RPGnet - User contributions [en]

RPG Lexica:GHI

2012-06-13T01:17:46Z

DrDucker: geocities is dead, reocities has cached copy of "Eric and the Gazebo"

==G==

;Game Balance: A catch-all term for a range of different properties which are considered desirable in a game system, related to ensuring that the game exhibits fairness and scope for creativity. Typically, these will include ensuring that each player is able to contribute an equal amount to the game (the ''Decker problem'' is an example of a failure of this); ensuring that encounters are difficult enough to be challenging but not overwhelming; ensuring that no particular game ability is necessary for every character; and similar.

;Game That Must Not Be Named, The: The role-playing game FATAL. The "...Not Be Named" label was possibly coined as a reference to Voldemort's appellation in the Harry Potter novels. The wordy phrase is often abbreviated to '''TGTMNBN'''. FATAL itself stood for "Fantasy Adventure To Adult Lechery" in the game's first edition, but was subsequently changed to "From Another Time, Another Land". FATAL "Must Not be Named" because of two inter-related reasons. First, because mentioning this game on certain web sites all but guarantees the start of a flame war about it, possibly including vigorous and verbally aggressive defense from the game's authors. Second, because by most standards of basic game design and even social decency the game is truly, truly awful. It is not just poorly conceived and written, but outright offensive.

:The most infamous and prevalent form of objectionable material is FATAL's bizarre and juvenile sexual content. For instance, character creation includes the calculation of statistics such as "Areola Size", "Vaginal Circumference Potential", and "Hymen Resistance". Worse, the game blithely condones rape as a character activity and contains many other instances of blatant misogyny, not to mention casual racism - for example. magic items included cursed armour types which would transform PCs into racial stereotypes. Of secondary concern is the monstrously overcomplicated rules system, which requires unwieldy dice rolls, convoluted mathematical formula and tables for everything the designer could conceivably make one for, many of which are bizarre, such as the infamous Magical Fumbles Table and, again, sexually obsessive, such as a formula for increased penile penetration during a certain position of intercourse.

:If such a thing is possible, FATAL generated further controversy via the infamous [http://www.rpg.net/reviews/archive/14/14567.phtml "S&M" review]: the long, extensive, profanity-strewn (and, in its own way, screamingly funny) RPG.net review by Darren MacLennan and Jason Sartin in which they basically rip the game a new one. Twwiki.rpg.netf FATAL--Byron Hall, the primary author and editor, and "Burnout"--wrote a rebuttal to the review (in which they nitpick over the tone while failing to address any of the points the review makes), and posted it on the web; a copy of this [[FATALReviewRebuttal|"Childish Review and Author's Defense of F.A.T.A.L."]] is saved on this Wiki.

;Gank: Abbreviation of "gang kill". a) To kill or defeat an enemy by ganging up on them. b) To kill or defeat an enemy trivially, with no real possibility of their being able to resist or escape, and where the killer gains no benefit from their death (not even [[XP]]). Usually used to imply that the [[player]] is having their character attack helpless enemies because of the player's need to take out stress or to somehow "punish" the [[GM]]; or vice versa, that the player characters entered a hopeless situation. Also used on online RPGs as a form of [[RPG_Lexica:GHI|griefing]].

;Gazebo: In addition to the common meaning of a pagoda or turret built to offer an attractive view, also a reference to a famous gamer comedy story: [http://www.geocities.com/rpgsig/articles/gazebo.html ''Eric and the Gazebo''], written (and copyrighted!) by Richard Arenson. In the story, the [[GM]] of a group tells them that they see a gazebo in a field they are approaching. One of the [[player]]s - Eric - does not know what a gazebo is; he therefore assumes it to be a monster and attempts to engage it in combat (which ends with Eric fleeing after multiple magical arrows amazingly failed to wound the gazebo). Used as a jokey reference to an unknown creature, or to something which has been attacked by mistake.
:By extension, may also be used to refer to a part of a description that does ''not'' have any in-game effect, to differentiate it from those that do (i.e., what the mention of the gazebo ''should'' have been). Usage: "Should we ask the priests if they can help us against those 'spooky shadows' we saw?" "Naah, I think it was just a gazebo."

;Get Medieval: to be exceptionally violent toward something or someone. See '''"I'm going to get medieval on his ass"''' From the Quentin Tarantino film ''Pulp Fiction'', used by gang boss Marcellus Wallace to the men he's just escaped from.

;GDS: An abbreviation for "game, drama, simulation". Describes the three important aspects of an [[RPG]] which are typically traded off against each other by game design: to be an enjoyable game for game's sake, to deliver a dramatic and exciting story, and to reasonable simulate what would "really" happen in particular game situations. For example, having the [[character]]s meet in a tavern and decide to work together trades simulation off for game benefit; having villains leave clues as to their activities trades simulation off for drama; fudging [[dice]] rolls so that a character who bravely charges into a fire zone to rescue an innocent is not cut to ribbons trades game off for [[drama]].

;Geek Anime theory: A theory presented in an essay by Michael Suileabhain-Wilson. It claims that a high proportion of the popularity of "high school drama" Anime series in countries outside Japan comes from the fact that the perceived dissociation of the Japanese and Western cultures prevents viewers from losing sympathy with characters based on their own high school experiences.

;Geek social fallacies: A list of five fallacies, originally presented in an essay by Michael Suileabhain-Wilson, supposedly indicating classic social errors made by "geek" types and responsible for the stereotypically dysfunctional interactions of such groups. The five geek social fallacies are:
# Once initially accepted by a peer group nobody may be excluded from anything involving that group.
# Friends may never criticize friends.
# Friends must put their friendship above all else.
# A friend-of-a-friend is a friend (thus, all of one's friends must be friends with each other).
#Friends must involve friends in all activities they do.

: The fallacies are particularly toxic in combination. For example, if a friend-of-a-friend is a friend, and all friends must be involved in activities, then every outing must accommodate a huge crowd. Similarly, if exclusion is disallowed and friends may not criticize, then people with hideous habits are not just allowed to continue to do them, they are encouraged to inflict them on the group.
:A copy of the original article is [http://www.plausiblydeniable.com/opinion/gsf.html here].

;G.I. Joe Rule: A rule in Palladium books' Rifts Ultimate Edition RPG which states the last bit of armor worn by a character can stop any amount of incoming damage. This means a character with 1 point of tattered armor remaining can be struck by a nuclear bomb inflicting thousands of points of damage, yet the character will remain unharmed as the last bit of armor absorbs all of the attack.
:This rule is called the "G.I. Joe Rule" after the 80's cartoon G.I. Joe where characters would always be seen ejecting unharmed from destroyed vehicles and characters remained completely unscathed amidst a hail of gunfire.
:Any RPG rule concocted in such a way as to prevent character harm under any circumstance, especially by bending reality to allow average humans to sustain hits by weapons of mass destruction, can be said to be a "G.I. Joe Rule."
:This term was coined by Gabriel (me!)

;Gimp
#A [[character]] who is incompetent to the point of near-unplayability in the early stages of a [[campaign]], because they are loaded down with abilities which are initially weak but become highly powerful once the character has advanced. Typically, a ''gimp'' will count on advancing based on achievements made by other members of the party and becoming incredibly powerful; either gaining in power faster or becoming more powerful overall than a non-gimp character of similar design. An example is the "venerable druid gimp" in ''[[Dungeons & Dragons]]'': a [[player]] can declare their druid character to be of venerable age, crippling their physical stats but improving their mental ones. Such a druid will be almost useless in the early stages of a game, due to their vulnerability in combat; but once the druid gains the ability to shape-shift, they can shape-shift to a form with more powerful physical stats while still retaining the bonuses to spellcasting given by the high mental stats they got for being venerable. Thus, such a character is a "gimp" up until they gain shape-shifting ability.
#As a verb: to create a gimp character, or to plan for a character to be a gimp for certain periods.
#When a character is being created at a level of advancement higher than the normal start point, choosing combinations of abilities or skills for that character that would have rendered the character unplayable at lower advancement levels had the player actually played through them. Gimping is one of the more common objections that some players and [[GM]]s have against the idea of characters starting the game having already advanced.
#To advance a skill which provides less benefit than an alternative choice would have provided. This usage comes primarily from MMORPGs; stats and skills are frequently analyzed in great detail and the optimum configuration at maximum level for a particular role is well-known. To deviate from this "min-maxed" template is to gimp your character, and the amount of deviance is the degree to which your character is said to be gimped.
:Origin: From a medieval word for a stupid or incompetent person; may also be related to a term used to refer to a particular sado-masochistic practice.

;Glass-jawed ninja problem:An issue with games where attack damage is based on degree of success and dodging is an all or nothing defense based on rolling over the attack's degree of success. This means that dodge-happy characters (ninjas) cannot suffer glancing blows or flesh wounds since any attack being good enough to beat their dodge score necessarily has a high enough degree of success that it cripples the ninja. Most modern games avoid this problem by having dodging reduce the attackers degree of success even if it doesn't allow them to avoid the attack completely.

;GMPC
:'''G'''ame '''M'''aster [[player character|'''PC''']]
#An [[NPC]] that's basically an avatar of the [[GM]] running the game. Can be acceptable and even helpful if his "divine favor" is toned down and/or used in moderation, but more often becomes something like #2:
#Derogatory term for an 'uber' NPC, one who's abilities and assistance overshadow the [[PC]]s, who is still supposedly on the PCs 'side', but manages to dominate the game because of his "divine favor".
:Note: By "divine favor" I mean things like: die rolls being adjusted in his favor, access to the setting's "bigwigs", absolutely ''amazing'' equipment (say, artifacts in ''[[Dungeons & Dragons]]'' games), being able to break inconvenient rules ([[IC]] or [[OOC]]), et cetera. Any time the GM may be said to be cheating in favor of "his" character, it's a GMPC. Also known as a '''Pet NPC'''.

;GNS: An abbreviation for "gamism, narrativism, simulationism". A system used at [[RPG Lexica:DEF|The Forge]] to categorize gamers and [[game system]]s and experiences; an advanced and more strongly defined version of GDS. See [http://www.indie-rpgs.com/_articles/glossary.html The Forge Glossary]

;Golden Rule, The: "Rules were made to be broken". Traditionally a paragraph in the beginning of a [[GM|game master]]'s section of a rulebook, the golden rule states that the game's enjoyment is paramount, and that rules are only to be enforced if it enhances the play experience. It is designed to counter rules arguments by the game master ruling that the game would be more fun if the [[player]]s were not arguing over exactly how much an obscure ruling reference benefits another player over them. It is interesting to note that ''[[Dungeons & Dragons]]'' V3.5's version of the golden rule (under adjudicating) states that rules should be changed for more logical sounding ones.

;Graininess: Role-playing games almost universally use number scales to define characters. D&D, for example, uses the now classic 3-18 scale to rate six basic attributes, such that a character with a Strength of 14 is mightier than one with a rating of 8. From a design perspective, it can be advantageous to instead use a limited scale, such as 1-6, to help keep numbers manageable. The drawback is that with a lesser range, the steps become more significant, and it can become difficult to model characters who are only slightly better or worse than each other. Designers refer to this problem as Graininess, in reference to old poor quality photographs in which large grains of pigmentation were individually visible, and thus blurred the detail of the larger image.
:In some contexts, graininess refers to the number of differentiated skills or abilities that characters may take. For example, a game with only one physical statistic (such as Body) is grainier than a game with three physical statistics (such as Strength, Agility, and Toughness). The grainier method is faster, but makes it difficult to distinguish between characters who are tough but slow and those who are weaker, but lithe and quick, and usually requires some external method for making such distinctions. By contrast, excessively "smooth" systems may require characters to be defined in terms of an unwieldy number of areas, which makes character generation slow, and produces unclear distinctions between abilities (such as Exalted, which includes both Perception and Awareness, and both Charisma and Manipulation).

;Greg, to: In use usually as '''Gregging''' or to have been '''Gregged'''. When a established aspect or detail of a setting is contradicted or outright rewritten by the setting's creator, usually with little explanation and for reasons stemming from a change in the creator's personal aesthetics. Specifically this term refers to writer Greg Stafford's tendency to treat the Glorantha setting as a work in progress, despite the fact that it was first published over twenty years ago.

;Griefing: To play a game while drawing one's main enjoyment from harassing, annoying, or hurting the game for other [[player]]s. No amount of in-game penalty will discourage a griefer from harassing other players, because - as harassing other players is their main enjoyment - they do not care about anything in the game except in terms of what harassment potential it provides. In tabletop [[RPG]]s, griefers are usually quickly ejected from the group, but they can prove more of a problem in online RPGs and other public games.

;Grudge monster
#As a noun: A [[monster]] or other dangerous opponent introduced into a game to fight or block the [[PC]]s because the [[GM]] is angry or frustrated at the [[player]]s.
#As a verb: to put a grudge monster (in sense one) in a game, and/or to attack the PCs with one.

;Guarding the horses:The "default" activity of any [[character]] whose [[player]] is not currently playing; implies that a) the player's absence is temporary, b) that the [[GM]] doesn't want to make the character an [[NPC]], and c) the character won't be doing anything [[IC]]. Started, of course, in fantasy games; has sometimes been extended to other genres, even ones without horses ("So, where's our street sam while we're raiding this lab?" "Um, guarding the cyber-horses, I guess.")

;Gygax, Gygaxian: An adjective form of the name of one of the founders of the role-playing hobby, E. Gary Gygax. When used as an adjective, Gygax's name indicates that the item so modified breaks some commonly held assumption about the world (often pertaining to the logical construction of an area). RPGnet member Steve Darlington once observed that a Gygaxian dungeon, for instance, often resembles a game of ''Let's Make a Deal'' as re-imagined by a homicidal SCAdian on PCP. ("Behind door number one: INSTANT DEATH! Behind door number 2: A magic crown! Behind door number 3: ten pounds of sugar being guarded by six giant KILLER BEES!") This style of design is generally earmarked by the following:
#Dungeons apparently designed solely for adventurers to adventure in, rather than a structure built for another purpose which has now been lost, forgotten, or re-purposed.
#The presence of monsters who, logically, have no business being where they are and would have starved to death without a constant stream of adventurers stumbling into them.
#Monsters which seem designed specifically to kill adventurers, such as a metamorph which lures prey by imitating a treasure chest.
#A profusion of remarkably deadly traps, particularly ones serving as punishment for seemingly random, innocent, and even logical actions; for example, a throne which automatically kills any character who sits in it without wearing the crown and holding the scepter, then proceeds to destroy said character's soul to prevent his resurrection.
#Traps which would tend to kill any residents who made a minor mistake such as stepping on the wrong tile or forgetting one's key.
#Cursed magic items which automatically kill or permanently harm a character attempting to use them, usually designed to function as expected until the user is in mortal danger, with the curse utterly undetectable until activated.
#An extremely overblown writing style which seems to imply excessive use of a thesaurus. This "Gygaxian prose" is best exemplified by his work in the AD&D 1st edition Dungeon Masters Guide.

==H==

;Hack and Slash: A style of gameplay wherein the main focus is combat. Attempting to talk or reason with an [[NPC]] in such a game, rather than just kill them, is most likely to result in confusion or mockery from the other [[player]]s. A close relative of the '''Dungeon Crawl''', and likewise most common in fantasy games.

;Hitpoint gain problem: A modeling difficulty arising from the use of [[hit point]]s. In many [[game system]]s, as a [[character]] improves in skill, they also gain hit points. This is intended to represent the dramatic phenomenon, seen in many fantasy films and stories, whereby more heroic characters are capable of sustaining greater amounts of [[damage]] without being visibly affected. However, systems using hit points do not distinguish between types of damage where [[drama]] would not apply, leading to the situation of highly skilled characters being able to throw themselves off 100-foot cliffs without being hurt, because they will still have plenty of hit points spare after losing those that represent the damage from the fall.

;Holding Tank: The notional part of an [[RPG]] club where new [[player]]s wait to become involved in games. Because most RPG players tend to enjoy long-term [[campaign]]s with a fixed group of a particular size, new arrivals to a club or other RPG playing venue can find themselves with no game to play in because all other players are already involved in long-term campaigns that were established before the new player arrived. The existence of the holding tank for RPGs, compared to other gaming hobbies such as miniatures or board gaming where it is not needed, is one of the reasons commonly referred to for the difficulty in recruiting new RPG players.

;Horse Bombing: Abusing a magical or supernatural ability that creates objects, and is not intended to be used as an attack, by exploiting the offensive value of generally being able to create objects from thin air. Examples include using a spell intended to provide food and water for allies, to create water or food inside an enemy's brain case; or the example that defines the term: using a spell that summons a horse for the caster to ride by casting it several hundred feet above a stationary or unaware enemy so that the horse falls on them at high velocity.

==I==

;"I'm going to get medieval on his ass"
:A quote from the movie ''Pulp Fiction'' that basically means the PCs are about to do something very violent, probably fatal, and definitely painful to whoever is referenced by 'his'. Often followed by another ''Pulp Fiction'' line: "Zed's dead, baby."

;Impossible Thing Before Breakfast: For the GM to maintain complete authorial control of the story while the players at the same time retain complete protagonist control of their characters. That is, for both the players and GM to simultaneously run the game as exclusively "their" story. Although this paradox is often unintentionally presented as the ideal model for running RPGs, it is quite possibly impossible and attempts to achieve this unattainable situation have been responsible for a lot of failed role-playing. It's coinage as a term in RPG theory is by [[Ron Edwards]] - the phrase itself originated in ''Alice in Wonderland'', where the Queen tells Alice that "sometimes I've believed as many as six impossible things before breakfast."

;Intelligence problem
:The difficulty encountered in enabling Intelligence stats to work correctly in games which have them. The problem arises from the fact that Intelligence will affect the character's ability to choose what to do next. Since making these choices for their characters is the key means by which players are involved in the RPG, these choices must be left to the player; but if they are left to the player, the choice will be made based on the ''player's'' level of intelligence, not the character's.

;Inverse Ninja Law
:A paradox in games (usually with strong martial art themes) where a sole ninja can often be a dangerous show-stopping foe, but a group of ninjas can be mowed through with ease by a group of players. Thus, the Inverse Ninja Law: Sum Ninja Effectiveness = 1/Ninjas.

;IST''x''KO
:Typically used in forum thread titles, an abbreviation for "I seek the ''x'' knowledge of", properly followed by the subject of inquiry. The variable ''x'' is the name of the forum, implying a request for the aid of the forum community as a whole. It seems to have originated on the RPGnet Tangency forum as "I seek the Tangency knowledge of" (later abbreviated "ISTTKO"), used by those seeking information on an obscure topic, often before even trying to Google for it. Replacing "Tangency" with a variable forum name came later; widely used on the RPGnet Open forum is ISTOKO (where ''x'' = Open, obviously). While this terminology originated on RPGnet, it is unknown to this contributor if its use has spread to other fora.

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[[Category:Terminology]]

FATALReviewRebuttal

2012-06-12T21:22:59Z

DrDucker: Reverting vandalism/Spam to older version

The following is Byron Hall and "Burnout"s infamous rebuttal to [http://www.rpg.net/reviews/archive/14/14567.phtml MacLennan & Sartin's infamous review] of ... well, the infamous [[Worst RPGs ever#F.A.T.A.L.|F.A.T.A.L]]. (Starting to sense a pattern here?) I'm putting it here because searching for it on the web returns a 404 error; I believe it's OK to put here, since it was a public statement placed on a public forum. Fortunately I saved a copy before it went away into the depths of 'No page found'.

I did some tweaking of the formatting (in particular, changing some colors so it would show up better on a white background), but the text is essentially unchanged--so if you hate the formatting, blame ''them''. (My notes are in black italic text.)

Note that I had to split it into five parts because of the sheer size of the file; this rebuttal quotes ''all'' of the original S&M review.

Have fun reading it... --[[User:Knockwood|Lord Knockwood the Mad]] 04:07, 18 Jun 2005 (PDT)

'''EDIT:''' All right, the legal status of this is questionable.

I ''believe'' it was intended for public consumption, as it was on the public web, and didn't have a copyright or other notice. The editing I mentioned earlier was strictly format; the ''text'' of the original was not changed.

But, who knows what evil lurks in the minds of men... especially lawyers. So, two things:
# Please do not change the text of the reviews--though ''adding'' to them is all right; and
# If someone from FATAL Games wants this removed, please send email, and we'll remove it.

I hope we can resolve this without too much conflict... --[[User:Knockwood|Lord Knockwood the Mad]] 20:19, 18 Jun 2005 (PDT)

----
CHILDISH REVIEW AND AUTHOR'S DEFENSE OF F.A.T.A.L.
Perhaps the most negative review ever written, RPG.net posted a review of F.A.T.A.L. on
4/10/3 and removed it on 4/13/3 from the following page: http://www.rpg.net/reviews/archive/9/9222.phtml ''(Long gone by now, but saved [http://atrocities.primaryerror.net/fatal.html here]. Then again, most of it is quoted here anyway. --Kwd {But [http://www.rpg.net/reviews/archive/14/14567.phtml here] as of March 2010 --MDK})''
Although it is technically not a review, but mostly an attack against me, Byron Hall, I
will demonstrate the fallacies of the authors, Darren MacLennan and Jason Sartin.
Obviously, they hate F.A.T.A.L. and anyone involved with the game. Their hatred can be
only the result of fear. They are fearful because they know it will be published. They are
fearwiki.rpg.netterial in the game is supported, and is dissimilar to anything that
attracts them. People fear what is different to them, mostly out of cognitive laziness; it
takes effort to explore what is different. Nonetheless, I appreciate the attention to the
game, and inefficient effort.
As a preface, understand that their fear caused them to react emotionally. Their
attempted review is only an emotional outburst and lacks substance.  I do not need to
rely on emotional appeals (no matter how funny and persuasive they can be), and will show
the stupidity of their arguments, point by point, with reason. Although rhetoric is
effective, it is the lowest form of debate. So that it is clear who is who, Darrens
text is yellow, Jasons is pink, and mine is FATAL red.

''('''Note:''' For the version here, the colors are different: Darren's is green, and Hall's is black--except for notes like this one, of course.)''

Burnout: I will also be commenting on this review. I am John, or
as some people know me, Burnout. I have been an active contributor to the FATAL text since
its conception. So my opinions may be very useful.
There is no God, and the proof of this can be found in a .pdf
file from [http://www.fatalgames.com Fatal Games]
I wish that were true.
If this is the first time that you've ever heard of FATAL, you're
in for a fun ride. Well, let me rephrase: You're in for a "fun ride" if you
consider a fun ride to be, say, hitting your nutsack with a tack hammer. For about four
hours.

Sartin: The nutsack/tack hammer thing wouldn't be a fun ride, but it is
preferable to actually playing FATAL.
. . .
Oh, hi. I'm [mailto:darkmind@hotmail.com Jason Sartin]. You may remember me from such classic
RPGnet moments as "the longest fucking SenZar review ever" and all those
humanity-hating and "go kill yourself already" posts I leave on Tangency. I'll
be helping Darren a lot with this review, because friends don't let friends review FATAL
alone.

Also, this is
obviously going to be one of those grandstanding "spectacle" reviews that tries
to be crowd-pleasing. Those of you who hate that kind of review should do the honorable
thing and whine your asses off in the forum below.

So, Jason establishes his credibility, or
lack thereof.  He delivers, as promised, a review congruent with his
"humanity-hating" and "kill yourself" reputation.  As I said, his
arguments lack substance, but readers will see that soon.  Could his approach be
considered juvenile?  Ask yourself this question again later.

Burnout: Ahhh what a
spectacle this review was. It got pulled off of the Website 3 days after it was posted.
Sounds crowd pleasing to me.

<blockquote>
You think I'm joking. You think that I'm exaggerating for comic
effect. But you will be nodding your head with agreement, and also holding your swollen,
bruised nutsack if you ever happen to open the FATAL .pdf up and give it anything but the
most cursory of readthroughs.
By the way, Darren fails to properly introduce himself.  He is a moderator at
RPG.net, and therefore represents their on-line community.  Obviously, he is
entertained with the thought of male readers hitting their "swollen, bruised
nutsack" with a tack hammer.  Consider the credibility, or lack thereof, of
Darren.  Consider the credibility, or lack thereof, of RPG.net, as he represents
them.

Sartin: He's not joking, people, and I wasn't, either. Those of you
wondering what the most ass-tastic RPG of all time would look like - the one whose suck
factor will forever demolish all challengers and tower over the ages with all the majesty
of a homeless, mindless, drooling, shit-obsessed, impotent moron standing on a mountain of
used Dragon Ball Z condoms - can finally die in peace. 
The arguments are
over. Anyone who says anything else is the worst RPG ever will...well, I'll inject
kerosene into my bladder, piss on them, and then set them on fire. This game sucks THAT
much.
</blockquote>

Burnout: I find the
wording Sartin uses here very contradictory to his review. Just remember this statement,
"well, I'll inject kerosene into my bladder, piss on them, and then set them on
fire."

<blockquote>
Godfuckingdammit.
We're hardly four words into the review, and already the game has dragged me down to its
level.
</blockquote>

<blockquote>
Any child can rant.  What matters is the quality of the argument.  Jason is
not being dragged anywhere, but responds like this because it is who he is, and would do
better to own up to it.  I intend to show that the substance of my argument is
superior, and that Jason should be dragged up to it.
</blockquote>

<blockquote>
So, why is it so bad?

Do tell.

'Cause it's the Necronomicon of role-playing games. Not in the
cool way, where it's a source of occult knowledge with a terrible, terrible price. It's
the Necronomicon in the sense that if you leave a printed copy on your shelf with other
RPGs, then the other RPGs will be clustered around the dead, violated body of one of its
own in the morning. FATAL will most likely be down at the station in the sex crimes
interrogation room, trying its best to put on an innocent face and failing miserably..
Sartin: Another useful comparison is that FATAL is basically anti-thought.
As you can already see, it reacts violently with real sentience.

...as opposed to unreal sentience? I'm getting bored looking for a real argument.

See, [http://www.rpg.net/news+reviews/reviews/rev_4762.html Synnibarr] was bad, but
you have to like Synnibarr. 
Yes, it's a terrible role-playing game in just about every
respect, but it's got heart; it's like a punch-drunk, half-blind boxer who hasn't realized
that his manager is now "arranging fights" by pushing him in front of a speeding
Mack truck and ringing a bell. He's going to get a license plate number embossed into his
skull, but he's still out there, still trying. 

Raven c.s. McCracken, although he's made the occasional misstep,
also seems like a decent guy; just a tad misguided when it comes to writing games. There's
an innocence to Synnibarr, a lack of subterfuge that makes it fun to think about, if not
to read. If nothing else, it's the only game that I've seen so far that has a Midnight
Sunstone Bazooka in it.
Sartin: Yeah. I like how World of Synnibarr is uniquely deranged. The
first time I read through it, I knew I would never see anything else quite like it, like
only McCracken could have made a game that's fucked up the way Synnibarr is fucked up.
It's the Plan 9 From Outer Space of RPGs...its execution was horrible, but its wrongness
has this charming quality to it, and I can't help liking it nowadays. I've actually got
more entertainment out of it than most of the "good" games I own, and I don't
regret buying it, so in a bizarre way, McCracken actually succeeded. 
But even compared to
Synnibarr's few and faint good points, FATAL doesn't have anything going for it.
Nothing at all? I can't wait to address some actual points. Can anyone say...sophistry?
Burnout: Yeah, isn't this supposed to be a review of FATAL, not
Synnibar?

It's the shitty game
to end all shitty games, and it could have been written by any 14 year old with an
obsession with rape and defecation, no design skill, a warez copy of Photoshop, and months
and months of lifeless weekends to work on it. Seriously, if Byron Hall and McCracken got
into a RPG design fight, McCracken would reduce Hall to sucking his wang so fast every
streetwalker in Las Vegas would be taking notes.
</blockquote>

Burnout: For someone
saying this game could be made by a 14-year old, Sartin sure does sound like one. I don't
remember the last time I used the word "wang." I find the players of FATAL and I
mature enough to use words like penis, dick, or cock...without giggling like Sartin
obviously is after saying "wang."

<blockquote>
FATAL - well, if Synnibarr is [http://www.timecube.com timecube.com], then
FATAL is tubgirl.com. (That last link, incidentally, is NOT WORK
SAFE IN THE SLIGHTEST.)
''(Note: I disabled the link. That's not the kind of thing you want to accidentally see. --Kwd)''
It's a product so twisted, so fundamentally broken in its attitude
towards sexuality, so unbelievably stupid that you'd think that the authors are trying to
make themselves look like they're prime candidates for institutionalization. They're not,
which makes it even scarier.

Sartin: By the way, you'll notice lots and lots of these personal attacks
on the creator and players of this game as this drags on. 
</blockquote>

I'm convinced, that's the best Jason can do.

<blockquote>
While this is bad form
in normal RPG reviews, it's hard to avoid here. For one, it's impossible for a game
designer we shouldn't insult to create a game this goddamn stupid. For another, Hall and
his personal drooling fanboys went out of their way to honor RPGnet's forums with their
personal shot at the world record for "number of flame threads started before one's
daily basement Necronomicon (Waldenbooks version) reading". And you know, I think
they won it, too.
</blockquote>

Give credit where credit is due. I did
introduce my game, but I always posted professionally and addressed actual points.  

All flames were by RPGnetters, except for when two players in my group posted aggressively
in my defense.

Burnout: As RPGnetters
know, I am one of those two. I reacted emotionally in that flamewar, which is very unusual
for me. I found it funny how during the days in question only one legitimate argument came
up...the question of why there wasn't any homosexuals in the game. Due to some good points
brought up by one person (I can't remember the name) this has since been changed.

<blockquote>
For those who weren't
there, the flame wars weren't very interesting. It was all simply another chapter in the
long-ass book of moron game designers who have created the "BEST GAEM EVAR!!!"
Except that in this chapter, the obligatory AD&D clone featured vagina circumference
stats and rape rolls, and the moron game designer's followers had all the class and brain
activity of scrotum lint.
</blockquote>

Well, Jason's certainly right, it wasn't
very interesting, mainly because the majority of the criticism was as emotional and
unsupported as you've just read.

<blockquote>
Oh, they want to be
all evil and shocking and crap. God, how pathetically they tried. I mean, imagine opening
a door to find your mother and sister raping each other with pink strap-ons. And you then
realize that you've never seen their bare asses before, because you're pretty sure you
would have remembered the swastikas tattooed there. And upon noticing you, they grin
wickedly and give you the finger in unison.
</blockquote>

<blockquote>
For the record, I've never tried to prove to RPGnetters that I'm evil and shocking. In
fact, I've never tried to prove anything to them, except that their arguments are either
emotional or poorly considered. I don't believe that Darren or Jason will ever be
reasonable in debate. I am always willing to debate anything to do with FATAL, and I will
always be professional while debating.
</blockquote>

<blockquote>
It's shocking in a way
that instantly blights out all rational thought, but later, you'll have to admit the
finger and wicked grinning part was kinda cool.

Bear in mind that Jason referred to rational thought, as though familiar with it.
That's the feeling the
FATAL morons so wish they could provoke.
</blockquote>

I think it is Darren and Jason who wish to
provoke feelings, for lack of a better approach.

<blockquote>
Instead, they're more
like opening that door to find your weeks-unwashed Otaku brother in his soiled underwear,
masturbating furiously to - of all the goddamn things in the world - an ''Archie'' comic. And
on his bare ass is a tattoo of, inexplicably, someone ''else's'' ass, and he's disgustingly
fat enough for it to be a good 14 inches across. And as he goes at it, he's quietly
moaning to himself about how worthless women, fags, and niggers are and how they should
all be raped or murdered.
</blockquote>

Wrong. I don't have a brother (Are you
projecting? What was your brother like?), a tattoo, and I don't consider women,
homosexuals, and blacks to be worthless, nor deserving of rape and murder.  If you're
suggesting that because rape is covered in the game (on 2 pages out of 900), that I
support it (it's only detailed under Overbearing in Wrestling, and Sociality...where a
footnote supports the historical accuracy), then anyone who plays nearly any role-playing
game supports murder (or killing, which may be a better definition), because murder
(killing) is usually the focus of nearly all games. I guarantee that a comparison of the
percentage of a work devoted to murder or killing is higher in other RPG's than rape is in
FATAL.

In fact, I've included numerous things with
which I diagree in FATAL, such as gods, an ethical-moral system, etc. Jason probably knows
that his conclusions are faulty, but is apparently willing to be at fault. I am not.

Burnout: I personally
think that rape and murder come up, whether behind closed doors or out in the open, in at
least 90% of gaming groups. FATAL just makes it so you see exactly how bad it actually is
by trying not to hide it or pretend it didn't happen. Instead on those pages you'll find
information supported by references on how often it happened and what happened to the
criminal. Now does this mean anybody who plays FATAL supports it? No, it simply shows that
most people try to sweep it under the rug. We know it is, unfortunately, a day-to-day
occurence.

<blockquote>
It's still disturbing
on all kinds of levels. But it's the kind of stupid disturbing that ends with you having
to answer questions to the satisfaction of a prosecuting attorney.
</blockquote>

<blockquote>
If the law must consider something to be disturbing, it is the libelous approach of
Darren and Jason.
</blockquote>

<blockquote>
Point is, the
FATALites have repeatedly proven that treating them with any respect or dignity is
pointless, so we're not going to waste your time or ours with the effort. Back in their
raving lunatic days, I had thought that Raven c.s. McCracken and the SenZar guys had been
full of it, but Byron Hall and his fellow lobotomy candidates made them look like Rebecca
Borgstrom on a prozac bender.
</blockquote>

Again, if it is to be debated as to which
party deserves respect, I'll let the reader draw their own conclusion.

Burnout: They refuse
to waste time showing dignity or respect, but spend pages upon pages showing the opposite.
I would like to state that I prefer being called a Fatalist, not a FATALite.

<blockquote>
But don't worry! None
of this will be a problem, because even if you can ignore the misogynistic, homophobic,
racist, and all-around idiotic mindset of its core supporters, FATAL blows goats with such
panache that it's hard to imagine anyone looking at it and not concluding that Hall
should've given up the needle.
By the way, you may notice that I write the "authors"
of the game, rather than "author". There's a reason for this: While the game
lists only a single author, there are many signs that lead me to believe that Ye Olde
Abominatione has more than one author, although uncredited. You'll find an explanation
later, but I just wanted to get that out of the way.
Several pages will credit a multitude of people for everything from design to
play-testing. All ideas were submitted to me, and written or re-written by me. The credits
section of FATAL will not only list people, but describe who is responsible for what. Many
have asked in e-mails why it is not part of the free version. This, I refuse to answer
until after it is printed.

Burnout: As stated earlier, I have been a contributor to this
game and know that it will be shown later. But my own words are not shown in the text
(that I know of). I bring up my views to Byron during normal conversation or game-testing,
and if disproved by scholarship it does not show up in the text. On the other hand, if
there is nothing to disprove my point and it seems logical, it will most likely be
researched and added as needed.
Sartin: Meanwhile, you'll notice I've simply gone with acting like there's
one author. What can I say? It's easier when there's only one
legendary-industry-boob-for-the-next-ten-years to blame, and the thought that another
human being actually said to him "Hey, FATAL sounds really cool. Let me contribute to
it!" is too depressing to contemplate. 
Let's start with the title page.
It's about time.
Yeah, it's that bad.

Sartin: (a la Duff Man) Oh, yeah! (/Duff Man) "FANTASY ADVENTURE TO
ADULT LECHERY" in crappy you-can-see-the-asses-of-the-little-engraved-figures font.
Right inside a border made up entirely of random "garbage" characters. 
</blockquote>

Even the moment I created this logo (I hesitate to call it that) in PhotoShop, I did not want
to use it. Currently, a logo is being designed by a professional artist. As it should be
known, the game is available free while it is being developed. Much has changed, and much
will before I'm ready to unleash it upon the world in full force. At the moment,
fatalgames.com is completely unadvertised, for the same reason. By the way, the characters
around the edge of the 'logo' actually spell FATAL and other appropriate things. I can't
wait to see the final logo!

<blockquote>
While we're on it, if you can queue up "Optimistic", by
Radiohead, you'll have a good idea of how the both of us feel right now.
Burnout: I'm unfamiliar with that song. I prefer to listen to
much more musically-complicated bands and artists.
FATAL claims to be "the most difficult, detailed, realistic
and historically/mythically accurate role-playing game available."
FATAL lives up to its claim, only the reviewers don't know it. As I refute arguments
about the game, I'll demonstrate this.
'''This is the most damnable lie I have ever seen in my history as an RPG reviewer.'''
Burnout: I just can't let this go. Show me one game where it is
more difficult to achieve goals, level-up, acquire treasure, or just stay alive. Also, I'd
like to see a game that gives you a more detailed of what skills can be done on a
day-to-day basis as well as adventuring. As far as realistic and historically/mythically
accurate, I truly believe that for the period and realm in which the game exists, it is
more accurate than anything I have seen.
In no sense is that statement true; as a matter of fact, in every
sense of the word, that statement is so false as to provide the golden mean for statements
of falsehood. FATAL is difficult only in the sense that peeling your face off a strip at a
time is difficult; detailed only in the respects that give the creators an erection;
realistic - Jesus, I can't even go into it - historically/mythically accurate only in the
sense that its creators occupy the same physical world that these myths originated upon,
and about as accurate as banging your ass on the keyboard to write the Gettysburg Address.

If you believe FATAL is not the most difficult game (soon to be) on the market, then at
least offer counter-evidence. Which game do you consider to be more difficult? If you
believe FATAL is not the most detailed game (soon to be) on the market, then at least
offer counter-evidence. Which game do you consider to be more detailed? You get the idea.
Darren makes a claim, and then offers no support.
Burnout: Even beyond that, what makes it less difficult? How is
it less detailed? Throughout their review you can make note that they never prove anything
about the difficulty or detail.
Sartin: Darren is correct, but it should be noted that this is actually a
good title page, as it neatly hints at much (though by no means all) of what sucks about
this game. 
ADULT LECHERY? Perhaps
it's nitpicking to point out the redundancy (oooh, oooh! What's next? The fantasy game of
"violent combat"? The sci-fi game of "starfaring space travel"? The
White Wolf game of "ah fuck it, just gimme the cool powers already"?), but it's
a good indicator of the level of thought that went into the whole game. And, of course, it
reminds you that this won't be just another Tolkien-clone RPG, but a ''raping and shitting''
Tolkien-clone RPG!

</blockquote>

Does Jason think before he writes? Adult
lechery could easily be different from minor lechery, which I want to avoid at all costs.
This game is for adults only, and involves lechery. Likewise, it is possible to have a
game for adults only, and that has no sexual content at all. Just the same, I was never
comfortable with the title, and see it as the opposite of G.U.R.P.S. in one respect. I
consider what GURPS stands for to be well-conceived: Generic Universal Role-Playing
System. Unfortunately, the title itself (GURPS) is unattractive, nonsensical when alone,
and a failure in marketing and branding. Conversely, FATAL seems an excellent name for the
game for many reasons. Compared to other RPG's, the game system is definitely more fatal
for a character. The beginning of the other part of the name, Fantasy Adventure, is
perfect as far as I'm concerned. I dislike 'To Adult Lechery', mainly because it places a
disproportionate degree of attention on sex. However, this is one element that separates
it from other games, so I guess it's not so horrible. Still, a better name could be spun.
I just wanted to point out that Jason was wrong, 'Adult Lechery' is not redundant.

<blockquote>
DIFFICULT? Oh, yeah.
Anyone with the force of will to endure reading all 900+ pages of this homesick abortion
of a game (without going insane and making sacrifices to sweet Azathoth for a merciful
annihilation of the universe) is no one to be fucked with. And anyone who could do that
and actually play by its anal-retentive trip to hell of a rules system (without succumbing
to Hall's probable compulsion to inhale Draino by the assloads) would have to be some kind
of demigod.
</blockquote>

Burnout: Let's just
take out the rhetoric out of that and see what happens. "Oh, yeah. Anyone with the
force of will to endure reading all 900+ pages of this...game...is no one to be fucked
with. And anyone who could do that and actually play by its...rules system...would have to
be some kind of demigod." I personally see this as a compliment. Even though I don't
consider myself a demigod, I do consider myself someone not to be fucked with. So thanks
Sartin.

<blockquote>
And yes, it's saying
difficult like it's a good thing.
But hey, ain't that
ALWAYS the eternal struggle of gaming? "Play a difficult game and get massive
headaches because it's needlessly complicated and
PC-killing-because-I-accidentally-dropped-my-rusty-dagger-and-impaled-my-favorite-intestinal-tract"
versus "Go with something that won't make me roll five times on the Random Shit
Discoloration Table every time I cast Light My Finger and thus spend more time actually
doing things"?
</blockquote>

FATAL has been played in a comparison with
AD&D 2e, and it does not generally require more die rolls (except, for example, in the
case of Crucial Damage), nor does it take longer to do anything. My question to Jason is:
have you played the game or merely thumbed through it? Whether you choose to show respect
or not, you're showing incompetence by reviewing a product without play-testing it.

Burnout: Also, it's
not needlessly PC killing. It's realistically PC killing. If you drop a dagger you're not
going to puncture an intestinal tract. But, if you get stabbed two or three times with
that rusty dagger you will have a little less than 50-50 chance of survival. Seems better
than DnD where you can get slashed by a dragon, and if high enough level, probably
survive.

<blockquote>
REALISTIC AND
HISTORICALLY/MYTHICALLY ACCURATE? Oh, I bet.
Player 1: R0XX0R! This is the best system for emulating the myths of
Heracles I've ever seen! And it's fucking sweet how all the gods, monsters, and heroes
can't do anything that wouldn't be possible in real life! 
</blockquote>

FATAL
does not specialize in ancient Greek mythology, although elements of it have been included
or influential. Faulty criticism is worthless when exposed, and discreidts only the critic
thereafter, not FATAL or myself. Does Jason understand that?

<blockquote>
Player 2: Hell,
yeah. When I was trying to get past Cerberus, he wasn't any tougher than a pit bull with
two extra rubber heads! And later, when I was masturbating on the temple altar and I
angered the gods, they didn't do anything but just Not Appear. Dude, you can't HANDLE the
realism!
</blockquote>

Burnout: Actually,
I'm quite sure Cerberus would be much more difficult in FATAL due to the size factor
causing more or less damage, depending on larger or smaller. More than likely if you got
bit by Cerberus in FATAL he would simply tear you in two. I definitely wouldn't try unless
I was using trebuchets from a great distance.

<blockquote>
Player 1: W00T! If
this were any more realistic, you'd be able to TASTE the penis length!
Player 2: Testify!
Lots of people in history had penises, so it's ultra realistic and historically accurate
to put in rules about that!
Player 1: Man, I
could cream myself just thinking about this! I can't WAIT to see if it has rules for hut
building, grass growing, nose picking, and the spread of Christianity, since people
experienced those during history, too!

</blockquote>

It is important to note that the spread of
Christianity has been removed from FATAL. This game is the most historically/mythically
accurate, given its premises. For example, it should be obvious that it is accurate to
medieval Europe, however it is noted on the first page that one exception is that gods are
assumed to exist. Therefore, the game assumes that pantheons were not replaced by
Christianity, as they were in Europe. Just the same, I am thankful Jason showed his
oversight to me. I will make it more clear so that others are not so easily confused.

<blockquote>
So, yeah. 
Okay, I gave the
subtitle more attention than it deserved. Let's just say that if Hall set out to write ONE
FUCKING LINE that instantly screams that the ensuing RPG will be very nearly as cool as
getting diagnosed with cancer and Necrotizing Fasciitis bacteria on the same day, he succeeded brilliantly.
And for the fun part, the FATAL Games logo is "Where the
dice never lie." I would suggest that the owners of FATAL Games must have dice that
come up "THIS GAME SUCKS, BEAVIS" no matter how they are thrown, or we must
chalk this up as yet another falsehood.

Sartin: Yeah, I really like that logo, too. It was nice of the FATALites
to point out that when you play games from other companies, your dice may lie to you. Ha,
I knew it! All those times I was playing D&D or SenZar, and that d20 would show a 3 or
some shit when I knew I rolled a 20. Thanks, FATAL, for showing me the way! 
</blockquote>

Jason made a logical mistake in his assumption: The subtitle "Where the Dice Never
Lie" does not necessarily imply that dice from other companies lie. In fact, the
subtitle serves a useful purpose, and has a great history. The phrase, "the dice
never lie" was coined by Jim Hausler, a good friend and contributor. Many years ago,
we were playing AD&D 2e, and whenever die-rolls were to his advantage, he bellowed
"the dice never lie!" At any rate, Fatal Games can be confused with, say,
computer games. By having 'dice' in the subtitle, it makes it clear that it is for dice
games.

<blockquote>
No, wait. This game
still proves once and for all that Darwin was an ass-grabbing fool.
</blockquote>

Darwin was a great man.

<blockquote>
Oh, and did I forget to mention that it's nine hundred pages
long?
This is why I summoned help from Jason Sartin, people.
Funny, I've introduced many to the game, and very few were overwhelmed. Some people are
more capable than others.
Sartin: Yeah, thanks. Now watch, by the end, I'll probably have to summon
someone else to help me. We'll have Justin Bacon or Scott Lynch or Elissa Carey or some
other poor bastard down here to write the closing paragraph and talk me out of climbing a
tower and shooting random basement-dwelling losers. 
Mmmmmm...killing
potential FATALites...
</blockquote>

There is a difference between games and
people. Jason seems unable to make that distinction. Why so personal?

<blockquote>
But yeah. It's nine
hundred pages long, and you can hardly turn one page without seeing something that's
desperately stupid or sucking or screaming "Look how COOL and HISTORICALLY ACCURATE
and HUGE DICKED I am, because I'm terrified you won't notice!". You can see the bind
we're in.

AD&D 2e, when considering all rulebooks, far exceeded 900 pages. I mention this
game because of its popularity. AD&D 2e, however, seemed to offer numerous books to
financially take advantage of consumers, otherwise known as a good business strategy. I
refuse to do so, and believe gamers would rather have it all together without redundancy.
I will continue to refute claims that FATAL is not historically accurate, given its
premises. So far, arguments by Darren and Jason are weak in this respect. Oh, and I
never once mentioned the size of my personal manhood, regardless of how proud of it I am.
Burnout: I would just like to take this time to do some adding.
Hmm, DnD 3e Player's Handbook, 301 pages...Dungeon Master's Guide, 256 pages...Psionics
Handbook, 156 pages. Now that's 713 right there and I know there are many more books in
the DnD 3e collection.
This is from the second page:
"For instance, assume you are an adventuring knight who has
just fought his way to the top of a dark tower where you find a comely young maiden
chained to the wall. Some may choose to free the whimpering wench. Others may free her
while hoping to win her heart. Instead of seeking affection, some may talk to her to see
if they can collect a reward for her safe return. Then again, others may be more
interested in negotiating freedom for fellatio. Some may think she has no room to bargain
and take their fleshly pleasures by force. Others would rather kill her, dismember her
young cadaver, and feast on her warm innards."
So, basically, FATAL is the date rape RPG.
Another faulty conclusion drawn by Darren. Where is dating included? More to the point,
multiple ways of role-playing are mentioned, ranging from 'good' to 'evil' (though in real
life I hesitate to use those terms). Why he focuses on rape is for him to answer. As
mentioned elsewhere, FATAL is intended to be comprehensive, and if examined, the reader
will find balance between 'good' and 'evil'.
Sartin: It's also the cock fruit, attacking turd, and (of course) gay
buttfucking ogre RPG, but one thing at a time! (It's like an express train full of things
designed to hurt your mind; just when you think that it's finished running you over,
another car hits you, grinding yet another valuable part of your soul beneath its wheels.)
</blockquote>

Obviously, it is a game that attempts to provide a balance of all things, a true system in which a
gamer can do anything they want, provided the others around the table have similar views.
For example, it's also the courtly love and chivalry RPG, but anyone who is a competent
reviewer would offer a representative sample of the game, not just that which fascinates
them.

<blockquote>
There's not really a whole lot of ways that I can get around
this: FATAL, as a whole, is your chance to stop being the good guy and start being the
soulless rapist that you and your tiny clique of brain-dead morons knew they could be. You
can come home from a long day of being shunned by anybody with a soul, wipe the Mace from
your eyes, scuttle down into the cold concrete of the basement and engage in what amounts
to a verbal circle-jerk with a clique of people just as terribly broken as you are.
Consistent with my previous comment, FATAL also provides a chance to be ethical and
moral beyond any other RPG. Although I philosophically disagree with the foundations of
the disposition system, it is more thorough and coherent in terms of ethics and morals
than any other RPG. I doubt that either Darren or Jason read the game, other than thumbing
through for ammunition to support their biases. By the way, it is best to avoid
redundancies, like a "soulless rapist". Again, Darren should think before he
writes.
Burnout: A couple of additions to that, if you don't mind, Byron.
It's also the grocery-getter, castle-building, weapon- and armor-forging, king-serving,
self-serving, or master-serving RPG. Just wanted to point out some of how many more
detailed options there are for a PC rather than just saying an NPC does all the un-fun
(for lack of a better term) acts.
Sartin: I'll cut in here to say that while being a brain-dead rapist is an
important part of the FATAL experience, there are two further aspects that make it the
visible-from-space pile of festering associty that it is. 

1) Juvenile ideas that
even the SenZar guys would've been too embarrassed to touch. You know, like magical
fumbles that cause clones to spawn from your cock, or make you shit constantly, or make
you start anal-fisting your target while trying to bite your ear, or make you recite
stupid lines that were probably ripped off from metal songs every time you cast a spell.
Or magical ingredients like vaginal yeast or the "cunt-pipe" of an elderly
virgin.
</blockquote>

Burnout: I would like
to jump in here and say that maybe the reason for the embarrassment is that they aren't
mature enough to handle such issues.

Remember when I asked you, the reader, to
consider whether or not Jason's responses are juvenile? While I admit that FATAL has some
juvenile-level humor in it, it is interesting that Jason seems to be a hypocrite: he
accuses FATAL of being juvenile, when his responses here, and elsewhere according to
himself, have a higher proportion of it, word for word, and far fewer instances of
professionalism. Thank you for remembering. 

<blockquote>
2) Rules so
mind-bogglingly stupid and complicated that you'd beg for a no holds barred
Rifts/Synnibarr crossover instead. Note that this can overlap with the juvenile ideas,
like with how likely you are to critical hit someone's clitoris, or the magical fumble
that makes your nutsack swell to 10d1000 (inches, we can only presume, it's not labeled)
for the next 3d3 days.
</blockquote>

Although Jason admits that he is unable to
comprehend the game that he reviews, its rules that are
"mind-bogglingly...complicated" support my argument that, at least for him,
FATAL is the most difficult RPG available. I'd like to rest my case, but his emotions are
running strong, so I'll continue to support this argument when necessary.

<blockquote>
But like I said, one
thing at a time.
</blockquote>

Please, don't get boggled down.

<blockquote>
While we're still on
the second page, by the way, check out that first sentence: "Welcome to a fantasy
medieval role-playing game that focuses on realism and detail whenever possible ''without
sacrificing fun.''" (Emphasis mine.)
Later, when you've
seen Hall's idea of "realism and detail without sacrificing fun", you'll be
invited to laugh bitterly with me.
</blockquote>

I'm willing to bet the reader will be
laughing at you, not with you.

<blockquote>
You know, it occurs to me that most games of FATAL are probably
played with only the one hand, since -
Ow.
OW. OW. FUCK. MY FUCKING BRAIN. OW.
Remind me not to go down that path again.
Would it do any good? I can rise above that level. Can Darren?

Sartin: Not so fast! You forgot to picture them being the only gamers who
have to wipe off their dice when they're done! I'd bet nothing but nothing will jinx your
dice faster than leaving someone's semen on them. Hell, when it happens, the FATALites
probably laugh and shout (a la Saruman) "You will taste MAN JUICE!" Ugh. (Stop
putting IMAGES INTO MY GODDAMN MIND, DAMMIT. OW!)
</blockquote>

It seems like Jason gleefully went much further with Darren's idea, but is ashamed to admit
how he thinks.

<blockquote>
See, here's the thing: Vampire is a game that can also be
classified as a date-rape game. You're a vampire, a mythic creature who's been sexualized
by about three hundred years worth of literature into a romantic creature; and yet, as a
vampire, you're stealing a part of people's bodies without their permission, every single
night. You're eventually going to kill one of them when you get a little too hungry one
night.
And do you know why Vampire is the superior game by far? Because
the game forces you to find out what you'll do to survive. If you have to drink somebody
else's blood in order to live another night, will you do it? Will you drain some bum on
the street, or stalk somebody for three hours and take only a taste? Or will you subsist
on dogs and cats? Every time you stab somebody in the throat with your fangs, drink the
blood - even if you're not thinking about it in the game - you're essentially risking
somebody else's life for your own. You can say that you're a vampire, you have to do that,
but nothing's stopping you from seeing the next sunrise except your own sense of
self-preservation, even when you're already dead. Yes, you are playing a vampire in an
RPG, but you can still kill yourself in the game and make it a valid, in-character choice.

Vampire sounds pretty limited. I have never played it, but it sounds like a game that
focuses on one race or 'occupation', in FATAL terms: a Vampire. If this is true, FATAL
offers either ten or a hundred times more role-playing possibilities, respectively. If I'm
wrong about Vampire, then my apologies to the game designers. The point of an RPG should
be to allow a gamer to play the role of anyone they desire. FATAL delivers.
Burnout: I would like to reiterate what Byron said earlier about
FATAL. I doubt anywhere in Vampire does the vampire date the victim. So Darren dont
sugarcoat it. Vampire could be described as a rape game. The low level of maturity when
dealing with controversial subjects blows my mind. Anyway, I dont really see the
difference between playing a vampire and being that unlucky gamer who rolls a random
mental illness and ends up with raptophilia. Either way youre almost forced to take
another human being by force and get what you need from them. But there is the option to
kill yourself instead. 
Sartin: Hate to cut into Darren's pathos, but the thing I remember most
from Vampire was how you can chainsaw whack someone with 8 successes and still barely hurt
them. Fucking dice pools. (Oh, hush.) 
</blockquote>

The
odds in FATAL are that if you attack a character with a weapon, then they are likely to
die. By the way, this is an obvious attempt at realism.

<blockquote>
But yes, sadly, even
in this area, Vampire is way superior to FATAL.
</blockquote>

Why does Jason never support his claim with
evidence? In the area of attacks and the likelihood of fatality, I challenge Jason to
support his claim.

<blockquote>
Burnout: I find it mockingly hilarious how Sartin says that
hitting someone with a chainsaw 8 times and having them live is better than FATAL. While
in FATAL most likely youll have trouble getting up from a footmans flail shot.
Even better eight shots. HA
</blockquote>

<blockquote>
It's in the background, but it's there. You have to make a
decision. In Vampire, it's an adult decision: Do I kill to live? In FATAL, it's "Date
rape and killing and cadavers are all cool! YEEEEEEAH! THANK YOU FOR SHOWING ME THE WAY,
SPRAY PAINT HUFFING AND SOCIAL RETARDATION!"
It's boring to continue to correct Darren for failing to represent FATAL. In FATAL, you
may have to make complicated socio-political decisions as a lord or lady, king or queen.
Did he see that in the game? Has he actually read it?
Maybe there's some subculture that's into this; judging from the
FATAL theme song, which sounds like the Cookie Monster chasing a drum kit being pushed
down a flight of stairs, I'd guess thrash metal or speed metal or metal metal or whatever
the fuck they call it nowadays.
The Cookie Monster is cool! They call that death metal.
Burnout: From what I know about the FATAL theme, it was done very
quickly and probably should be redone in a better studio version. But I definitely agree
that death metal is some of the best music out nowadays.

Sartin: Incidentally, the [http://www.hyperbooks.com/fatal/fatal.theme.sample.mp3 FATAL theme] sucked
enough to make Darren beg me to kill him. If for some reason you aren't interested in
suicide, I would recommend not listening to it. Hell, I would recommend not paying
attention to FATAL at all, but here you still are. You've got problems, people.
</blockquote>

So, Jason's best means of recommending that people pay no attention to something is to do a
lengthy, emotional review, in which conclusions are the result of flawed reason? If so,
then I have never seen this approach before.

<blockquote>
Burnout: I have only one question. Why didnt you do it
Sartin? 
</blockquote>

<blockquote>
See, even the most extreme of this stuff - say, [http://www.cannibalcorpse.net/ Cannibal Corpse] - is designed to take a stage
persona, say "Screw you, world!" for a few hours, then being regular people
again; it's born out of showmanship, like an extreme form of professional wrestling sans
the body slams. FATAL isn't a piece of showmanship; it's one of the diaries from Se7en, a
document pretending that it's perfectly normal and healthy and winds up painting its
authors as terribly, terribly maladjusted.
..."terribly, terribly"... There Darreb goes again with redundancy. FATAL is
not a piece of showmanship. It is a comprehensive game, true to its premises. By the way,
I think Cannibal Corpse is awesome musically, lyrically, and athletically.
Burnout: The only game issues that have brought up to this point
are that the game is mysogonistic, homophobic, and racist. Not to say that it
is, because there are gays in the game. Along with equal degradation of males and females,
and equal degradation of races. But, to say that none of those existed in the time period
covered by FATAL, is rather maladjusted. Beyond that if youre looking for the most
extreme of stuff I recommend looking a band called Anal Blast. Much more extreme, in my
view, than Cannibal Corpse.

Sartin: During the FATAL flame wars, Hall really did have that
psychotically calm John Doe demeanor in his posts. It might actually have been impressive,
but any chance for that went out the window when he never defended any of his bullshit
arguments or claims when MacLennan, Patrick Chipman, and everyone else started questioning
him. Well, and when I couldn't help picturing him in a lavender bunny suit as he typed.
(Okay, no, that's not originally what I was picturing him doing, but it's a
sanity-preserving substitute.)

In debates, I always remain calm and unemotional. Actually, every post is available to
anyone who desires to view them at RPGnet. Since this is verifiable, Jason either lies, or
simply doesn't know any better. I attempted to defend my claims when questioned. However,
there was hardly any questioning, and most posts resemble the level presented by Darren
and Jason in this review. When I realised, by and large, RPGnetters were aversive to
reason and driven by emotion, I stopped posting. When Darren MacLennan chose libel and
defamation of character to debate, I stopped posting. So far, my credibility must seem
immeasurably beyond that of Darren and Jason. I am credible because I am honest,
professional, and a scholar. Nothing seems to drive these two crazier. I will always be
open to debating FATAL.

And I am now on the second page.
If you want another good example of how the game's authors seem
desperate to lie to themselves, and by extension the reader, you can check out their
claims that they're not really sexually deviant; they're just including it for the purpose
of completeness. For example:

The information in this game does not represent the world-views
of Fatal Games, nor is extreme violence or extreme sex condoned by Fatal Games. Instead,
the information is included for completeness.
Although you should have put quotes on my words above, let it be known I still stand by
them.
And this weak bullshit might fly, if it weren't for the fact that
they were openly drooling over the possibility of people extorting sexual favors and/or
raping a helpless woman ''not one page before.''
It's tiring to reiterate, but I covered numerous possibilities in the example Darren
cited (by the way, I thank him for citing an example). However, he selected one
possibility at the expense of the others. Darren faiedl to represent FATAL.
Burnout: Along with failing to represent FATAL, Darren also
doesnt realize that in more than 95% of games extorting sexual favors and/or
raping is not part of the story. Having been a play-tester for a few years I can say
this with utmost assurance. 

Sartin: That, and it's a trick statement anyway. Remember that FATALites
lack the necessary balls to even approach women in real life. Their supposed
non-endorsement of rape/violence stems from cowardice, not "Hey, it's just a
game." 
</blockquote>

What Jason knows about my personal life, for example, is obviously far less than his
insinuation. For example, my wife studies bioengineering and used to be a model. I don't
think much of most college curriculums, but if my claims are true, then she is at least
reasonably intelligent and attractive. To my delight, I would argue that she is an
advanced scholar (knowing many stupid scholars, I mean a smart one), and exceedingly
beautiful. We are identical in age, and born only one week apart. She is everything to me,
and yes, she is a woman. Jason's arguments provide no substance or challenge.

<blockquote>
Burnout: I would say that goes for all Fatalists that I know as
well. That what he knows is far less than his insinuation. I refuse to get into my
personal life but Ill just say there is no lack of necessary balls or
cowardice. That being said there is also no lack of opposite gender choice for
me. I like to have options.

But hey. If you don't
want to play dirty by personally attacking the FATALites, just consider this: "Okay,
they don't condone rape, misogyny, and five hundred foot nutsacks...they're just really
proud that the overwhelming focus FATAL puts on rape, misogyny, and five hundred foot
nutsacks makes it SO much more 'realistic' and 'historically/mythically accurate' than
every other RPG available!"

If the reader considers Jason's claim, then the reader should be compelled to measure
the degree of focus on rape, for instance. This is necessary, because Jason does not do it
himself, to support his claim. There is only a focus on rape on 2 pages out of 900. Since
page numbers vary as material is added or the game is edited, I will direct your attention
to the Wrestling skill in Chapter 8: Skills. Specifically, please read the last two
paragraphs of Overbearing. Note that the female has a chance to injure the would-be
rapist. This section on rape is intended to present it realistically, not from a biased
perspective of a rapist. Elsewhere in Chap. 6: Sociality, _Medieval Prostitution_ is cited
for the information on rape in societal terms. Aside from these, there are spells
involving rape. I have not counted them or their total length in numbers of pages, and do
not consider it necessary. Please note that they are referenced from Greek Magical Papyri,
and are accurate to the translated scrolls. To make this clear, spells from Greek scrolls
have italicized titles, while spells invented by myself and others have non-italicized
titles. I have not counted spells involving rape that are either Greek or invented, but
doubt that invented spells are disproportionate in number. In short, if a reader compares
the amount of material involving rape in FATAL with material that does not, the reader
will find it to be a very small portion, and not out of line with history.

There are no instances of misogyny (woman-hating) in FATAL that outnumber instances of
man-hating (for lack of a better term). Either rarely occurs, but only misogyny is cited
by Darren and Jason.

As far as I know, the gigantic and magically altered scrotum is only a single instance
in Appendix 3: Random Magical Effects, of which there are 2,000. Most of the random
magical effects are intended as humorous, since they may include anything. However, if
anyone finds a historically accurate list of random magical effects, please contact Fatal
Games, and expect to see them included, as would be true to the premises of the game.

Doesn't really work,
does it?
</blockquote>

Your approach? No, it doesn't.

<blockquote>
Or, even better:

For instance, the detail of violence may exceed that of other
role-playing games, as crucial damage may explicitly explore the destruction of many body
parts and internal organs.
Except that what the guys at FATAL know about medical science
and/or the human body is so small as to actually suck away from the collected body of
medical knowledge; as a matter of fact, there are entire anatomy texts that are now blank
because the knowledge has been drained away to fill the terrible wound that FATAL made.
While I am not a medical doctor, I think the reader will find that my anatomy is better
than the arguments of Darren and Jason.
Sartin: Those of you who are upset that Hall took a giant piss on
anatomical science can take heart in knowing that he also soaked everything that's ever
been written about art, medieval history, and RPG design while he was at it. 
Meanwhile,
Testosticles forbid that just fucking describing an injury isn't any better than FATAL's
lame ass "Crucial Damage" charts. I mean, really:

02% Belly Button 
Opponents belly is hacked, though no critical organs behind it. The
small intestine may (70%) spill forth. If it does, the sight of this causes the opponent
to need to pass a Health check at TH 50 or be stunned for 2d4 rounds.
</blockquote>

<blockquote>
Yeah, having your
small intestine spill forth sure can be distracting! (And yes, any "It's just a flesh
wound!" jokes you want to make here are entirely appropriate. It's not a
life-threatening critical.)

Although Jason meant crucial, not critical, he failed to account for the damage.
Because of damage, which is handled prior to the chart he referenced, all Crucial Damage
is life-threatening. In fact, if he paid attention, nearly all weapon-based attacks are
life-threatening in FATAL. However, a belly button is listed as less crucial regarding
hacking a torso than, say, hacking a lumbar vertebrae. Again, Jason failed to represent
FATAL.


Further, role-playing situations that accurately represent
mythology are likely at some point to include rape, molestation, encounters in brothels or
possibly situations that deviate more from social norms.
Enjoy this first mention of "Well, because it's historical,
we're not in trouble." As much in life, the authors of FATAL use history and
mythology as they use any other source: Go through it for the dirty parts, ignore
everything else, then claim that you're entirely accurate. (And while there are myths that
deal with rape - most of them Greek - molestation, brothel visits, or giving birth to a
clone through your cock didn't appear in any of them. Nice try, though.)

Although Darren erroneously presumed to know anything about my life, he failed to
support any argument about skipping solid content and only including dirty parts. By the
way, Darren should learn that brothels existed long before, and after, Ancient Greece. In
fact, brothels were the accepted norm throughout the Middle Ages. As a reference, I cited
_Medieval Prostitution_. There is nothing dirty about notes on Roads, Mail, and Around
Town, which are sections in Chapter 6: Sociality. Of course, I can cite numerous other
examples, but Darren does not appear to support his claims, or if he does, it is with
minimum effort. Finally, random magical effects have already been discussed. If a
historical source exists, please let me know.
Burnout: I have to jump in here just to state how hypocritical
Darren is. He accuses FATAL of only taking the dirty parts of historical texts. But does
this himself when doing a review of FATAL. 
Sartin: This would be a good place to rag on the "one thousand hours
of research" the FATALites are ever so quick to bleat that Hall did when he shat out
FATAL. While many of you have been understandably skeptical of this figure, I can easily
see it. In fact, going from FATAL's end product, Hall's research probably went something
like: 
20 hours: Playing AD&D and thinking "I could so do better than
this."

</blockquote>

20
years, actually.

Burnout: 12 years here.

<blockquote>

0.4 hours: Hitting head on a toilet and becoming absolutely sure of that. 
2 hours: Being rejected by fuckable women. (If you're willing to expand the definition of
"fuckable" to include the words "within four drinks", then the final
research total can be considered well over 1,000 hours.)

</blockquote>

Judging by the level of Jason's criticism alone, I can't help but think that Jason would surely
fail a comparison between my sex life and his. Why are we even talking about sex life?

Burnout: Im just wondering. As much as Sartins criticisms are
based on the Fatalists having cowardice to approach women or being rejected by them. I
wonder if this is projection.

<blockquote>
25 hours: Huffing paint and listening to death metal.
</blockquote>

I never have "huffed" paint, but I've definitely listened to death metal,
classical, and neoclassical (and nothing else) for over a decade.

<blockquote>

0.2 hours: Composing the FATAL theme while still disoriented from the paint huffing.
</blockquote>

It's a moot point, but I don't consider the FATAL theme to be an outstanding musical work. It
was not written with that intention. Instead, it was written with a commerical intent,
which automatically sacrifices musicality. Just the same, it serves its purpose well,
until something better comes along.

<blockquote>

20 hours: Thumbing through every medieval history book that has the word
"prostitute".

</blockquote>

Does anyone know of any others that are written by respectable scholars?

<blockquote>

5 hours: Accidentally flipping through Roman or Biblical history books and either a)
mistaking them for medieval history books, or b) failing to realize that, as human society
varied drastically over the course of history, writing FATAL in a way that portrays
society being pretty much the same EVERYWHERE, ALL THE TIME and calling it
"historically accurate" is a bad move.
</blockquote>

I hope it is understood from earlier that the first fallacy made by Jason above is that in
many instances, ancient literature had to be consulted to fill-in for medieval literature
to be true to the premises of the game. For example, some argue that slaves did not exist
in medieval Europe. However, if they considered that I have attempted to extract
Christianity due to polytheism, then the prevalent slavery during the days of Rome is
appropriate.

The second fallacy is that FATAL does not portray society the same "EVERYWHERE, ALL THE
TIME".  What Jason fails to understand is that there are 2 books to FATAL. The
first, the one he pretends to have reviewed, is the system itself. The 2nd book, entitled
Neveria so far, will detail FATAL's gaming world, monsters, and gods. As the most detailed
gaming world ever, you can expect cultural and temporal variance. To Jason's credit, on
this last point, how could he have known better?

<blockquote>

0.4 hours: Mistaking a policewoman for a prostitute. 
10 hours: Flipping through anatomy and medical texts while drunk. "Yeah, I think you
could make a Health check to survive if your sternum was driven into your heart. Way
cool."

</blockquote>

Actually, I don't get drunk (though I will have a few here and there). I am not a drinker, just so
you know.

<blockquote>

2 hours: Repairing punctures in "Sexpot Annie".
</blockquote>

Projecting?

<blockquote>

5 hours: Flipping through kids' mythology books and watching Hercules: the Legendary
Journeys, and realizing (with the help of a large, skull-shaped bong) that Zeus and Odin
must have been total ass-bandits and they just left that part out, and
"mythological" just means whatever the fuck you want to make up.
</blockquote>

But, I never inhaled! Actually, I've probably only seen one or two episodes of Hercules. I
praise Bruce Campbell, but think the rest of it should rot.

<blockquote>
Burnout: I have actually seen about 10 or 15 episodes of
Hercules. For about 2 weeks I thought they were hilarious. The absolutely sad fight scenes
were funny until I realized they were trying to be serious. But none of my mythological
knowledge came from that sorry show.

10 hours: Reading up on non-cognitivism, ether theory, and physiognomy
without realizing that they're not exactly respected ideas anymore. 
900 hours: Circle jerking with Torturon, Burnout, and Psychotic Messanger (sic) of Death.
</blockquote>

Although
I included basic physiognomy and the concept of ether in FATAL, I have never respected
either (obviously). Just another instance of things I put in the game that I disagree
with, but see them as appropriate to FATAL. I wonder how much Jason knows about
noncognitivism.

<blockquote>
Burnout: I actually to a degree respect the idea of
noncognitivism. I know most people dont but its a matter of opinion, I guess.

I can't verify any of
this, of course, but it's the combination of events that would most plausibly result in
FATAL.
</blockquote>

By now, everyone who has read this should be
used to the fact that Jason supports or verifies little to nothing.

<blockquote>
By the way, did I mention that this book is 900 pages long?
Redundancy.
'Cause I'm going to be bringing it up as this review progresses.
Great.
A lot.
Wonderful.
Because you bastards owe me.
Great attitude.
Sartin: Yeah, what he said. I never thought I'd see actually wanting to
play Imagine or Palladium, but now that I've gone through FATAL, damned if I can even
remember what sucked so much about them. 
Ugh. Fuck
"owing", gentle readers. I'm coming for your young.
Burnout: Hmmm.. Short term memory loss. Are we so sure its
not Sartin who has the large, skull shaped bong."
What makes FATAL especially fun is the droning, obsessive tone of
its rules sections - for example:
Finally, observe that when these sub-abilities and abilities are
determined initially for a character, the abilities are determined for young adults. After
the sub-abilities are described and the tables presented, aging effects are illustrated
which must be referenced throughout the character's life. The last chapter details how two
abilities, Physical Fitness and Strength, may be increased through persistent exercise,
and also, an alternate rolling method is presented.

Although the current version has not been made available in over a month due to
numerous little changes, it will be possible (in the same # of pages) to also increase
Intelligence with use (or its converse). This is cited from _The Executive Brain_ and
_Owner's Manual for the Brain_. 
And there's that not-English again; where, when you rewrite it
for a review, you find yourself restructuring the way that you speak English. Sure, you
may have been able to write and/or speak it before; but then you read something like this,
and you find yourself taking sentences out into the shed at midnight, butchering them,
burying parts of them in the backyard and then redistributing what's left over the
original document as a warning to any other proper use of the language in the book. 
That was a lengthy way for Darren to say he dislikes my prose (especially since there's
little, if anything, grammatically wrong with it, while both Darren and Jason commit split
infinitives, dangling prepositions, etc. throughout their review).
Burnout: I think they just have trouble understanding Byron's
prose, is all. They actually have to think for a minute and I bet that hurts to know that
the one who created FATAL has a better understanding of the English language than they do.
Sartin: On the "bright" side, FATAL is arguably not as
mind-numbingly written as Aria or Multiverser. On the "you haven't been huffing
butane" side, that's much like saying "Okay, so I slid naked down a giant
greased razor blade, but at least I'm not the guy who was thrown into a vat of fire
ants." 

In both cases, either
outcome is totally stupid and painful, and the party responsible should be gang-beaten
with cattle prods until the God of Bitch-Slapping finally comes down and says
"Alright, I think he's had enough..." Except that in the most obnoxious case of
all these, the God would suddenly add "Oh, wait, this was for writing FATAL, wasn't
it? Here, let me recharge those for you."
Yes, I'm actually
saying that writing FATAL is more worthy of a cattle prod beating than throwing someone
into a vat of fire ants.
</blockquote>

Although you are entitled to your opinion,
you have been unable to support it.

<blockquote>
See, try this:

These abilities only represent your character at the start of his
life, so they will change as he ages; charts for this are elsewhere. Later on, we'll
detail how you can increase your Strength and Physical Fitness, as well as an alternate
method of rolling dice. Also, since you're reading FATAL, you should probably be aware
that this game sucks.
I'm sure it's obvious, but just to be safe, I never wrote a single sentence above.
Burnout: I think its quite obvious given the fact Darren
states These abilities only represent your character at the start of his life.
I could just imagine that. This is one strong baby youve got here miss.
Also the fact he doesnt state where the charts and details are for increasing
sub-abilities are at. Now I dont claim to have the greatest grasp of the English
language, as far as grammar, but Byrons writing, to me, is far easier to reference.

See? English. No [http://www.disinfo.com/pages/dossier/id94/pg1/ Grant Morrison-esque] portals
opened up into a not-world in which the English language was thrown down, danced upon and
then sodomized. Not yet, at least.
I wonder if Darren is aware that his English, at least as presented here, is worse than
that in FATAL.
Sartin: Needless to say, there aren't any editors, copyeditors,
proofreaders, or non-retards in FATAL's credits. I'm not convinced there are any human
beings, either, but we won't get into that. 
</blockquote>

As stated before, credits are not listed...yet.

<blockquote>
Burnout: Obviously not, as Sartin stated before we are demigods.
</blockquote>

<blockquote>
Instead, I'd rather
take this moment to rant that this is a great example of why editors are really damned
important if you're writing a RPG. They're not just good for correcting typos, but making
sure your writing technique does not end up sucking all that is ass. If you're not the
best writer in the history of the universe, don't end up like FATAL! Get those editors!
</blockquote>

I'm sure the reader noticed that again,
Jason did not support his claim that English is problematic in FATAL. How many times does
this need to be said? Somebody, please count.
----
[[FRRPart2|Go to part 2]]

FATALReviewRebuttal

2012-06-12T21:20:45Z

DrDucker: Reverting to older version

The following is Byron Hall and "Burnout"s infamous rebuttal to [http://www.rpg.net/reviews/archive/14/14567.phtml MacLennan & Sartin's infamous review] of ... well, the infamous [[Worst RPGs ever#F.A.T.A.L.|F.A.T.A.L]]. (Starting to sense a pattern here?) I'm putting it here because searching for it on the web returns a 404 error; I believe it's OK to put here, since it was a public statement placed on a public forum. Fortunately I saved a copy before it went away into the depths of 'No page found'.

I did some tweaking of the formatting (in particular, changing some colors so it would show up better on a white background), but the text is essentially unchanged--so if you hate the formatting, blame ''them''. (My notes are in black italic text.)

Note that I had to split it into five parts because of the sheer size of the file; this rebuttal quotes ''all'' of the original S&M review.

Have fun reading it... --[[User:Knockwood|Lord Knockwood the Mad]] 04:07, 18 Jun 2005 (PDT)

'''EDIT:''' All right, the legal status of this is questionable.

I ''believe'' it was intended for public consumption, as it was on the public web, and didn't have a copyright or other notice. The editing I mentioned earlier was strictly format; the ''text'' of the original was not changed.

But, who knows what evil lurks in the minds of men... especially lawyers. So, two things:
# Please do not change the text of the reviews--though ''adding'' to them is all right; and
# If someone from FATAL Games wants this removed, please send email, and we'll remove it.

I hope we can resolve this without too much conflict... --[[User:Knockwood|Lord Knockwood the Mad]] 20:19, 18 Jun 2005 (PDT)

----
CHILDISH REVIEW AND AUTHOR'S DEFENSE OF F.A.T.A.L.
Perhaps the most negative review ever written, RPG.net posted a review of F.A.T.A.L. on
4/10/3 and removed it on 4/13/3 from the following page: http://www.rpg.net/reviews/archive/9/9222.phtml ''(Long gone by now, but saved [http://atrocities.primaryerror.net/fatal.html here]. Then again, most of it is quoted here anyway. --Kwd {But [http://www.rpg.net/reviews/archive/14/14567.phtml here] as of March 2010 --MDK})''
Although itwiki.rpg.nett a review, but mostly an attack against me, Byron Hall, I
will demonstrate the fallacies of the authors, Darren MacLennan and Jason Sartin.
Obviously, they hate F.A.T.A.L. and anyone involved with the game. Their hatred can be
only the result of fear. They are fearful because they know it will be published. They are
fearful because the material in the game is supported, and is dissimilar to anything that
attracts them. People fear what is different to them, mostly out of cognitive laziness; it
takes effort to explore what is different. Nonetheless, I appreciate the attention to the
game, and inefficient effort.
As a preface, understand that their fear caused them to react emotionally. Their
attempted review is only an emotional outburst and lacks substance.  I do not need to
rely on emotional appeals (no matter how funny and persuasive they can be), and will show
the stupidity of their arguments, point by point, with reason. Although rhetoric is
effective, it is the lowest form of debate. So that it is clear who is who, Darrens
text is yellow, Jasons is pink, and mine is FATAL red.

''('''Note:''' For the version here, the colors are different: Darren's is green, and Hall's is black--except for notes like this one, of course.)''

Burnout: I will also be commenting on this review. I am John, or
as some people know me, Burnout. I have been an active contributor to the FATAL text since
its conception. So my opinions may be very useful.
There is no God, and the proof of this can be found in a .pdf
file from [http://www.fatalgames.com Fatal Games]
I wish that were true.
If this is the first time that you've ever heard of FATAL, you're
in for a fun ride. Well, let me rephrase: You're in for a "fun ride" if you
consider a fun ride to be, say, hitting your nutsack with a tack hammer. For about four
hours.

Sartin: The nutsack/tack hammer thing wouldn't be a fun ride, but it is
preferable to actually playing FATAL.
. . .
Oh, hi. I'm [mailto:darkmind@hotmail.com Jason Sartin]. You may remember me from such classic
RPGnet moments as "the longest fucking SenZar review ever" and all those
humanity-hating and "go kill yourself already" posts I leave on Tangency. I'll
be helping Darren a lot with this review, because friends don't let friends review FATAL
alone.

Also, this is
obviously going to be one of those grandstanding "spectacle" reviews that tries
to be crowd-pleasing. Those of you who hate that kind of review should do the honorable
thing and whine your asses off in the forum below.

So, Jason establishes his credibility, or
lack thereof.  He delivers, as promised, a review congruent with his
"humanity-hating" and "kill yourself" reputation.  As I said, his
arguments lack substance, but readers will see that soon.  Could his approach be
considered juvenile?  Ask yourself this question again later.

Burnout: Ahhh what a
spectacle this review was. It got pulled off of the Website 3 days after it was posted.
Sounds crowd pleasing to me.

<blockquote>
You think I'm joking. You think that I'm exaggerating for comic
effect. But you will be nodding your head with agreement, and also holding your swollen,
bruised nutsack if you ever happen to open the FATAL .pdf up and give it anything but the
most cursory of readthroughs.
By the way, Darren fails to properly introduce himself.  He is a moderator at
RPG.net, and therefore represents their on-line community.  Obviously, he is
entertained with the thought of male readers hitting their "swollen, bruised
nutsack" with a tack hammer.  Consider the credibility, or lack thereof, of
Darren.  Consider the credibility, or lack thereof, of RPG.net, as he represents
them.

Sartin: He's not joking, people, and I wasn't, either. Those of you
wondering what the most ass-tastic RPG of all time would look like - the one whose suck
factor will forever demolish all challengers and tower over the ages with all the majesty
of a homeless, mindless, drooling, shit-obsessed, impotent moron standing on a mountain of
used Dragon Ball Z condoms - can finally die in peace. 
The arguments are
over. Anyone who says anything else is the worst RPG ever will...well, I'll inject
kerosene into my bladder, piss on them, and then set them on fire. This game sucks THAT
much.
</blockquote>

Burnout: I find the
wording Sartin uses here very contradictory to his review. Just remember this statement,
"well, I'll inject kerosene into my bladder, piss on them, and then set them on
fire."

<blockquote>
Godfuckingdammit.
We're hardly four words into the review, and already the game has dragged me down to its
level.
</blockquote>

<blockquote>
Any child can rant.  What matters is the quality of the argument.  Jason is
not being dragged anywhere, but responds like this because it is who he is, and would do
better to own up to it.  I intend to show that the substance of my argument is
superior, and that Jason should be dragged up to it.
</blockquote>

<blockquote>
So, why is it so bad?

Do tell.

'Cause it's the Necronomicon of role-playing games. Not in the
cool way, where it's a source of occult knowledge with a terrible, terrible price. It's
the Necronomicon in the sense that if you leave a printed copy on your shelf with other
RPGs, then the other RPGs will be clustered around the dead, violated body of one of its
own in the morning. FATAL will most likely be down at the station in the sex crimes
interrogation room, trying its best to put on an innocent face and failing miserably..
Sartin: Another useful comparison is that FATAL is basically anti-thought.
As you can already see, it reacts violently with real sentience.

...as opposed to unreal sentience? I'm getting bored looking for a real argument.

See, [http://www.rpg.net/news+reviews/reviews/rev_4762.html Synnibarr] was bad, but
you have to like Synnibarr. 
Yes, it's a terrible role-playing game in just about every
respect, but it's got heart; it's like a punch-drunk, half-blind boxer who hasn't realized
that his manager is now "arranging fights" by pushing him in front of a speeding
Mack truck and ringing a bell. He's going to get a license plate number embossed into his
skull, but he's still out there, still trying. 

Raven c.s. McCracken, although he's made the occasional misstep,
also seems like a decent guy; just a tad misguided when it comes to writing games. There's
an innocence to Synnibarr, a lack of subterfuge that makes it fun to think about, if not
to read. If nothing else, it's the only game that I've seen so far that has a Midnight
Sunstone Bazooka in it.
Sartin: Yeah. I like how World of Synnibarr is uniquely deranged. The
first time I read through it, I knew I would never see anything else quite like it, like
only McCracken could have made a game that's fucked up the way Synnibarr is fucked up.
It's the Plan 9 From Outer Space of RPGs...its execution was horrible, but its wrongness
has this charming quality to it, and I can't help liking it nowadays. I've actually got
more entertainment out of it than most of the "good" games I own, and I don't
regret buying it, so in a bizarre way, McCracken actually succeeded. 
But even compared to
Synnibarr's few and faint good points, FATAL doesn't have anything going for it.
Nothing at all? I can't wait to address some actual points. Can anyone say...sophistry?
Burnout: Yeah, isn't this supposed to be a review of FATAL, not
Synnibar?

It's the shitty game
to end all shitty games, and it could have been written by any 14 year old with an
obsession with rape and defecation, no design skill, a warez copy of Photoshop, and months
and months of lifeless weekends to work on it. Seriously, if Byron Hall and McCracken got
into a RPG design fight, McCracken would reduce Hall to sucking his wang so fast every
streetwalker in Las Vegas would be taking notes.
</blockquote>

Burnout: For someone
saying this game could be made by a 14-year old, Sartin sure does sound like one. I don't
remember the last time I used the word "wang." I find the players of FATAL and I
mature enough to use words like penis, dick, or cock...without giggling like Sartin
obviously is after saying "wang."

<blockquote>
FATAL - well, if Synnibarr is [http://www.timecube.com timecube.com], then
FATAL is tubgirl.com. (That last link, incidentally, is NOT WORK
SAFE IN THE SLIGHTEST.)
''(Note: I disabled the link. That's not the kind of thing you want to accidentally see. --Kwd)''
It's a product so twisted, so fundamentally broken in its attitude
towards sexuality, so unbelievably stupid that you'd think that the authors are trying to
make themselves look like they're prime candidates for institutionalization. They're not,
which makes it even scarier.

Sartin: By the way, you'll notice lots and lots of these personal attacks
on the creator and players of this game as this drags on. 
</blockquote>

I'm convinced, that's the best Jason can do.

<blockquote>
While this is bad form
in normal RPG reviews, it's hard to avoid here. For one, it's impossible for a game
designer we shouldn't insult to create a game this goddamn stupid. For another, Hall and
his personal drooling fanboys went out of their way to honor RPGnet's forums with their
personal shot at the world record for "number of flame threads started before one's
daily basement Necronomicon (Waldenbooks version) reading". And you know, I think
they won it, too.
</blockquote>

Give credit where credit is due. I did
introduce my game, but I always posted professionally and addressed actual points.  

All flames were by RPGnetters, except for when two players in my group posted aggressively
in my defense.

Burnout: As RPGnetters
know, I am one of those two. I reacted emotionally in that flamewar, which is very unusual
for me. I found it funny how during the days in question only one legitimate argument came
up...the question of why there wasn't any homosexuals in the game. Due to some good points
brought up by one person (I can't remember the name) this has since been changed.

<blockquote>
For those who weren't
there, the flame wars weren't very interesting. It was all simply another chapter in the
long-ass book of moron game designers who have created the "BEST GAEM EVAR!!!"
Except that in this chapter, the obligatory AD&D clone featured vagina circumference
stats and rape rolls, and the moron game designer's followers had all the class and brain
activity of scrotum lint.
</blockquote>

Well, Jason's certainly right, it wasn't
very interesting, mainly because the majority of the criticism was as emotional and
unsupported as you've just read.

<blockquote>
Oh, they want to be
all evil and shocking and crap. God, how pathetically they tried. I mean, imagine opening
a door to find your mother and sister raping each other with pink strap-ons. And you then
realize that you've never seen their bare asses before, because you're pretty sure you
would have remembered the swastikas tattooed there. And upon noticing you, they grin
wickedly and give you the finger in unison.
</blockquote>

<blockquote>
For the record, I've never tried to prove to RPGnetters that I'm evil and shocking. In
fact, I've never tried to prove anything to them, except that their arguments are either
emotional or poorly considered. I don't believe that Darren or Jason will ever be
reasonable in debate. I am always willing to debate anything to do with FATAL, and I will
always be professional while debating.
</blockquote>

<blockquote>
It's shocking in a way
that instantly blights out all rational thought, but later, you'll have to admit the
finger and wicked grinning part was kinda cool.

Bear in mind that Jason referred to rational thought, as though familiar with it.
That's the feeling the
FATAL morons so wish they could provoke.
</blockquote>

I think it is Darren and Jason who wish to
provoke feelings, for lack of a better approach.

<blockquote>
Instead, they're more
like opening that door to find your weeks-unwashed Otaku brother in his soiled underwear,
masturbating furiously to - of all the goddamn things in the world - an ''Archie'' comic. And
on his bare ass is a tattoo of, inexplicably, someone ''else's'' ass, and he's disgustingly
fat enough for it to be a good 14 inches across. And as he goes at it, he's quietly
moaning to himself about how worthless women, fags, and niggers are and how they should
all be raped or murdered.
</blockquote>

Wrong. I don't have a brother (Are you
projecting? What was your brother like?), a tattoo, and I don't consider women,
homosexuals, and blacks to be worthless, nor deserving of rape and murder.  If you're
suggesting that because rape is covered in the game (on 2 pages out of 900), that I
support it (it's only detailed under Overbearing in Wrestling, and Sociality...where a
footnote supports the historical accuracy), then anyone who plays nearly any role-playing
game supports murder (or killing, which may be a better definition), because murder
(killing) is usually the focus of nearly all games. I guarantee that a comparison of the
percentage of a work devoted to murder or killing is higher in other RPG's than rape is in
FATAL.

In fact, I've included numerous things with
which I diagree in FATAL, such as gods, an ethical-moral system, etc. Jason probably knows
that his conclusions are faulty, but is apparently willing to be at fault. I am not.

Burnout: I personally
think that rape and murder come up, whether behind closed doors or out in the open, in at
least 90% of gaming groups. FATAL just makes it so you see exactly how bad it actually is
by trying not to hide it or pretend it didn't happen. Instead on those pages you'll find
information supported by references on how often it happened and what happened to the
criminal. Now does this mean anybody who plays FATAL supports it? No, it simply shows that
most people try to sweep it under the rug. We know it is, unfortunately, a day-to-day
occurence.

<blockquote>
It's still disturbing
on all kinds of levels. But it's the kind of stupid disturbing that ends with you having
to answer questions to the satisfaction of a prosecuting attorney.
</blockquote>

<blockquote>
If the law must consider something to be disturbing, it is the libelous approach of
Darren and Jason.
</blockquote>

<blockquote>
Point is, the
FATALites have repeatedly proven that treating them with any respect or dignity is
pointless, so we're not going to waste your time or ours with the effort. Back in their
raving lunatic days, I had thought that Raven c.s. McCracken and the SenZar guys had been
full of it, but Byron Hall and his fellow lobotomy candidates made them look like Rebecca
Borgstrom on a prozac bender.
</blockquote>

Again, if it is to be debated as to which
party deserves respect, I'll let the reader draw their own conclusion.

Burnout: They refuse
to waste time showing dignity or respect, but spend pages upon pages showing the opposite.
I would like to state that I prefer being called a Fatalist, not a FATALite.

<blockquote>
But don't worry! None
of this will be a problem, because even if you can ignore the misogynistic, homophobic,
racist, and all-around idiotic mindset of its core supporters, FATAL blows goats with such
panache that it's hard to imagine anyone looking at it and not concluding that Hall
should've given up the needle.
By the way, you may notice that I write the "authors"
of the game, rather than "author". There's a reason for this: While the game
lists only a single author, there are many signs that lead me to believe that Ye Olde
Abominatione has more than one author, although uncredited. You'll find an explanation
later, but I just wanted to get that out of the way.
Several pages will credit a multitude of people for everything from design to
play-testing. All ideas were submitted to me, and written or re-written by me. The credits
section of FATAL will not only list people, but describe who is responsible for what. Many
have asked in e-mails why it is not part of the free version. This, I refuse to answer
until after it is printed.

Burnout: As stated earlier, I have been a contributor to this
game and know that it will be shown later. But my own words are not shown in the text
(that I know of). I bring up my views to Byron during normal conversation or game-testing,
and if disproved by scholarship it does not show up in the text. On the other hand, if
there is nothing to disprove my point and it seems logical, it will most likely be
researched and added as needed.
Sartin: Meanwhile, you'll notice I've simply gone with acting like there's
one author. What can I say? It's easier when there's only one
legendary-industry-boob-for-the-next-ten-years to blame, and the thought that another
human being actually said to him "Hey, FATAL sounds really cool. Let me contribute to
it!" is too depressing to contemplate. 
Let's start with the title page.
It's about time.
Yeah, it's that bad.

Sartin: (a la Duff Man) Oh, yeah! (/Duff Man) "FANTASY ADVENTURE TO
ADULT LECHERY" in crappy you-can-see-the-asses-of-the-little-engraved-figures font.
Right inside a border made up entirely of random "garbage" characters. 
</blockquote>

Even the moment I created this logo (I hesitate to call it that) in PhotoShop, I did not want
to use it. Currently, a logo is being designed by a professional artist. As it should be
known, the game is available free while it is being developed. Much has changed, and much
will before I'm ready to unleash it upon the world in full force. At the moment,
fatalgames.com is completely unadvertised, for the same reason. By the way, the characters
around the edge of the 'logo' actually spell FATAL and other appropriate things. I can't
wait to see the final logo!

<blockquote>
While we're on it, if you can queue up "Optimistic", by
Radiohead, you'll have a good idea of how the both of us feel right now.
Burnout: I'm unfamiliar with that song. I prefer to listen to
much more musically-complicated bands and artists.
FATAL claims to be "the most difficult, detailed, realistic
and historically/mythically accurate role-playing game available."
FATAL lives up to its claim, only the reviewers don't know it. As I refute arguments
about the game, I'll demonstrate this.
'''This is the most damnable lie I have ever seen in my history as an RPG reviewer.'''
Burnout: I just can't let this go. Show me one game where it is
more difficult to achieve goals, level-up, acquire treasure, or just stay alive. Also, I'd
like to see a game that gives you a more detailed of what skills can be done on a
day-to-day basis as well as adventuring. As far as realistic and historically/mythically
accurate, I truly believe that for the period and realm in which the game exists, it is
more accurate than anything I have seen.
In no sense is that statement true; as a matter of fact, in every
sense of the word, that statement is so false as to provide the golden mean for statements
of falsehood. FATAL is difficult only in the sense that peeling your face off a strip at a
time is difficult; detailed only in the respects that give the creators an erection;
realistic - Jesus, I can't even go into it - historically/mythically accurate only in the
sense that its creators occupy the same physical world that these myths originated upon,
and about as accurate as banging your ass on the keyboard to write the Gettysburg Address.

If you believe FATAL is not the most difficult game (soon to be) on the market, then at
least offer counter-evidence. Which game do you consider to be more difficult? If you
believe FATAL is not the most detailed game (soon to be) on the market, then at least
offer counter-evidence. Which game do you consider to be more detailed? You get the idea.
Darren makes a claim, and then offers no support.
Burnout: Even beyond that, what makes it less difficult? How is
it less detailed? Throughout their review you can make note that they never prove anything
about the difficulty or detail.
Sartin: Darren is correct, but it should be noted that this is actually a
good title page, as it neatly hints at much (though by no means all) of what sucks about
this game. 
ADULT LECHERY? Perhaps
it's nitpicking to point out the redundancy (oooh, oooh! What's next? The fantasy game of
"violent combat"? The sci-fi game of "starfaring space travel"? The
White Wolf game of "ah fuck it, just gimme the cool powers already"?), but it's
a good indicator of the level of thought that went into the whole game. And, of course, it
reminds you that this won't be just another Tolkien-clone RPG, but a ''raping and shitting''
Tolkien-clone RPG!

</blockquote>

Does Jason think before he writes? Adult
lechery could easily be different from minor lechery, which I want to avoid at all costs.
This game is for adults only, and involves lechery. Likewise, it is possible to have a
game for adults only, and that has no sexual content at all. Just the same, I was never
comfortable with the title, and see it as the opposite of G.U.R.P.S. in one respect. I
consider what GURPS stands for to be well-conceived: Generic Universal Role-Playing
System. Unfortunately, the title itself (GURPS) is unattractive, nonsensical when alone,
and a failure in marketing and branding. Conversely, FATAL seems an excellent name for the
game for many reasons. Compared to other RPG's, the game system is definitely more fatal
for a character. The beginning of the other part of the name, Fantasy Adventure, is
perfect as far as I'm concerned. I dislike 'To Adult Lechery', mainly because it places a
disproportionate degree of attention on sex. However, this is one element that separates
it from other games, so I guess it's not so horrible. Still, a better name could be spun.
I just wanted to point out that Jason was wrong, 'Adult Lechery' is not redundant.

<blockquote>
DIFFICULT? Oh, yeah.
Anyone with the force of will to endure reading all 900+ pages of this homesick abortion
of a game (without going insane and making sacrifices to sweet Azathoth for a merciful
annihilation of the universe) is no one to be fucked with. And anyone who could do that
and actually play by its anal-retentive trip to hell of a rules system (without succumbing
to Hall's probable compulsion to inhale Draino by the assloads) would have to be some kind
of demigod.
</blockquote>

Burnout: Let's just
take out the rhetoric out of that and see what happens. "Oh, yeah. Anyone with the
force of will to endure reading all 900+ pages of this...game...is no one to be fucked
with. And anyone who could do that and actually play by its...rules system...would have to
be some kind of demigod." I personally see this as a compliment. Even though I don't
consider myself a demigod, I do consider myself someone not to be fucked with. So thanks
Sartin.

<blockquote>
And yes, it's saying
difficult like it's a good thing.
But hey, ain't that
ALWAYS the eternal struggle of gaming? "Play a difficult game and get massive
headaches because it's needlessly complicated and
PC-killing-because-I-accidentally-dropped-my-rusty-dagger-and-impaled-my-favorite-intestinal-tract"
versus "Go with something that won't make me roll five times on the Random Shit
Discoloration Table every time I cast Light My Finger and thus spend more time actually
doing things"?
</blockquote>

FATAL has been played in a comparison with
AD&D 2e, and it does not generally require more die rolls (except, for example, in the
case of Crucial Damage), nor does it take longer to do anything. My question to Jason is:
have you played the game or merely thumbed through it? Whether you choose to show respect
or not, you're showing incompetence by reviewing a product without play-testing it.

Burnout: Also, it's
not needlessly PC killing. It's realistically PC killing. If you drop a dagger you're not
going to puncture an intestinal tract. But, if you get stabbed two or three times with
that rusty dagger you will have a little less than 50-50 chance of survival. Seems better
than DnD where you can get slashed by a dragon, and if high enough level, probably
survive.

<blockquote>
REALISTIC AND
HISTORICALLY/MYTHICALLY ACCURATE? Oh, I bet.
Player 1: R0XX0R! This is the best system for emulating the myths of
Heracles I've ever seen! And it's fucking sweet how all the gods, monsters, and heroes
can't do anything that wouldn't be possible in real life! 
</blockquote>

FATAL
does not specialize in ancient Greek mythology, although elements of it have been included
or influential. Faulty criticism is worthless when exposed, and discreidts only the critic
thereafter, not FATAL or myself. Does Jason understand that?

<blockquote>
Player 2: Hell,
yeah. When I was trying to get past Cerberus, he wasn't any tougher than a pit bull with
two extra rubber heads! And later, when I was masturbating on the temple altar and I
angered the gods, they didn't do anything but just Not Appear. Dude, you can't HANDLE the
realism!
</blockquote>

Burnout: Actually,
I'm quite sure Cerberus would be much more difficult in FATAL due to the size factor
causing more or less damage, depending on larger or smaller. More than likely if you got
bit by Cerberus in FATAL he would simply tear you in two. I definitely wouldn't try unless
I was using trebuchets from a great distance.

<blockquote>
Player 1: W00T! If
this were any more realistic, you'd be able to TASTE the penis length!
Player 2: Testify!
Lots of people in history had penises, so it's ultra realistic and historically accurate
to put in rules about that!
Player 1: Man, I
could cream myself just thinking about this! I can't WAIT to see if it has rules for hut
building, grass growing, nose picking, and the spread of Christianity, since people
experienced those during history, too!

</blockquote>

It is important to note that the spread of
Christianity has been removed from FATAL. This game is the most historically/mythically
accurate, given its premises. For example, it should be obvious that it is accurate to
medieval Europe, however it is noted on the first page that one exception is that gods are
assumed to exist. Therefore, the game assumes that pantheons were not replaced by
Christianity, as they were in Europe. Just the same, I am thankful Jason showed his
oversight to me. I will make it more clear so that others are not so easily confused.

<blockquote>
So, yeah. 
Okay, I gave the
subtitle more attention than it deserved. Let's just say that if Hall set out to write ONE
FUCKING LINE that instantly screams that the ensuing RPG will be very nearly as cool as
getting diagnosed with cancer and Necrotizing Fasciitis bacteria on the same day, he succeeded brilliantly.
And for the fun part, the FATAL Games logo is "Where the
dice never lie." I would suggest that the owners of FATAL Games must have dice that
come up "THIS GAME SUCKS, BEAVIS" no matter how they are thrown, or we must
chalk this up as yet another falsehood.

Sartin: Yeah, I really like that logo, too. It was nice of the FATALites
to point out that when you play games from other companies, your dice may lie to you. Ha,
I knew it! All those times I was playing D&D or SenZar, and that d20 would show a 3 or
some shit when I knew I rolled a 20. Thanks, FATAL, for showing me the way! 
</blockquote>

Jason made a logical mistake in his assumption: The subtitle "Where the Dice Never
Lie" does not necessarily imply that dice from other companies lie. In fact, the
subtitle serves a useful purpose, and has a great history. The phrase, "the dice
never lie" was coined by Jim Hausler, a good friend and contributor. Many years ago,
we were playing AD&D 2e, and whenever die-rolls were to his advantage, he bellowed
"the dice never lie!" At any rate, Fatal Games can be confused with, say,
computer games. By having 'dice' in the subtitle, it makes it clear that it is for dice
games.

<blockquote>
No, wait. This game
still proves once and for all that Darwin was an ass-grabbing fool.
</blockquote>

Darwin was a great man.

<blockquote>
Oh, and did I forget to mention that it's nine hundred pages
long?
This is why I summoned help from Jason Sartin, people.
Funny, I've introduced many to the game, and very few were overwhelmed. Some people are
more capable than others.
Sartin: Yeah, thanks. Now watch, by the end, I'll probably have to summon
someone else to help me. We'll have Justin Bacon or Scott Lynch or Elissa Carey or some
other poor bastard down here to write the closing paragraph and talk me out of climbing a
tower and shooting random basement-dwelling losers. 
Mmmmmm...killing
potential FATALites...
</blockquote>

There is a difference between games and
people. Jason seems unable to make that distinction. Why so personal?

<blockquote>
But yeah. It's nine
hundred pages long, and you can hardly turn one page without seeing something that's
desperately stupid or sucking or screaming "Look how COOL and HISTORICALLY ACCURATE
and HUGE DICKED I am, because I'm terrified you won't notice!". You can see the bind
we're in.

AD&D 2e, when considering all rulebooks, far exceeded 900 pages. I mention this
game because of its popularity. AD&D 2e, however, seemed to offer numerous books to
financially take advantage of consumers, otherwise known as a good business strategy. I
refuse to do so, and believe gamers would rather have it all together without redundancy.
I will continue to refute claims that FATAL is not historically accurate, given its
premises. So far, arguments by Darren and Jason are weak in this respect. Oh, and I
never once mentioned the size of my personal manhood, regardless of how proud of it I am.
Burnout: I would just like to take this time to do some adding.
Hmm, DnD 3e Player's Handbook, 301 pages...Dungeon Master's Guide, 256 pages...Psionics
Handbook, 156 pages. Now that's 713 right there and I know there are many more books in
the DnD 3e collection.
This is from the second page:
"For instance, assume you are an adventuring knight who has
just fought his way to the top of a dark tower where you find a comely young maiden
chained to the wall. Some may choose to free the whimpering wench. Others may free her
while hoping to win her heart. Instead of seeking affection, some may talk to her to see
if they can collect a reward for her safe return. Then again, others may be more
interested in negotiating freedom for fellatio. Some may think she has no room to bargain
and take their fleshly pleasures by force. Others would rather kill her, dismember her
young cadaver, and feast on her warm innards."
So, basically, FATAL is the date rape RPG.
Another faulty conclusion drawn by Darren. Where is dating included? More to the point,
multiple ways of role-playing are mentioned, ranging from 'good' to 'evil' (though in real
life I hesitate to use those terms). Why he focuses on rape is for him to answer. As
mentioned elsewhere, FATAL is intended to be comprehensive, and if examined, the reader
will find balance between 'good' and 'evil'.
Sartin: It's also the cock fruit, attacking turd, and (of course) gay
buttfucking ogre RPG, but one thing at a time! (It's like an express train full of things
designed to hurt your mind; just when you think that it's finished running you over,
another car hits you, grinding yet another valuable part of your soul beneath its wheels.)
</blockquote>

Obviously, it is a game that attempts to provide a balance of all things, a true system in which a
gamer can do anything they want, provided the others around the table have similar views.
For example, it's also the courtly love and chivalry RPG, but anyone who is a competent
reviewer would offer a representative sample of the game, not just that which fascinates
them.

<blockquote>
There's not really a whole lot of ways that I can get around
this: FATAL, as a whole, is your chance to stop being the good guy and start being the
soulless rapist that you and your tiny clique of brain-dead morons knew they could be. You
can come home from a long day of being shunned by anybody with a soul, wipe the Mace from
your eyes, scuttle down into the cold concrete of the basement and engage in what amounts
to a verbal circle-jerk with a clique of people just as terribly broken as you are.
Consistent with my previous comment, FATAL also provides a chance to be ethical and
moral beyond any other RPG. Although I philosophically disagree with the foundations of
the disposition system, it is more thorough and coherent in terms of ethics and morals
than any other RPG. I doubt that either Darren or Jason read the game, other than thumbing
through for ammunition to support their biases. By the way, it is best to avoid
redundancies, like a "soulless rapist". Again, Darren should think before he
writes.
Burnout: A couple of additions to that, if you don't mind, Byron.
It's also the grocery-getter, castle-building, weapon- and armor-forging, king-serving,
self-serving, or master-serving RPG. Just wanted to point out some of how many more
detailed options there are for a PC rather than just saying an NPC does all the un-fun
(for lack of a better term) acts.
Sartin: I'll cut in here to say that while being a brain-dead rapist is an
important part of the FATAL experience, there are two further aspects that make it the
visible-from-space pile of festering associty that it is. 

1) Juvenile ideas that
even the SenZar guys would've been too embarrassed to touch. You know, like magical
fumbles that cause clones to spawn from your cock, or make you shit constantly, or make
you start anal-fisting your target while trying to bite your ear, or make you recite
stupid lines that were probably ripped off from metal songs every time you cast a spell.
Or magical ingredients like vaginal yeast or the "cunt-pipe" of an elderly
virgin.
</blockquote>

Burnout: I would like
to jump in here and say that maybe the reason for the embarrassment is that they aren't
mature enough to handle such issues.

Remember when I asked you, the reader, to
consider whether or not Jason's responses are juvenile? While I admit that FATAL has some
juvenile-level humor in it, it is interesting that Jason seems to be a hypocrite: he
accuses FATAL of being juvenile, when his responses here, and elsewhere according to
himself, have a higher proportion of it, word for word, and far fewer instances of
professionalism. Thank you for remembering. 

<blockquote>
2) Rules so
mind-bogglingly stupid and complicated that you'd beg for a no holds barred
Rifts/Synnibarr crossover instead. Note that this can overlap with the juvenile ideas,
like with how likely you are to critical hit someone's clitoris, or the magical fumble
that makes your nutsack swell to 10d1000 (inches, we can only presume, it's not labeled)
for the next 3d3 days.
</blockquote>

Although Jason admits that he is unable to
comprehend the game that he reviews, its rules that are
"mind-bogglingly...complicated" support my argument that, at least for him,
FATAL is the most difficult RPG available. I'd like to rest my case, but his emotions are
running strong, so I'll continue to support this argument when necessary.

<blockquote>
But like I said, one
thing at a time.
</blockquote>

Please, don't get boggled down.

<blockquote>
While we're still on
the second page, by the way, check out that first sentence: "Welcome to a fantasy
medieval role-playing game that focuses on realism and detail whenever possible ''without
sacrificing fun.''" (Emphasis mine.)
Later, when you've
seen Hall's idea of "realism and detail without sacrificing fun", you'll be
invited to laugh bitterly with me.
</blockquote>

I'm willing to bet the reader will be
laughing at you, not with you.

<blockquote>
You know, it occurs to me that most games of FATAL are probably
played with only the one hand, since -
Ow.
OW. OW. FUCK. MY FUCKING BRAIN. OW.
Remind me not to go down that path again.
Would it do any good? I can rise above that level. Can Darren?

Sartin: Not so fast! You forgot to picture them being the only gamers who
have to wipe off their dice when they're done! I'd bet nothing but nothing will jinx your
dice faster than leaving someone's semen on them. Hell, when it happens, the FATALites
probably laugh and shout (a la Saruman) "You will taste MAN JUICE!" Ugh. (Stop
putting IMAGES INTO MY GODDAMN MIND, DAMMIT. OW!)
</blockquote>

It seems like Jason gleefully went much further with Darren's idea, but is ashamed to admit
how he thinks.

<blockquote>
See, here's the thing: Vampire is a game that can also be
classified as a date-rape game. You're a vampire, a mythic creature who's been sexualized
by about three hundred years worth of literature into a romantic creature; and yet, as a
vampire, you're stealing a part of people's bodies without their permission, every single
night. You're eventually going to kill one of them when you get a little too hungry one
night.
And do you know why Vampire is the superior game by far? Because
the game forces you to find out what you'll do to survive. If you have to drink somebody
else's blood in order to live another night, will you do it? Will you drain some bum on
the street, or stalk somebody for three hours and take only a taste? Or will you subsist
on dogs and cats? Every time you stab somebody in the throat with your fangs, drink the
blood - even if you're not thinking about it in the game - you're essentially risking
somebody else's life for your own. You can say that you're a vampire, you have to do that,
but nothing's stopping you from seeing the next sunrise except your own sense of
self-preservation, even when you're already dead. Yes, you are playing a vampire in an
RPG, but you can still kill yourself in the game and make it a valid, in-character choice.

Vampire sounds pretty limited. I have never played it, but it sounds like a game that
focuses on one race or 'occupation', in FATAL terms: a Vampire. If this is true, FATAL
offers either ten or a hundred times more role-playing possibilities, respectively. If I'm
wrong about Vampire, then my apologies to the game designers. The point of an RPG should
be to allow a gamer to play the role of anyone they desire. FATAL delivers.
Burnout: I would like to reiterate what Byron said earlier about
FATAL. I doubt anywhere in Vampire does the vampire date the victim. So Darren dont
sugarcoat it. Vampire could be described as a rape game. The low level of maturity when
dealing with controversial subjects blows my mind. Anyway, I dont really see the
difference between playing a vampire and being that unlucky gamer who rolls a random
mental illness and ends up with raptophilia. Either way youre almost forced to take
another human being by force and get what you need from them. But there is the option to
kill yourself instead. 
Sartin: Hate to cut into Darren's pathos, but the thing I remember most
from Vampire was how you can chainsaw whack someone with 8 successes and still barely hurt
them. Fucking dice pools. (Oh, hush.) 
</blockquote>

The
odds in FATAL are that if you attack a character with a weapon, then they are likely to
die. By the way, this is an obvious attempt at realism.

<blockquote>
But yes, sadly, even
in this area, Vampire is way superior to FATAL.
</blockquote>

Why does Jason never support his claim with
evidence? In the area of attacks and the likelihood of fatality, I challenge Jason to
support his claim.

<blockquote>
Burnout: I find it mockingly hilarious how Sartin says that
hitting someone with a chainsaw 8 times and having them live is better than FATAL. While
in FATAL most likely youll have trouble getting up from a footmans flail shot.
Even better eight shots. HA
</blockquote>

<blockquote>
It's in the background, but it's there. You have to make a
decision. In Vampire, it's an adult decision: Do I kill to live? In FATAL, it's "Date
rape and killing and cadavers are all cool! YEEEEEEAH! THANK YOU FOR SHOWING ME THE WAY,
SPRAY PAINT HUFFING AND SOCIAL RETARDATION!"
It's boring to continue to correct Darren for failing to represent FATAL. In FATAL, you
may have to make complicated socio-political decisions as a lord or lady, king or queen.
Did he see that in the game? Has he actually read it?
Maybe there's some subculture that's into this; judging from the
FATAL theme song, which sounds like the Cookie Monster chasing a drum kit being pushed
down a flight of stairs, I'd guess thrash metal or speed metal or metal metal or whatever
the fuck they call it nowadays.
The Cookie Monster is cool! They call that death metal.
Burnout: From what I know about the FATAL theme, it was done very
quickly and probably should be redone in a better studio version. But I definitely agree
that death metal is some of the best music out nowadays.

Sartin: Incidentally, the [http://www.hyperbooks.com/fatal/fatal.theme.sample.mp3 FATAL theme] sucked
enough to make Darren beg me to kill him. If for some reason you aren't interested in
suicide, I would recommend not listening to it. Hell, I would recommend not paying
attention to FATAL at all, but here you still are. You've got problems, people.
</blockquote>

So, Jason's best means of recommending that people pay no attention to something is to do a
lengthy, emotional review, in which conclusions are the result of flawed reason? If so,
then I have never seen this approach before.

<blockquote>
Burnout: I have only one question. Why didnt you do it
Sartin? 
</blockquote>

<blockquote>
See, even the most extreme of this stuff - say, [http://www.cannibalcorpse.net/ Cannibal Corpse] - is designed to take a stage
persona, say "Screw you, world!" for a few hours, then being regular people
again; it's born out of showmanship, like an extreme form of professional wrestling sans
the body slams. FATAL isn't a piece of showmanship; it's one of the diaries from Se7en, a
document pretending that it's perfectly normal and healthy and winds up painting its
authors as terribly, terribly maladjusted.
..."terribly, terribly"... There Darreb goes again with redundancy. FATAL is
not a piece of showmanship. It is a comprehensive game, true to its premises. By the way,
I think Cannibal Corpse is awesome musically, lyrically, and athletically.
Burnout: The only game issues that have brought up to this point
are that the game is mysogonistic, homophobic, and racist. Not to say that it
is, because there are gays in the game. Along with equal degradation of males and females,
and equal degradation of races. But, to say that none of those existed in the time period
covered by FATAL, is rather maladjusted. Beyond that if youre looking for the most
extreme of stuff I recommend looking a band called Anal Blast. Much more extreme, in my
view, than Cannibal Corpse.

Sartin: During the FATAL flame wars, Hall really did have that
psychotically calm John Doe demeanor in his posts. It might actually have been impressive,
but any chance for that went out the window when he never defended any of his bullshit
arguments or claims when MacLennan, Patrick Chipman, and everyone else started questioning
him. Well, and when I couldn't help picturing him in a lavender bunny suit as he typed.
(Okay, no, that's not originally what I was picturing him doing, but it's a
sanity-preserving substitute.)

In debates, I always remain calm and unemotional. Actually, every post is available to
anyone who desires to view them at RPGnet. Since this is verifiable, Jason either lies, or
simply doesn't know any better. I attempted to defend my claims when questioned. However,
there was hardly any questioning, and most posts resemble the level presented by Darren
and Jason in this review. When I realised, by and large, RPGnetters were aversive to
reason and driven by emotion, I stopped posting. When Darren MacLennan chose libel and
defamation of character to debate, I stopped posting. So far, my credibility must seem
immeasurably beyond that of Darren and Jason. I am credible because I am honest,
professional, and a scholar. Nothing seems to drive these two crazier. I will always be
open to debating FATAL.

And I am now on the second page.
If you want another good example of how the game's authors seem
desperate to lie to themselves, and by extension the reader, you can check out their
claims that they're not really sexually deviant; they're just including it for the purpose
of completeness. For example:

The information in this game does not represent the world-views
of Fatal Games, nor is extreme violence or extreme sex condoned by Fatal Games. Instead,
the information is included for completeness.
Although you should have put quotes on my words above, let it be known I still stand by
them.
And this weak bullshit might fly, if it weren't for the fact that
they were openly drooling over the possibility of people extorting sexual favors and/or
raping a helpless woman ''not one page before.''
It's tiring to reiterate, but I covered numerous possibilities in the example Darren
cited (by the way, I thank him for citing an example). However, he selected one
possibility at the expense of the others. Darren faiedl to represent FATAL.
Burnout: Along with failing to represent FATAL, Darren also
doesnt realize that in more than 95% of games extorting sexual favors and/or
raping is not part of the story. Having been a play-tester for a few years I can say
this with utmost assurance. 

Sartin: That, and it's a trick statement anyway. Remember that FATALites
lack the necessary balls to even approach women in real life. Their supposed
non-endorsement of rape/violence stems from cowardice, not "Hey, it's just a
game." 
</blockquote>

What Jason knows about my personal life, for example, is obviously far less than his
insinuation. For example, my wife studies bioengineering and used to be a model. I don't
think much of most college curriculums, but if my claims are true, then she is at least
reasonably intelligent and attractive. To my delight, I would argue that she is an
advanced scholar (knowing many stupid scholars, I mean a smart one), and exceedingly
beautiful. We are identical in age, and born only one week apart. She is everything to me,
and yes, she is a woman. Jason's arguments provide no substance or challenge.

<blockquote>
Burnout: I would say that goes for all Fatalists that I know as
well. That what he knows is far less than his insinuation. I refuse to get into my
personal life but Ill just say there is no lack of necessary balls or
cowardice. That being said there is also no lack of opposite gender choice for
me. I like to have options.

But hey. If you don't
want to play dirty by personally attacking the FATALites, just consider this: "Okay,
they don't condone rape, misogyny, and five hundred foot nutsacks...they're just really
proud that the overwhelming focus FATAL puts on rape, misogyny, and five hundred foot
nutsacks makes it SO much more 'realistic' and 'historically/mythically accurate' than
every other RPG available!"

If the reader considers Jason's claim, then the reader should be compelled to measure
the degree of focus on rape, for instance. This is necessary, because Jason does not do it
himself, to support his claim. There is only a focus on rape on 2 pages out of 900. Since
page numbers vary as material is added or the game is edited, I will direct your attention
to the Wrestling skill in Chapter 8: Skills. Specifically, please read the last two
paragraphs of Overbearing. Note that the female has a chance to injure the would-be
rapist. This section on rape is intended to present it realistically, not from a biased
perspective of a rapist. Elsewhere in Chap. 6: Sociality, _Medieval Prostitution_ is cited
for the information on rape in societal terms. Aside from these, there are spells
involving rape. I have not counted them or their total length in numbers of pages, and do
not consider it necessary. Please note that they are referenced from Greek Magical Papyri,
and are accurate to the translated scrolls. To make this clear, spells from Greek scrolls
have italicized titles, while spells invented by myself and others have non-italicized
titles. I have not counted spells involving rape that are either Greek or invented, but
doubt that invented spells are disproportionate in number. In short, if a reader compares
the amount of material involving rape in FATAL with material that does not, the reader
will find it to be a very small portion, and not out of line with history.

There are no instances of misogyny (woman-hating) in FATAL that outnumber instances of
man-hating (for lack of a better term). Either rarely occurs, but only misogyny is cited
by Darren and Jason.

As far as I know, the gigantic and magically altered scrotum is only a single instance
in Appendix 3: Random Magical Effects, of which there are 2,000. Most of the random
magical effects are intended as humorous, since they may include anything. However, if
anyone finds a historically accurate list of random magical effects, please contact Fatal
Games, and expect to see them included, as would be true to the premises of the game.

Doesn't really work,
does it?
</blockquote>

Your approach? No, it doesn't.

<blockquote>
Or, even better:

For instance, the detail of violence may exceed that of other
role-playing games, as crucial damage may explicitly explore the destruction of many body
parts and internal organs.
Except that what the guys at FATAL know about medical science
and/or the human body is so small as to actually suck away from the collected body of
medical knowledge; as a matter of fact, there are entire anatomy texts that are now blank
because the knowledge has been drained away to fill the terrible wound that FATAL made.
While I am not a medical doctor, I think the reader will find that my anatomy is better
than the arguments of Darren and Jason.
Sartin: Those of you who are upset that Hall took a giant piss on
anatomical science can take heart in knowing that he also soaked everything that's ever
been written about art, medieval history, and RPG design while he was at it. 
Meanwhile,
Testosticles forbid that just fucking describing an injury isn't any better than FATAL's
lame ass "Crucial Damage" charts. I mean, really:

02% Belly Button 
Opponents belly is hacked, though no critical organs behind it. The
small intestine may (70%) spill forth. If it does, the sight of this causes the opponent
to need to pass a Health check at TH 50 or be stunned for 2d4 rounds.
</blockquote>

<blockquote>
Yeah, having your
small intestine spill forth sure can be distracting! (And yes, any "It's just a flesh
wound!" jokes you want to make here are entirely appropriate. It's not a
life-threatening critical.)

Although Jason meant crucial, not critical, he failed to account for the damage.
Because of damage, which is handled prior to the chart he referenced, all Crucial Damage
is life-threatening. In fact, if he paid attention, nearly all weapon-based attacks are
life-threatening in FATAL. However, a belly button is listed as less crucial regarding
hacking a torso than, say, hacking a lumbar vertebrae. Again, Jason failed to represent
FATAL.


Further, role-playing situations that accurately represent
mythology are likely at some point to include rape, molestation, encounters in brothels or
possibly situations that deviate more from social norms.
Enjoy this first mention of "Well, because it's historical,
we're not in trouble." As much in life, the authors of FATAL use history and
mythology as they use any other source: Go through it for the dirty parts, ignore
everything else, then claim that you're entirely accurate. (And while there are myths that
deal with rape - most of them Greek - molestation, brothel visits, or giving birth to a
clone through your cock didn't appear in any of them. Nice try, though.)

Although Darren erroneously presumed to know anything about my life, he failed to
support any argument about skipping solid content and only including dirty parts. By the
way, Darren should learn that brothels existed long before, and after, Ancient Greece. In
fact, brothels were the accepted norm throughout the Middle Ages. As a reference, I cited
_Medieval Prostitution_. There is nothing dirty about notes on Roads, Mail, and Around
Town, which are sections in Chapter 6: Sociality. Of course, I can cite numerous other
examples, but Darren does not appear to support his claims, or if he does, it is with
minimum effort. Finally, random magical effects have already been discussed. If a
historical source exists, please let me know.
Burnout: I have to jump in here just to state how hypocritical
Darren is. He accuses FATAL of only taking the dirty parts of historical texts. But does
this himself when doing a review of FATAL. 
Sartin: This would be a good place to rag on the "one thousand hours
of research" the FATALites are ever so quick to bleat that Hall did when he shat out
FATAL. While many of you have been understandably skeptical of this figure, I can easily
see it. In fact, going from FATAL's end product, Hall's research probably went something
like: 
20 hours: Playing AD&D and thinking "I could so do better than
this."

</blockquote>

20
years, actually.

Burnout: 12 years here.

<blockquote>

0.4 hours: Hitting head on a toilet and becoming absolutely sure of that. 
2 hours: Being rejected by fuckable women. (If you're willing to expand the definition of
"fuckable" to include the words "within four drinks", then the final
research total can be considered well over 1,000 hours.)

</blockquote>

Judging by the level of Jason's criticism alone, I can't help but think that Jason would surely
fail a comparison between my sex life and his. Why are we even talking about sex life?

Burnout: Im just wondering. As much as Sartins criticisms are
based on the Fatalists having cowardice to approach women or being rejected by them. I
wonder if this is projection.

<blockquote>
25 hours: Huffing paint and listening to death metal.
</blockquote>

I never have "huffed" paint, but I've definitely listened to death metal,
classical, and neoclassical (and nothing else) for over a decade.

<blockquote>

0.2 hours: Composing the FATAL theme while still disoriented from the paint huffing.
</blockquote>

It's a moot point, but I don't consider the FATAL theme to be an outstanding musical work. It
was not written with that intention. Instead, it was written with a commerical intent,
which automatically sacrifices musicality. Just the same, it serves its purpose well,
until something better comes along.

<blockquote>

20 hours: Thumbing through every medieval history book that has the word
"prostitute".

</blockquote>

Does anyone know of any others that are written by respectable scholars?

<blockquote>

5 hours: Accidentally flipping through Roman or Biblical history books and either a)
mistaking them for medieval history books, or b) failing to realize that, as human society
varied drastically over the course of history, writing FATAL in a way that portrays
society being pretty much the same EVERYWHERE, ALL THE TIME and calling it
"historically accurate" is a bad move.
</blockquote>

I hope it is understood from earlier that the first fallacy made by Jason above is that in
many instances, ancient literature had to be consulted to fill-in for medieval literature
to be true to the premises of the game. For example, some argue that slaves did not exist
in medieval Europe. However, if they considered that I have attempted to extract
Christianity due to polytheism, then the prevalent slavery during the days of Rome is
appropriate.

The second fallacy is that FATAL does not portray society the same "EVERYWHERE, ALL THE
TIME".  What Jason fails to understand is that there are 2 books to FATAL. The
first, the one he pretends to have reviewed, is the system itself. The 2nd book, entitled
Neveria so far, will detail FATAL's gaming world, monsters, and gods. As the most detailed
gaming world ever, you can expect cultural and temporal variance. To Jason's credit, on
this last point, how could he have known better?

<blockquote>

0.4 hours: Mistaking a policewoman for a prostitute. 
10 hours: Flipping through anatomy and medical texts while drunk. "Yeah, I think you
could make a Health check to survive if your sternum was driven into your heart. Way
cool."

</blockquote>

Actually, I don't get drunk (though I will have a few here and there). I am not a drinker, just so
you know.

<blockquote>

2 hours: Repairing punctures in "Sexpot Annie".
</blockquote>

Projecting?

<blockquote>

5 hours: Flipping through kids' mythology books and watching Hercules: the Legendary
Journeys, and realizing (with the help of a large, skull-shaped bong) that Zeus and Odin
must have been total ass-bandits and they just left that part out, and
"mythological" just means whatever the fuck you want to make up.
</blockquote>

But, I never inhaled! Actually, I've probably only seen one or two episodes of Hercules. I
praise Bruce Campbell, but think the rest of it should rot.

<blockquote>
Burnout: I have actually seen about 10 or 15 episodes of
Hercules. For about 2 weeks I thought they were hilarious. The absolutely sad fight scenes
were funny until I realized they were trying to be serious. But none of my mythological
knowledge came from that sorry show.

10 hours: Reading up on non-cognitivism, ether theory, and physiognomy
without realizing that they're not exactly respected ideas anymore. 
900 hours: Circle jerking with Torturon, Burnout, and Psychotic Messanger (sic) of Death.
</blockquote>

Although
I included basic physiognomy and the concept of ether in FATAL, I have never respected
either (obviously). Just another instance of things I put in the game that I disagree
with, but see them as appropriate to FATAL. I wonder how much Jason knows about
noncognitivism.

<blockquote>
Burnout: I actually to a degree respect the idea of
noncognitivism. I know most people dont but its a matter of opinion, I guess.

I can't verify any of
this, of course, but it's the combination of events that would most plausibly result in
FATAL.
</blockquote>

By now, everyone who has read this should be
used to the fact that Jason supports or verifies little to nothing.

<blockquote>
By the way, did I mention that this book is 900 pages long?
Redundancy.
'Cause I'm going to be bringing it up as this review progresses.
Great.
A lot.
Wonderful.
Because you bastards owe me.
Great attitude.
Sartin: Yeah, what he said. I never thought I'd see actually wanting to
play Imagine or Palladium, but now that I've gone through FATAL, damned if I can even
remember what sucked so much about them. 
Ugh. Fuck
"owing", gentle readers. I'm coming for your young.
Burnout: Hmmm.. Short term memory loss. Are we so sure its
not Sartin who has the large, skull shaped bong."
What makes FATAL especially fun is the droning, obsessive tone of
its rules sections - for example:
Finally, observe that when these sub-abilities and abilities are
determined initially for a character, the abilities are determined for young adults. After
the sub-abilities are described and the tables presented, aging effects are illustrated
which must be referenced throughout the character's life. The last chapter details how two
abilities, Physical Fitness and Strength, may be increased through persistent exercise,
and also, an alternate rolling method is presented.

Although the current version has not been made available in over a month due to
numerous little changes, it will be possible (in the same # of pages) to also increase
Intelligence with use (or its converse). This is cited from _The Executive Brain_ and
_Owner's Manual for the Brain_. 
And there's that not-English again; where, when you rewrite it
for a review, you find yourself restructuring the way that you speak English. Sure, you
may have been able to write and/or speak it before; but then you read something like this,
and you find yourself taking sentences out into the shed at midnight, butchering them,
burying parts of them in the backyard and then redistributing what's left over the
original document as a warning to any other proper use of the language in the book. 
That was a lengthy way for Darren to say he dislikes my prose (especially since there's
little, if anything, grammatically wrong with it, while both Darren and Jason commit split
infinitives, dangling prepositions, etc. throughout their review).
Burnout: I think they just have trouble understanding Byron's
prose, is all. They actually have to think for a minute and I bet that hurts to know that
the one who created FATAL has a better understanding of the English language than they do.
Sartin: On the "bright" side, FATAL is arguably not as
mind-numbingly written as Aria or Multiverser. On the "you haven't been huffing
butane" side, that's much like saying "Okay, so I slid naked down a giant
greased razor blade, but at least I'm not the guy who was thrown into a vat of fire
ants." 

In both cases, either
outcome is totally stupid and painful, and the party responsible should be gang-beaten
with cattle prods until the God of Bitch-Slapping finally comes down and says
"Alright, I think he's had enough..." Except that in the most obnoxious case of
all these, the God would suddenly add "Oh, wait, this was for writing FATAL, wasn't
it? Here, let me recharge those for you."
Yes, I'm actually
saying that writing FATAL is more worthy of a cattle prod beating than throwing someone
into a vat of fire ants.
</blockquote>

Although you are entitled to your opinion,
you have been unable to support it.

<blockquote>
See, try this:

These abilities only represent your character at the start of his
life, so they will change as he ages; charts for this are elsewhere. Later on, we'll
detail how you can increase your Strength and Physical Fitness, as well as an alternate
method of rolling dice. Also, since you're reading FATAL, you should probably be aware
that this game sucks.
I'm sure it's obvious, but just to be safe, I never wrote a single sentence above.
Burnout: I think its quite obvious given the fact Darren
states These abilities only represent your character at the start of his life.
I could just imagine that. This is one strong baby youve got here miss.
Also the fact he doesnt state where the charts and details are for increasing
sub-abilities are at. Now I dont claim to have the greatest grasp of the English
language, as far as grammar, but Byrons writing, to me, is far easier to reference.

See? English. No [http://www.disinfo.com/pages/dossier/id94/pg1/ Grant Morrison-esque] portals
opened up into a not-world in which the English language was thrown down, danced upon and
then sodomized. Not yet, at least.
I wonder if Darren is aware that his English, at least as presented here, is worse than
that in FATAL.
Sartin: Needless to say, there aren't any editors, copyeditors,
proofreaders, or non-retards in FATAL's credits. I'm not convinced there are any human
beings, either, but we won't get into that. 
</blockquote>

As stated before, credits are not listed...yet.

<blockquote>
Burnout: Obviously not, as Sartin stated before we are demigods.
</blockquote>

<blockquote>
Instead, I'd rather
take this moment to rant that this is a great example of why editors are really damned
important if you're writing a RPG. They're not just good for correcting typos, but making
sure your writing technique does not end up sucking all that is ass. If you're not the
best writer in the history of the universe, don't end up like FATAL! Get those editors!
</blockquote>

I'm sure the reader noticed that again,
Jason did not support his claim that English is problematic in FATAL. How many times does
this need to be said? Somebody, please count.
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[[FRRPart2|Go to part 2]]

Pokéthulhu RPG Campaigns: Main Page

2010-04-29T02:16:47Z

DrDucker: /* The Pokéthulhu Playpen Sites */

[[Image:Pokethulhu logo.jpg|frame]] '''''That is not dead which can eternal lie,''''' '''''and with strange aeons even death may die!''''' ''To bring down our masters on an icy night,'' ''And to claim the power when the stars are right . . .'' '''''Derleth!''''' '''''Bloch!''''' ''Team Eibon! Stand fast to resist our rage . . .'' ''Or flee to the safety of a new dark age!'' 
 

==THE POKENOMICON==
'''“pocket - eldritch dread spawn”''' New International Pokénomicon (NIP) NIP Study Grimoire -1981 ''Released at the World Convention for the Study of Cuddly Evil (WCSCE). The over 400 known species entries refer to episodes from the first four seasons of the show (1999-2002)…'' '''~ a contradiction in terms ~'''
* [[POKENOMICON - Official]]: herein lie the 'thulhu that have been catelogued by the Great Old Cultists, officially recognized in Pokéthulhupublications or offical websites.
* [[POKENOMICON - UN-Official]]: herein lie the 'thulhu that have been catelogued by non-affiliated Cultists, created by fans of the game.

==[[POKETHULHU TELEVISION SERIES EPISODE GUIDE]]==
This is a list of episodes of the fictional Pokéthulhu cartoon program. The names and numbers of all episodes have been pulled directly from the descriptions of the Pokéthulhu. There have been a total of four official seasons of the program, although the rumors of fan created fifth and potentially sixth seasons abound. Each season consisted of one hundred episodes, each roughly 10 minutes in length. When aired, however, three to five episodes were usually condensed into a single show. The reason for this unusual episode configuration has never been revealed.
* [[POKETHULHU_TELEVISION_SERIES_EPISODE_GUIDE#First_Season|Pokéthulhu Season 1]]
* [[POKETHULHU_TELEVISION_SERIES_EPISODE_GUIDE#Second_Season|Pokéthulhu Season 2]]
* [[POKETHULHU_TELEVISION_SERIES_EPISODE_GUIDE#Third_Season|Pokéthulhu Season 3]]
* [[POKETHULHU_TELEVISION_SERIES_EPISODE_GUIDE#Fourth_Season|Pokéthulhu Season 4]]
* [[Un-Official Series Episodes]]

==OFFICIAL RPG RULES, ERRATA & FAN HOUSE RULES==
* the [http://www222.pair.com/sjohn/pokethulhu.htm '''Pokéthulhu Adventure Game''' FREE PDF Rule set]: Follow this link to Cumberland's official Pokéthulhu site, where you can download the free game in PDF format.
* the '''Official Rule Errata'''
* the '''Fan House Rules'''
** [[Trapping Attacks in Pokéthulhu]]
[[Image:Pokethulhu frontcover.jpg|frame|See here the front cover for the printed version of the '''Pokéthulhu Adventure Game, 2nd Edition'''.]]

==FAN CREATED CAMPAIGNS & RESOURCES==
* [inset title here - coming soon]: designed by Kevin Perrine, co-created by our player character group.
* [[ADVENTURE: "Dog Gone Time"]]: a short-shot by Michael Florian. This adventure was untiltled, Kevin Perrine created the title.
* [[ADVENTURE: "Wilmartha's Ghost" or "Smoked-Meat Dreams"]]: a short-shot by Kenneth Coble.
* [http://www.teuton.org/~stranger/GAMES/pokethulhu/sunnich.html ADVENTURE: Saving New Sunnich]: A reasonable length one-episode game set in New Sunnich

==SEE ALSO==
* [http://www222.pair.com/sjohn/pokethulhu.htm The Pokéthulhu Adventure Game]: This is the home site for tPAG.
* [http://www222.pair.com/sjohn/cumberland.htm Cumberland Games]: The publishers of tPAG.
* [[wikipedia:Category:Comedy role-playing games|Category:Comedy role-playing games]]
* [[wikipedia:Category:Horror role-playing games|Category:Horror role-playing games]]

===The Pokéthulhu Playpen Sites===
''"Herein lies the page which, among many other excellent things, enshrines the Cthonyx typo, inspiring me to preserve it for all time in the game!"'' --S. John Ross
* [http://www222.pair.com/sjohn/free/activity.zip excerpted from The Pokéthulhu Coloring and Activity Book]: Just for kicks, here's a scrap of something that may amuse ... 50k ZIPped PDF document.
* [http://www.ruf.rice.edu/~pound/pokethulhu.html Groovy Random Name Generator!]
* [http://www.geocities.com/aewinogl/pokecon.htm "My Little Pokénomicon"]
* [http://www.geocities.com/eyeoflucifersam/pokethulhu/ Pokénomicon: The Self-Proclaimed "First Pokéthulhu Site"]
* [http://www.gamespy.com/comics/kovalic/pokethulhu/ The Dork Storm Page, Complete With Utterly Cool Animated Pikathulhu]
* [http://www.teamrocketgym.com/pokethulhu/ Pokéthulhu Tools. Haven't tried these yet]
* [http://www.philipjreed.com/pokethulhu.html Phil Reed's Pokéthulhu Stuff]
* [http://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?t=287998 An RPGnet thread discussing Pokéthulhu]
* [http://www.teuton.org/~stranger/GAMES/pokethulhu/index.html The Fragments of G'David]
* [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pok%C3%A9thulhu Pokéthulhu Wikipedia article]

==RESOURCES==
* [[wikipedia:Wiki|Wiki One-on-One!]]
* [[wikipedia:Wiki|Wiki-up at Wikipedia!]]
* [[wikipedia:Role-playing_game|RPG defined by Wiki!]]
* [[wikipedia:Gamemaster|Game Master defined by Wiki!]]
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ALL Characters, Settings and Company Copywrites and Trademarks mentioned on these wiki pages are the property of their respective creators. Their mention on this page is NOT intended as a challenge to existing copyrights. They are used here expressly for fan enjoyment. '''Pokéthulhu Adventure Game''' is published by [[wikipedia:Cumberland Games and Diversions|Cumberland Games and Diversions]].

This Pokéthulhu Adventure Game RPG Wiki was originally developed by Kevin Perrine.