z

75.165.109.53: BFGalbraith reversions climbing rules

==No More Success Level or Half-Success==

* Getting rid of Success Level and Half Success speeds up and simplifies the system, especially in combat.
* Without Success Level and Half Success we can have an optional fractional ability level rule.
* All the power of sharp weapons becomes damage. Half the power of blunt weapon attacks, rounded down, is damage and the rest is stun. All the power of padded weapons is stun.
* Compare the defense die roll to cover. If the roll is not higher than the cover, the armor blocks the attack, reducing the attack's power by the armor's absorption.
* A character's climbing movement determines how fast he can move while climbing. Each turn a character climbs - even if he doesn't move, make a success roll using the character's climbing ability modifier vs. the difficulty of clinging to the surface or structure the character is climbing. If the character is not trying to move, he has a +2 modifier to this roll. For a character to move and perform one quick action, he has a -2 modifier against his success. He only has a -1 modifier against his success in order to move but not perform any other actions. If the character is not successful he looses his grip and falls.

==Combos and Counters==

* Roll once for defense against each attack in a combo.
** If cover is based on defense die roll, then armor would block all or none of the successful combo moves.
* A counterattack against a combo lands if any of the combo moves fail, but all of the moves in the combo that did not fail also land.
** The current counterattack rule: "This tactic has no immediate effect, but the counterattacking character can do any attack as a defense against one attack directed at him before his next turn. (This include combos, using the normal combo attack rules, including the combo rules for attacking multiple targets.)" [[Mano a Mano:Rounds]]
** I don't know where the "combo rules for attacking multiple targets" are - or whether these rules still exist.
** Saying "the counterattacking character can do any attack ''except for a combo''" would simplify this rule a lot.
** Should we say the counterattack is limited to quick actions when the counterattacking character is injured?
** A combo would make you more vulnerable to a counter attack than a single strike. Of course, any attack makes you more vulnerable to a counter than no attack.
* Can "defense" be used as a counter? [[Mano a Mano:Maneuvering]]
** Does the +2 defense apply to the counterattack or just passive defense?
** Does the +2 defense start when you say "I'm counterattacking with a defense" or after your counterattack?
** Keep in mind that aimed and flanking counters with a +1 attack modifier are also options.

==Getting Rid of Negative Health==

It seems like everyone needs more health. See the [[Mano a Mano:Size Table]]. But increasing average health does not remove the need for negative health. Negative health lets us make creatures with less health than their athletic ability level(s). To remove this need we could change or remove the effect of athletic abilities on health. For example we could say your athletic abilities cannot give you more than twice your template health, then use a size table like this:

{| style="text-align:center"
| rowspan="10" width="200" valign="top" align="left" |
;Size Table: Health, agility and power are all related to a template's size. The following guidelines should help guide template creation, but some creatures will be stronger or weaker, quicker or clumsier than their mass would suggest.
! Health !! style="width:5em" | Agility !! Power !! style="width:7em" | Mass !! align="left" | Examples
|-
| 0 || 8 || 0 || < 10 g || align="left" | hummingbird, small bug
|-
| 1 || 7 || 1 || 10-999 g || align="left" | rat, mouse, largest insects
|-
| 2 || 6 || 2 || 1-9 kg || align="left" | cat, fox, rabbit
|-
| 3 || 5 || 3 || 10-39 kg || align="left" | dog, coyote
|-
| 4 || 4 || 4 || 40-199 kg || align="left" | human, deer, wolf
|-
| 6 || 3 || 6 || 200-999 kg || align="left" | cow, lion, horse, bear, moose
|-
| 10 || 2 || 10 || 1-9 tonnes || align="left" | giraffe, hippo, rhino, elephant
|-
| 20 || 1 || 15 || 10-99 tonnes || align="left" | largest dinosaurs
|-
| 30 || 0 || 20 || > 100 tonnes || align="left" | largest whales
|}

On the other hand if we drop the contribution of athletic abilities to health, we could allow the character health modifier (the same one used by the new build system) to be developed like an ability. (Using a size table similar to the one above) This would reduce the value of athletic abilities, so we might consider lumping them more or making them more useful. For example, acrobatics can be defined broadly enough to include climbing (there is significant overlap, such as rope climbing, pole climbing, mast climbing and parkour.)

While we are at it we could make all of the template pseudo-abilities developable: speed, agility, health and power, and get rid of strength and grip (which are basically power synonyms). In other words we would expand "build" development from character creation into ongoing character development, leading to the following new build rules:

;Personal Speed: A character can have increased or decreased speed if his template has medium or high variance. He can have a -1 or +1 speed modifier if his template speed is greater than 1. If his template speed is 1 or less he can have half or double his template speed. Reduced character speed is worth -1000 CP and increased character speed is worth +1000 CP.

{| style="text-align:center"
| align="left" valign="top" rowspan="8" width="200" |
;Personal Agility: A character can have -1 or +1 agility if his template has low, medium or high variance, -2 or +2 agility if his template has medium or high variance, and -3 or +3 agility if his template has high variance.
! Agility !! CP
|-
| -3 || -1200
|-
| -2 || -600
|-
| -1 || -200
|-
| 0 || 0
|-
| +1 || 200
|-
| +2 || 600
|-
| +3 || 1200
|}

;Personal Health: A character can have as little as 0 total health, but even very fragile characters usually have at least half of their template health. A character can have personal health up to half of his template health with low variance, as high as his template health with medium variance and up to twice his template health with high variance. Each point of health is worth 200 CP. Personal power can be negative, but it can never be low enough to reduce a character's total health below 0.

{| style="text-align:center"
| align="left" valign="top" rowspan="16" width="200" |
;Personal Power: A character can have as little as 0 total power, but even very weak characters usually have at least half of their template's power. A character can have personal power up to half of his template power with low variance, as high as his template power with medium variance and up to twice his template power with high variance.

:If a character has less than -5 personal power, each point of power below -4 decreases the character's personal power CP by 1000 CP. Personal power can never be low enough to reduce a character's total power below 0.
! Power !! CP
|-
| -4 || -2000
|-
| -3 || -1200
|-
| -2 || -600
|-
| -1 || -200
|-
| 0 || 0
|-
| 1 || 200
|-
| 2 || 600
|-
| 3 || 1200
|-
| 4 || 2000
|-
| 5 || 3000
|-
| 6 || 4200
|-
| 7 || 5600
|-
| 8 || 7200
|-
| 9 || 9000
|-
| 10 || 11000
|}

;Personal Mass: A character can have from -30% to +50% his template's average mass with low variance, from half (-50%) to double (+100%) his template's average mass with medium variance and from a third (-70%) to triple (+200%) his template's average mass with high variance.

;Personal Length and Reach: A character can have from -10% to +10% of his template's average length and reach with low variance, from -20% to +30% of his template's average length and reach with medium variance and from -30% to +50% of his template's average length and reach with high variance. Every meter of reach is worth 200 CP, every tenth of a meter of reach is worth 20 CP, and every centimeter of reach is worth 2 CP. For example, if the template reach of a weapon is 1.5 m and the character reach of the weapon is 1.8 m, then the character reach CP is 60. (1.8 m - 1.5 m = 0.3 m which is 30 cm.)

Big characters should have more health, power, mass, length and reach, while smaller characters should have less health, power, mass, length and reach. The following table is a guideline for characters with typical mass, length, health and power relationships, but characters are not required to fit these categories:

{|
! align="left" | Size
! width="5" |
! align="left" | Health, Power and Mass
! width="5" |
! align="left" | Length and Reach
|-
| tiny || || less than half average || || over 20% less than average
|-
| very small || || between 1/3 and 2/3 average || || between 10% and 30% less than average
|-
| small || || between half average and average || || between 20% less than average and average
|-
| normal || || between 2/3 average and 50% more than average || || between 10% less and 10% more than average
|-
| big || || between average and twice average || || between average and 30% more than average
|-
| very big || || between 50% more than average and three times average || || between 10% and 50% more than average
|-
| huge || || more than twice average || || over 30% more than average
|}

==Mechanical vs. Organic Characters==

Being a mechanical character is an ability with a special CP of 0, no levels and no modifiers. A mechanical character does not heal, but can be repaired using craftsmanship and abilities which allow characters to modify mechanical characters. Mechanical characters can be repaired more quickly than an organic character heals. Mechanical characters do not require surgery rolls when they are modified.

Characters who do not have this ability are called organic characters. The main difference between mechanical and organic characters is how they are affected by trauma. (A very complex robot which can heal itself but can be easily destroyed by an attempted modification might not have the mechanical character ability.) Mechanical characters do not decay as quickly as organic creatures, so they can be easier to resuscitate from fatal injuries.

:There is a question as to weather or not the characteristic of being organic vs. being mechanical should have a Character Point value. For the time being we are just trying to balance out the advantages so that this characteristic is character-point neutral.

:How fast can mechanical characters be repaired? Are repairs more like modifications or like medicine/healing rolls? If mechanical character ability had a level it might be a bonus to being repaired.

:Do mechanical characters recover from stun like normal characters? I would lean toward "yes" as there are lots of temporary mechanical problems even a simple machine can work out itself, especially autonomous and semi-autonomous robots with redundant systems (NASA probes often recover themselves after the ground crew writes them off as down for the count, and they usually have minor problems which require adjustment and slow down the mission but don't cause lasting damage.)

==Combat Abilities==

Currently we only have two kinds of combat abilities:

;Weapon Proficiency: Abilities which modify combat modifiers are weapon proficiencies, because you have one combat modifier per weapon. Weapon Proficiencies can be as specific as a single weapon or as broad as you like (you could have a weapon proficiency which applies to all weapons) but they apply to any use of the weapon's combat modifier.

;Athletic Abilities: Athletic abilities improve your health, allowing you to fight longer even when you get hurt. Your best two athletic abilities affect your health, and it doesn't really matter which athletic abilities they are.

The most obvious thing missing is abilities that affect ''how'' you fight with a given weapon - abilities which give you an advantage to using certain classes of actions over others. For example experience competing in wrestling might improve your grappling more than it improves your striking ability. How would these abilities work? Would they add another column to the equipment list, or would they give you special modifiers (like the Grp, Atk, Par modifiers.) or would they be added directly to combat rolls? Would we have some combat modifiers be independent of the equipment list, and not affected by which weapon you use?

==Limitations==

We need to expand the coverage of limitations. Mostly these are setting/game design decisions that affect character creation and development.

* Template limitations not currently on the template:
** Sexes (based on template? Should templates have a "sexes" property?)
** Age limits (minimum age described by template, maximum age limits)
** natural abilities: I removed the following text from game design/templates/abilities: "If the ability cannot be improved by exercise or experience or can only be improved to a certain level, the ability should have a '''limit''' (Lim). This limit is the maximum number of ability levels a character of this template can develop in this ability." It seems like there are some circumstances where it would be appropriate to have this limit, for example a character might be a robot which cannot be trained to do tasks it has not already been programmed to do.
* CP Allowance
** How much CP for heroic characters?
** How much CP for super-heroic characters?
* Equipment
** starting equipment (character creation)
** shopping (character development)
* PCs vs. NPCs
** templates
** occupations
** abilities?
** equipment
* Character ability level limits?
** character creation
** training
** occupation-limited abilities?

The rest are GM-preference/style/playability/best-practices limitations:

* Maimed characters/missing limbs - the rules currently say you need the GM's permission.
* Disabilities
** A game should allow no disabilities beyond those built into the templates, or at least have limitations like one disability per character, no more than -1000 CP of disabilities, and only those disabilities that have unavoidable consequences.
** A game with a GM may have a bigger disability list because he GM can moderate the role-playing of those disabilities. Players need the GM's permission to give characters disabilities beyond template disabilities. The GM may have stricter limitations than the game requires, not allow some disabilities, or decide on a case-by-case basis.

==Ability Checks in Combat==

At times a GM might ask players to perform an ability check during a round of combat. My opinion is that players should not add their ability bonus to the check unless they specifically have established that they are using the ability. If the check is called before the player's turn and the player stated the use of the ability before the beginning of combat. The player would be allowed to add their ability bonus. If the check is called after the player's turn then the player would not be allowed to add their ability bonus the unless they specifically use at least a quick action to use the ability. --[[User:Ulrich|ulrich]] 11:00, 2005 Jul 2 (CEST)

:A classic example is watching out for traps during combat. If the traps are so well hidden that an ability roll is required, at least one of the PCs should spend a whole turn looking for traps instead of fighting. If the story requires the characters to fall into a trap, it should be impossible to find (or impossible to avoid if you do find it.) If this is not a good time in the story for the characters to fall into a trap, or if the characters have been specifically looking for traps as they go along, it doesn't make sense to ask them to make routine checks for traps. --[[User:SerpLord|SerpLord]] 15:17, 8 December 2005 (CET)