RPGnet - User contributions [en]

TROSHammerSession1

2006-09-18T14:28:23Z

Jman5000: /* Fiction events */

=Session 1: the Troubles Begin=

Back to [[TROS in the Hammer]]
[[Category:The_Riddle_of_Steel]]

==Important points==
* Vic was the one who decided that Night Hawk would be...violated...by someone in order to explain why he stole the falcon amulet. Hans would never have forced that kind of thing on him.
* Hans decided to make all the crucial backstory events people had been talking about (Thunder coming home, Peregrine's conversion experience, Vic's stealing the amulet) and make them actually happen in play instead of just writing about them. It seemed to work quite well.

==Fiction events==
* When we first meet Peregrine, he is working for Dots the I's, a middle-aged Aunt of Ghost of Cougar tribe and a quisling for the Gezag.
* When we first meet Thunder's Rumble, he has just returned, after a long absence, to the territory of the People, after escaping from the Soldaaten he was assigned to far to the North and East.
* When we first meet Night Hawk, he has just finished up a job as a Right Hand, and is feeling good.
* The action took place, at first, at Little Rock Way Station; a tavern/inn type thing primarily carved out of a huge limestone boulder, on the road from Baker's Home to Sun Over Water. Yes, the first session of this fantasy game took place in a tavern; sue me for unoriginality.
* Thunder's Rumble arrived first, and was relaxing, as best an escaped slave soldier can, in one corner of the common room.
* Dots the I's arrived next, with her gorgeous Paris Hilton-esque daughter Status Quo and her alcoholic brother No Nonsense. Peregrine was in tow, and swooped around the common room in falcon form for a while.
* Two members of Grinning Blue Moon tribe showed up; a young woman named Winter of Our Discontent, and a young man, her brother, named Frankly my Dear. They immediately noticed Thunder's Rumble, and started to talk his ear off, annoying him to no end, and prying for his story.
* Night Hawk arrived last, looking for a woman to shack up with to avoid paying for his own bed that night.
* Night Hawk and Thunder's Rumble got into a conversation, as fellow tribesmen; Thunder was frankly dissappointed at Night Hawk's frank womanizing ways.
--[[User:Jman5000|Jman5000]] 07:28, 18 September 2006 (PDT)
: Thunder's Rumble - thinking to himself, was astounded at how decident the tribes have become in the years that he's been away. Knowing full well about the fertility issues with the People, Thunder was raised with a very strict understanding and ritualized method for 'fixing' these issues. Blatent womanizing... well... that's just wrong!!! :)
* Status Quo came over and began to try to chat up the two Fog Among the Trees tribesmen. Thunder was disgusted, due to the long feud between Ghost of Cougar and Fog Among the Trees, but Night Hawk was frankly helpless (due to his Lecherousness flaw) against the obvious charms of Status Quo, and wandered off with her.
* While all this has been going on, Peregrine has been flying around outside. He is drawn higher and higher, and has a meeting with Sun Feather, a God of Birds, a massive flaming eagle, being ridden by what seemed like an insane old crone of some sort. Sun Feather restored the conditioning the Gezag had performed on Peregrine, making him realize he had been acting contrary to his own nature for a long time. He swore to destroy the Gezag, to which the crone cryptically responded "See, I told you so, Sun Feather!" Sun Feather told Peregrine he could prevent Kestrel, Peregrines twin, from realizing something had happened for a short time, but soon Kestrel would know Peregrine had changed, and come looking for him. The crone's last words to Peregrine were "if you are ever in Overlook, come see me!"
* When Peregrine returned to Little Rock, Dots the I's ordered him to force Night Hawk to...well, to maintain the PG-13 rating, lets skip ahead a bit.
* Night Hawk wanders upstairs with Status Quo, to Thunder's disgust. Dots the I's heads up a bit later, with her brother. Night Hawk is again beset by the Grinning Blue Moons. However, shortly an elderly entertainer named These Three Guys from the Grinning Blue Moon's hated foes, the Did You Hear the One About tribe started to try to entertain the common room. Thunder then spent an enjoyable few hours getting drunk and listening to the two young Moon's ingeniously heckle the old jokester until he was nearly catatonic with rage.
* Night Hawk awaknens in the early morning hours, around 3 AM. The events of the past few hours rewind, and he realizes he has been completely violated; somehow that Ghost and her daughter have controlled his mind. One thing he does know is that the amulet sitting on the desk in the shape of a falcon is her prized possession, and he is stealing it right now.
* Night Hawk sneaks out of Dots the I's chamber, there is a guard posted in the hall. He overhears Dots the I's speaking with Warm Wool Blanket, the Aunt who runs Little Rock, and realizes that Warm Wool Blanket is informing, through Dots the I's, on all the local resistance to the Gezag!
* Night Hawk slips into No Nonsense's room, and steals the comatose drunk's clothing. He then boldly steps out into the hall in disguise, to bluff his way past the guard. The guard is taken in, but tries to follow Night Hawk out of the inn. Thunder notices Night Hawk, but in his own tipsyness doesn't realize that Night Hawk is in disguise. He calls out Night Hawk's name and asks him what he is doing. The guard is briefly distracted, and Night Hawk gives him a brutal kick to the family jewels, knocking him out of commission.
* Night Hawk runs to retrieve his spear and bow, now that his disguise is ruined. He kicks the door into a 2nd guard, and runs out. Thunder's Rumble is able to delay the guards with his commanding presence, and he too runs for it. Peregrine follows, linked to the amulet Night Hawk has stolen.
* The two Fogs run into the forest and flee the area. Night Hawk explains what has happened, but Thunder is not convinced; he thinks Hawk is probably just a thief and a womanizer who can't control himself. Hawk puts on the amulet, and realizes he can now sense the location of the falcon. They realize that the falcon amulet is much more than a valuble keepsake, and people will probably be hunting for it. They continue moving quickly.
* Peregrine reveals himself to them the next day in his humanish form. He explains that he was a servant to Dots the I's, but is glad to have escaped her. He begins to be a scout for the two Fog's. He also confirms most of Hawk's story to Thunder.
* Peregrine soon realizes that a company of Wespvlaggen (Wasp Banners) are hunting them. These light cavalry archer/scouts ride huge Greyhound like dogs, and while they haven't caught the Fogs trail, they are gaining rapidly.
* Thunder and Hawk set an ambush for two of the Wespvlaggen. They draw two of them into a ravine, and quickly dispatch them with arrow and warhammer. Thunder interrogates the survivor. The survivor indicates that the Poemavlaggen (the Gezag secret police) are very interested in the amulet, and want it recovered immediately. They also know that it was stolen by Fog Among the Trees tribesmen. Thunder dispatches the captive, and Thunder and Hawk realize their entire tribe may now be in danger. They race to the Spring Encampment of their tribe.

Back to [[TROS in the Hammer]]

Talk:TROS in the Hammer:Characters ThundersRumble

2006-09-08T19:56:19Z

Jman5000:

Finished first version...future major changes should be accompanied by notes here. [[User:Skalchemist|Skalchemist]] 19:33, 21 August 2006 (PDT)

: Ok, time to start adding some more details about "Thunder Rumble" (I will have a suitable Amrindian sounding name for him as well once game starts).

Background. Thunder Rumble was born the youngest of 4 siblings. there were 2 other brothers and a sister, in which only 1 brother remains alive. During child birth, his mother died, and the cries of anguish from his father were drowned out due to the tempest storm overhead - hence the name. As the youngest, Thunder was oft neglected and forced to fend for himself while the others worked the land or tended choirs. the expectation was that Thunder would eventually join his family as a farmer and herdsman. Temperament wise, thunder was a jovial kid though with darker tendencies. His peers seemed to naturally gravitate to him and he always seemed to be in the middle of any scheme afoot in the village. a few years before his name day, Thunders father remarried and now also has several half-brothers and sisters from his "near mother".

:: Hans, I need your ok on this part - it would be pretty cool IMO if the shaman for example was the wife of my father (or some kind of close relation) and that my secret love of the daughter has the added angle of being a 'bit' genetically close - not only is the love hidden, but there is also a bit of a social taboo in this

: Two years past his name day, while idling about the village the press gang for the Empire arrived. Being a strong and burly boy, Thunder was quickly grabbed and though he struggled mightily, was subdued and bound in chains to be sent to the large training forts to the west.

The promise of the Empire is explicit - you serve 20 years in the armed services and you get released with honours, you receive a plot of land to call your own, and you become a full citizen. The unspoken promise was also explicit, the people were always used as the shock troops for every war, skirmish or battle ever fought. Few, very few people ever made it to 20 years service, the Empire made sure of that. turns out that the people are not loyal or docile and having all the strong males sent elsewhere and hopefully die, only serves to keep the peace better than any number of battalions stations in the peoples land.

Through years of hard training, hard fighting and hard living, the captains and generals of the Empires armies began to see leadership qualities in Thunder. Firstly he survived where most others didn't. He seemed to show genuine care for the men in his unit and on several occasions risked his body to save another, or do drag a wounded comrade to safety. But most importantly, the couple of times when his squad leader fell in combat, Thunder would continue the attack and succeed. Proposing that Thunder be raised to the officer ranks, he had to demonstrate loyalty towards the empire, had to give an extra 5 years of service, and was required to follow any order he was given by his superiors. Knowing that life as an officer meant more privileges, but more importantly gave him the opportunity to save more of his people when other officers just saw them as meat to throw at the grinder, Thunder grabbed the opportunity, made the necessary oaths and agreed to a five year extension.

rising quickly from squad leader, to platoon leader to company leader, rumours abounded that he was being groomed to become a possible district commander - possibly even the land where the people lived (though he never realized this promise would never be fulfilled, it just doesn't make business sense for a local commander to command a district. too much room for rebellion with that setup). all the soldiers serving under him loved him not because he was an easy commander, but because he was a fair commander, and was a superior tactician. You simply had a better chance to live when commanded by Thunder than with any other commander.

The Proverbial straw that broke the camels back came during the campaign to suppress the northern rebellion. Leading 500 men, Thunder was ordered to take a heavily fortified town at all cost, and then execute all women and children as retribution for an ambush on a pilgrim caravan that happened a fortnight earlier. rumours abounded that the ambush was staged, that neither pilgrim nor rebels were involved and that this was just a pretext to commit genocide on a national level. Tactically assessing the fortified town, Thunder also realized that 500 men, while theoretically sufficient to take the town, the cost to his own men was too high, estimated at 90% losses. Seeing that his men empathized with these rebels, knowing that this "ambush" was just a pretext for legal genocide and disgusted in his leaderships lack of regard for his men’s welfare, Thunder decided at that point to desert en-mass with his men, lead them back to the land to be free. Knowing that he would put everyone in jeopardy with this plan, he asked his men if this was what they wanted. With a rousing cry, it was settled - free at last, but outlaw, deserter, and wanted.

Quietly returning to his village, Thunder discovered that much had changed during his years away.
[Edit: removed much excess verbage which can be better role played] The scope of these changes Thunder is only just starting to realize.

Recently, Thunder has quietly began thinking and plotting about the day when the Empire was no longer ruling over the people. His plans are not yet formulated, but he does know that the people can care for themselves much better than the empire can, that to break the yoke, a firm hand will be needed - but firstly, the people must know they are in the hands of a true leader, one who is looking after only their best wishes and is not secretly a dog of the empire - self serving their own interests in wealth over the suffrage of the people. Thunder took the ancient 'peoples oath' to demonstrate his intentions, and has only just begun traveling throughout his tribes lands, speaking to the villagers and farmers and letting the people know that there is someone who is starting to do something...

He is currently traveling, between farms, away from the village...
--[[User:Jman5000|Jman5000]] 08:11, 25 August 2006 (PDT)

:Awesome, awesome stuff! a few comments...

:*Please don't change the name, I like it just the way it is.
:: Not changing the name, just adding his amairindian 'real name' to it --[[User:Jman5000|Jman5000]] 09:59, 25 August 2006 (PDT)
*The press gang's offer should be phrased more like this: Either you become an employee soldier for us, or we send you to the slave pits as property. Serve us willingly and we pay you or serve us unwillingly and we won't, but either way you WILL serve us. The standard "employment contract" would be 20 years, but it would be renewable at the discretion of the Authority. Membership in the Authority (the equivalent of citzenship) I'm thinking should not be explicitly on the table, but COULD be possible, more of a carrot for good service; maybe the Chairman-Dictator can hand out a small number of memberships each year. The Authority probably does this to all the surrounding groups, forming "Employee Regiments" from all over the place, and probably mixes them up; Thunder would have served with fellow soldiers from a number of different cultures, not just the People. In fact, the only caveat on Employee Regiments is that they NEVER serve in their own home lands; they only serve elsewhere. This also allows the Authority to fight a rebellion in one place with the possible rebels from another place, and commit few of their own people to the actual fight. This is like the British using troops from India to fight in the Boxer Rebellion in China.
*I'm thinking the desertion en-masse is a bit much, given the mixture of cultures. The Authority does not encourage sympathy among its employee regiments. But more importantly, what happened to the other soldiers? I suggest the following alternative; faced with the possible destruction of his entire unit in the process of genocide, Thunder led a mutiny against the senior officers, with the intent of leading the men into the wilderness to the North of the Authority (perhaps eventually returning to his own lands). The mutiny was successful, briefly, but then the Authority moved in several Banner regiments, who crushed the mutiny (the Authority carefully makes sure its member troops are better equipped than the employees), and Thunder barely escaped with his own life.
:: I was sort of playing on the idea that I was commanded to lead a contingent of people from my land. my leadership meant that there were fewer problems with them following orders, and killing captains etc.. I didn't think that Thunder was leading a ragtag band of multi-ethnic soldiers but more like a unified group from the same region. Makes business sense - we know each others customs, can work together, and be more efficient that way, no communication issues etc... Don't mind if it's different, I'll just change things and have him desert/stage a rebellion against his commanding officers with most of his troup getting wiped out as a result. --[[User:Jman5000|Jman5000]] 09:59, 25 August 2006 (PDT)
:::Makes sense that there would be at least SOME of the People in your unit. I want to keep the multi-ethnic feel to the employee troops, but if you want to have led JUST the People in a mutiny, thats fine by me and makes sense. Some others from other cultures could have come along for the ride, based on their trust in your leadership.[[User:Skalchemist|Skalchemist]] 10:17, 25 August 2006 (PDT)
*An interesting modification; you have the brand of an employee soldier, but not the brand of a PENSIONED or DISCHARGED employee soldier. Therefore, if you are ever captured and someone from the Authority gets a good look at your (name a body part), it will be obvious you are a deserter. You COULD forge the discharge brand, I suppose but I'm going to make you play that out and not let it be in the back story. :)
:::I was thinking about that myself, given that forgery is one of Peregrines best skills.:)[[User:Silentdaikyu|Silentdaikyu]] 20:52, 28 August 2006 (PDT)
:: I really like this, because branding connotates ownership, thus you think you are free, but they still own you, because they can brand you... neat! I say the brands should be around ones neck, as a sort of flesh necklace. each quadrant of ones neck has a signifigance, and it's outlawed to conceal one's branding --[[User:Jman5000|Jman5000]] 09:59, 25 August 2006 (PDT)
:::Done, exactly as you say it.[[User:Skalchemist|Skalchemist]] 10:17, 25 August 2006 (PDT)
*I'd like to put as much of the last two paragraphs as possible into the game instead of backstory. In other words, instead of saying "Thunder discovered much had changed", I think it would be fun to PLAY OUT Thunder discovering just how much has changed. Backstory isn't as much fun as play. Does that make sense?[[User:Skalchemist|Skalchemist]] 09:27, 25 August 2006 (PDT)

:: makes sense. I've modified the last couple of paragraphs slightly... more edits to come to incorporate the more corporate feel of the empire, and to slightly change the desertion. --[[User:Jman5000|Jman5000]] 09:59, 25 August 2006 (PDT)
----
Jman5000 - Once you have the backstory right, copy and paste it to the main page. Probably not in the little box, not enough space; make a new section at the top or bottom.[[User:Skalchemist|Skalchemist]] 10:20, 25 August 2006 (PDT)
----
Some questions, based on the recent changes to the People I have posted.
* What kind of tribe is Thunder's Rumble from? What was their niche? What is its name? Is he the same tribe Vic's character is from (one assumes a woodsman/hunter tribe)?
* What is the love interests name? Is she from your tribe? From what you said above, I'm guessing you want there to be at least a hint of illicitness about the love you feel for her; making her a member of your own tribe would do it, as would making her a member of a tribe that is not a "husband" to yours.
* Your ally, I'm guessing, is one of the matriarchs of your own tribe. Or is she?
* Something just occurred to me...maybe you are functionally tribeless, as your entire tribe was carted off into slavery. I'm going to add a bit about this new phenomenon on the wiki; prior to the Gezag almost everyone was a member of SOME tribe, but with the disruption that is currently occurring, it could be that some smaller tribes have essentially dissappeared, leaving so few members as to be dysfunctional.
Think about these things. [[User:Skalchemist|Skalchemist]] 11:49, 8 September 2006 (PDT)

: Thunder Rumber should be from the same tribe that Vic's character is from, but he might not know him at all - maybe he last saw him as a little child, or maybe he wasn't even born yet when the Gezag carted me off to fight in foreign wars... But I do want to be from the same tribe
: The love interests name.. hmm, how about 'Dawns first light' as that was what glimmered through the tent during 'Dawns' birth... she is also from my tribe. I think your idea of her being the daughter of the shaman is a great idea. I'm thinking the love is either partially illicit (lower caste than Dawn thus the love being frowned upon, or I'm too old and gnarly and weathered to be of any physical interest, or the relationship between my father and her mother makes it too close (though we are not blood related). I do not expect the love to ever be reciprocated - my love for her is an allusion for the love I hold for the tribe. I'll do anything for her, and don't ever expect anything in return. it might be cool if she knows my feelings (those wiley women) and plays me like an instrament.

: my minor ally is the tribe shaman (a woman) and mother to Dawns first light. she has aided me in the past when fleeing the Gezag and hiding from its representatives, and somewhat guides me in my destiny to unite the tribes and break free...

: Hope this helps --[[User:Jman5000|Jman5000]] 12:56, 8 September 2006 (PDT)

Talk:TROS in the Hammer:Setting Political

2006-08-25T20:23:08Z

Jman5000:

Please post any comments you might have here. [[User:Skalchemist|Skalchemist]] 08:02, 23 August 2006 (PDT)
----
Justin had a bunch of questions - here are the answers.
1) loyalty towards the tribe --[[User:Jman5000|Jman5000]] 13:48, 23 August 2006 (PDT)spirit? With 'living and breathing' spirits communicating to the tribes, I'm guessing some kind of loyalty will be required both towards our 'protectors and guides' of an equal level as towards the shaman and circle of leaders... When confronted with another spirit - Say Pete's Character - would there not be superstitious hostility towards it? Game wise, are we all ok with some level of interpersonal conflict that may arise from this situation? (I am ok with it... It's only a game after all, pretty sure you are, you narritivist freak! But is pete/vic ok with that?)

: Each tribe has a tribe spirit? Thats fine with me, sort of a main totem/god for that tribe. Cool. Pete's character is NOT one of these, though; he is a personal servant type spirit. Chances are any one of the People would recognize Pete for what he is (unless he is disguised somehow). It would be wise to be suspicious of ANY spirit you do not know or who has not been contacted/anchored by a shaman you trust. I would say if there is NOT some interpersonal conflict on this issue, we aren't having fun. [[User:Skalchemist|Skalchemist]] 10:42, 23 August 2006 (PDT)

::Sorry, I had just assumed that all tribes would have their own totem, with their own spirit attached to each. Hence the huge affront caused when Vic stole the totem that housed Pete's Spirit. I suppose we don't have to play it with every tribe/clan having it's own protector spirit. It really doesn't matter all that much to me. --[[User:Jman5000|Jman5000]] 11:30, 23 August 2006 (PDT)

:::No sorry, I think it is a cool idea...lets use it, at least among the people. If and when the other tribe realizes Pete has been stolen, they will be pissed off, but not as in "They stole our god!" and more like "They stole one of our cool things!"[[User:Skalchemist|Skalchemist]] 12:30, 23 August 2006 (PDT)

2) can we talk to our spirit guides, can we get our own spirit guides, will there be any real world tangible impact should a spirit guide get banished? Does the Tribe become unlucky for example?

: If each tribe has its own totem/god spirit, then destroying the anchors to that powerful spirit would certainly deal a major blow to that spirit. I don't have the rules written yet for how a shaman deals with spirits, but any spirit powerful enough to serve as a totem/god is pretty darn hard to contact, and losing the ancestral anchors would be a big deal. As to game mechanical effects of a totem/god spirit for the tribe; probably macro things, like assistance with crops/hunting, assitance in battle, etc. Individual level game mechanical effects would be rare. As to getting your own spirit, well, Vic's character has one, so we know at least one method; theft. :) [[User:Skalchemist|Skalchemist]] 10:42, 23 August 2006 (PDT)
: As to talking with spirits...you can talk to any anchored, or embodied spirit that can speak a human language (generally any spirit that has at least three qualities might be communicative). In the case of embodied spirits, you just talk to their body, no matter how strange it may be. In the case of anchored spirits, you talk to them through their anchors; the exact method will vary depending on the form of the anchor. In the case of contacted spirits, only a shaman can speak with them. Notional spirits are, well, notional, and can't be communicated with at all. I'll add this stuff to the actual page. [[User:Skalchemist|Skalchemist]] 10:46, 23 August 2006 (PDT)

3) there's a 4th option for the destiny of the people. Much like how the Mongols managed to insert themselves into Chinese culture and basically start a dynasty, the same 'could' happen with the people. Take over Empire 1, supplant the existing leadership with leadership from the people etc. etc... :)

: Sounds good to me. [[User:Skalchemist|Skalchemist]] 10:42, 23 August 2006 (PDT)

4) if the land is rich in minerals, wouldn't empire 1 just have 'assimilated' us, taken over the land for themselves, and pushed the people onto reservations for example...

: Empire 1 finds it much easier to make one tribe responsible (and paying them with favours and other stuff) for getting the metal delivered on time, stationing a few regiments of troops near the mines, and just generally telling the People "as long as the iron keeps flowing, we'll leave you alone, but miss one shipment and will slaughter a village or two". Empire 1 is not an empire of colonists; they have no desire to live outside their own lands. They just want other peoples stuff to pad their own nests, and will take whatever steps are necessary to keep the stuff flowing. [[User:Skalchemist|Skalchemist]] 10:42, 23 August 2006 (PDT)

5) will there be monsters?

: If by monsters you mean things like beholders, ogres, etc., then probably not. If by monsters you mean animals that are very different from current Earth animals, I would say probably. If you mean by monsters strange spirit creatures (like Pete's character) under the control of humans, then almost certainly. [[User:Skalchemist|Skalchemist]] 10:42, 23 August 2006 (PDT)

::With monsters, I wasn't thinking D&D traditional monsters - more, evil spirits, evil shamans and their summonings, possibly 'warped' animals from whatever calamity happened. Thinking more one off horror type creatures than traditional monsters with ecology etc. --[[User:Jman5000|Jman5000]] 11:30, 23 August 2006 (PDT)

:::Those kinds of monsters...oh yeah baby. You better believe it. [[User:Skalchemist|Skalchemist]] 12:30, 23 August 2006 (PDT)

::::groovy, ok then, we've got a mix of Cthulu vs. Sword and Sorcery... I like it!!! [grin]. Honestly though, as much as Fantasy feel, I think I'd prefer for a more humanistic kind of game. The fantastic should be VERY Fantastic, WTF??? kind of moments. Nothing IMO saps tension away when your meta knowledge tells you exactly what you are facing... --[[User:Jman5000|Jman5000]] 13:40, 23 August 2006 (PDT)

:::::Agreed, I will try to make the fantastic, fantastic. It may be slight more common then you were thinking, but it won't distract from the humanistic nature of the game; the game will still be about people and what they do.[[User:Skalchemist|Skalchemist]] 14:01, 23 August 2006 (PDT)

----
new question - and this is something which I am thinking about based on another game that I am playing, in that the story is very much driven by a few certain characters - what happens when those characters are no longer part of the game (dead, left the game etc...)??? for the other game, a bunch of "real world" people are swept into another land, facing fantastic situations. the story, the plot, the drives are all very strongly tied to these few people swept into this land.. In my opinion, once all these original characters are gone - the story must end, because there is no longer an incentive or reason to continue looking for a way home (if that was the meta plot). Anyway, a long way of asking.... In Tros or other strongly narritivistic games and trying to create a campaign... what happens when the protagonists die or leave? How can continuinity continue if a major plot line all of a sudden stops? Uniting the tribes may be my goal, and may be a really cool story line to work on and to role play against, but as soon as my character dies, I'm not sure if that would continue being interesting... anyway, just musing outloud here... --[[User:Jman5000|Jman5000]] 13:48, 23 August 2006 (PDT)

:Good question. My feeling is that if one or more of the main protagonists (i.e. the characters we start with) dies, then the story will either change or end. No way around it. I won't try to push it one way or the other. Its one reason why I'm frankly glad we DIDN'T go with the 'stranger in a strange land' thing; TROS is too fatal, conceivably, and the concept needs a rules set that keeps the protagonists alive (regardless of what other horrible stuff might happen to them). That being said, death is not a guaranteed thing in this game; if faced with very deadly opposition (i.e. you are outnumbered in almost any fashion, people have the drop on you with missle weapons, etc.), you can always run away, surrender, or try to talk your way out. Remember this is NOT a cinematic/heroic game, where the characters are absurdly resilient and insanely foolhardy. Those are not survival traits in TROS. Surrender, run away, or talk; don't forget those words. I promise you that if you surrender, the game will not get boring; in fact I promise oodles of interesting (albeit terrifying) stuff will happen if you surrender. MWAHAHAHAHAAHA!!! [[User:Skalchemist|Skalchemist]] 14:01, 23 August 2006 (PDT)

:: may I make a suggestion? It's a little bit railroady, but might work for our campaign. At least for the first little while, if any character dies, can we create new characters at least from the same tribe/region? This should *help* in keeping the story going while still giving you total options on what your characteristics are... once we get a feel for the ebb and flow of a TRoS game, we can then expand the characters more and bring in different people from different regions. Anyway, just a though to possibly make things in the beginnins easier --[[User:Jman5000|Jman5000]] 08:13, 24 August 2006 (PDT)

:::I will accept your suggestion and modify slighty...new characters MUST FIT INTO THE CURRENT STORY and its current direction somehow. Same tribe/region may not be necessary for that criteria to be met.[[User:Skalchemist|Skalchemist]] 08:36, 24 August 2006 (PDT)

:::: works for me.--[[User:Jman5000|Jman5000]] 09:07, 24 August 2006 (PDT)

----
this thread has to do with equipment and relative technology levels. you mentioned that there is a reinnance feel to the Empire, but will that also translate to equipment and weapons? Are we hunter gathers, spears, bows, single edged swords, or more sophisticated, with barding for horses etc?

Economically, do the People trade with currency, or barter?

Geopolitically, are the people free to move about the empire, or are they classed as 'non citizins' (like the early Gauls in the Roman Empire, or the Egyptians etc...)?

p.s. I'm liking this wiki... nice way to flow things together...

--[[User:Jman5000|Jman5000]] 09:07, 24 August 2006 (PDT)

: I'm adding a pile of stuff to the description of Empire 1 (now called the Niarch Trade Authority). Here are the simple answers - a) the Trade Authority has an early rennaissance level of technology. The People have an early to middle Medieval level of technology on their own (think Vikings), although better equipment can be had, particularly by theft from representatives of the Trade Authority. Some tribes of the People (not yours) are known particularly for their fine metal work, and jewelry is a common tribute item to the Authority. As to barding for horses...who said people ride horses? :) Right now, I'm leaning towards people riding various kinds of ultra large mutated dogs, or maybe pigs, or maybe large flightless birds like ostriches, or maybe all of the above! Either way, the People are not know particularly for their riding abilities; once I start talking about geography, you will see that the area the people live in is much easier to get around in by foot or by water. Economically, the People use a combination of barter and gold/silver "coinage" (which actually takes the form of various sizes and weights of beads of precious metal that can be knotted or strung together in lieu of a purse.) But in general all of the People are fairly poor; the tribute the Authority exacts prevents a lot of economic development. As to "citizenship", membership is the equivalent in the Authority, and members do have a lot of rights and priviledges. The Authority does not particularly restrict movement by the People at this time, although during periods of unrest they may require various passes etc. to move freely. Employees of the Company have more priviledges than non-Employees, and Property (i.e. slaves) have the least priviledges of all.[[User:Skalchemist|Skalchemist]] 11:29, 24 August 2006 (PDT)
-------------------------------------------------------
I assume there is a language for The People, a language for The Trade Authority and a language for The Legion. Which of these languages would we have access to? Are there others that we should be aware of?
[[User:Silentdaikyu|Silentdaikyu]] 21:13, 24 August 2006 (PDT)

:Good question. I've added sections on languages. As to what your characters should have: Night Hawk speaks Speech natively, and should also take Men's Hunting Code as an extra language (leaving one extra MA point for either a new skill, another language, or a -1 to an exisiting skill). Thunder's Rumble speaks Speech natively, and should also take Men's Hunting Code and Trade Niarchic (leaving no other MA points, sorry). Peregrine should speak Speech, Trade Niarchic, and Old Niarchic (I think); I need to send Pete a pseudo secrect email on a few things to be sure. [[User:Skalchemist|Skalchemist]] 06:59, 25 August 2006 (PDT)

----
For this section, I'd like to talk about brandings :) this has really fired my imagination. (and sorry, but I can't help but put on my GM's hat here... I'll reign in, I promise ;) )

:Don't you dare reign in...keep coming up with stuff! The worst that can happen is I simply tell you no, which is really my only power as a GM. Go for it! [[User:Skalchemist|Skalchemist]] 12:37, 25 August 2006 (PDT)

In the discussion on the background of my character (Thunder's Rumble) it was agreed that the empire/corporation owns everthing within its borders, including the people, and they demonstrate it's ownership through branding. Brands are to be set around ones neck and it's forbidden to conceal one's neck in such a way as to hide ones brand.

it would be cool if this actually represents a couple of different things
1) branding: there could potentially be 4 brands, a birth mark, a naming/age of majority mark, a service mark (showing which department you work for etc.) and a "retirement" brand (in the front of your neck, right under your jaw). the first 3 brands could just be simple brands, but the 4th might utilize tattooing, embedding precious metals or something else. the 4th brand could also have a couple of different marks - meritous service, discharge without honours, citizen etc. etc. etc.
2) who gets branded? everyone but the ruling elite? everyone? if you don't have a brand you are either outlaw, foreiner or elite
3) who does the branding? village elders for the first 2, your commander for the 3rd, and [xxx] for your final discharge?
4) since there is a very corporate feel here, it would make sense that the branding was in some way a serialization of each individual - too me this is quite cool, as it also brings into mind the corporate efficiency of the Nazi regime when branding what it considered undesirables. perhaps there is a ministry of information? and a hall of records? perhaps the percision of this empire is founded on its information management, perhaps there is a tabulation machine from waaaaaaaay back that is humming away and creates a huge technological advantage between its national peers..... this is a way cool exploration IMO.
5) as you can tell, I think this concept is way cool... sorry to hijack what is clearly in the GM's realm... by not having a brand, Thunder will have mucho issues whenever there is a representiative from the empire, which has really cool roleplaying dynamics - but also cool dynamics when dealing with people from the land.

--[[User:Jman5000|Jman5000]] 10:46, 25 August 2006 (PDT)
:One slight correction...the Gezag (Authority) does not own EVERYTHING in the land of the People. It owns those things it HAS CHOSEN TO CLAIM. The Gezag does not recognize ownership by anyone other than a Lid (Member) or association of Liden of the Gezag, but there are a number of reasons why they choose to leave some, even most, of the People's land and resources unclaimed. The biggest is that practical experience has taught them that is far simpler to set the quotas for the tribute and scare the hell out of them to make them meet it, but let them figure out how to do it themselves. Saves a lot of wear and tear on the weapons of your soldiers. The Gezag finds the THREAT of claiming things far more useful than the ACTUAL claiming, in many circumstances.
:I love the whole branding thing. Here are some answers...
:Who gets branded? Anyone who is officially inducted into the Gezag (the new name of the Authority) in some way; members, employees and slaves. Among the People, this would be... a) Soldaaten (employee soldiers); only those with a pension/discharge brand SHOULD be found in the land however; the Gezag is very conscientious about making sure that well-trained Soldaaten serve in lands other than their own. b) official employees (arbeiders) of the Gezag; various quislings, traitors, etc. who have positions of authority and draw paychecks from the Gezag to supervise mines, slave labour camps, etc. c) slaves (bezit), currently chained, escaped or otherwise. Others of the People would not be branded, as they are essentially beneath the notice of the Gezag as long as tribute flows.
:What do the brands consist of? I suggest the following alteration to your branding code: Brand 1 - Serial Number. They have specially designed brands that work like a printing press for this. The numbers are recorded in larger ledgers that eventually get sent to processing centers where...well, if we ever get there, we'll figure out exactly what happens and how efficient the information processing is. But I really like the fascist overtones the whole serial number thing brings in. Brand 2 - Status. These are designed in such a way that it is possible to downgrade (i.e. go from Arbeider to Bezit) but not go back up (example, a circle is a member, a circle with one slash a worker, a circle with two slashes a slave). Once a slave, always a slave. Brand 3 - the Company that holds the contract/possession. Lid (Members) will not have this brand, as they are they are considered to own/employee themselves. Most of the People who are branded would have the brand of the COV (Cirkelmeer Ontwikkelling Venootschap), since that is the company that governs the area of the People. Brand area 4 - Specific duty/assignment, these brands would be smaller, leaving room for changes. An experienced Gezag administrator can read these brands
like a biography. Again Lid (members) will not have any of these brands; they are considered to be self-assigning.
: Social effects of branding/not branding? Among the Gezag, a brand is considered vital; without one, you are literally unclaimed property with absolutely no status/rights in society. However, the Gezag are not stupid; they recognize that there needs to be at least some native culture allowed or there will be constant discord, which is bad for the bottom line. So they are willing to leave a large proportion of the population of their controlled areas unbranded and independent as a kind of morale booster and simultaneous threat; everyone knows that it only takes only one wrong move to be marked for life as a cog in the Gezag machine. Among the People, it probably depends on the particular tribe/clan and circumstances as to how the brands are viewed. Some will be proud of their branded status if they are arbeiders (paid workers), especially if they occupy positions of authority in the COV. Some will find the brands disgusting; a visible sign of selling out to the enemy. [[User:Skalchemist|Skalchemist]] 12:29, 25 August 2006 (PDT)

::: I love it!!!. Just imagine, your sister coming home, branded an official prostitute, because that is what the company chose for her, and having to live with THAT stigma in your village for the rest of your life... Those bastards! makes me want to hunt them down already. you are making me not like this empire very much :) --[[User:Jman5000|Jman5000]] 13:23, 25 August 2006 (PDT)

Talk:TROS in the Hammer:Setting Political

2006-08-25T17:46:34Z

Jman5000:

Please post any comments you might have here. [[User:Skalchemist|Skalchemist]] 08:02, 23 August 2006 (PDT)
----
Justin had a bunch of questions - here are the answers.
1) loyalty towards the tribe --[[User:Jman5000|Jman5000]] 13:48, 23 August 2006 (PDT)spirit? With 'living and breathing' spirits communicating to the tribes, I'm guessing some kind of loyalty will be required both towards our 'protectors and guides' of an equal level as towards the shaman and circle of leaders... When confronted with another spirit - Say Pete's Character - would there not be superstitious hostility towards it? Game wise, are we all ok with some level of interpersonal conflict that may arise from this situation? (I am ok with it... It's only a game after all, pretty sure you are, you narritivist freak! But is pete/vic ok with that?)

: Each tribe has a tribe spirit? Thats fine with me, sort of a main totem/god for that tribe. Cool. Pete's character is NOT one of these, though; he is a personal servant type spirit. Chances are any one of the People would recognize Pete for what he is (unless he is disguised somehow). It would be wise to be suspicious of ANY spirit you do not know or who has not been contacted/anchored by a shaman you trust. I would say if there is NOT some interpersonal conflict on this issue, we aren't having fun. [[User:Skalchemist|Skalchemist]] 10:42, 23 August 2006 (PDT)

::Sorry, I had just assumed that all tribes would have their own totem, with their own spirit attached to each. Hence the huge affront caused when Vic stole the totem that housed Pete's Spirit. I suppose we don't have to play it with every tribe/clan having it's own protector spirit. It really doesn't matter all that much to me. --[[User:Jman5000|Jman5000]] 11:30, 23 August 2006 (PDT)

:::No sorry, I think it is a cool idea...lets use it, at least among the people. If and when the other tribe realizes Pete has been stolen, they will be pissed off, but not as in "They stole our god!" and more like "They stole one of our cool things!"[[User:Skalchemist|Skalchemist]] 12:30, 23 August 2006 (PDT)

2) can we talk to our spirit guides, can we get our own spirit guides, will there be any real world tangible impact should a spirit guide get banished? Does the Tribe become unlucky for example?

: If each tribe has its own totem/god spirit, then destroying the anchors to that powerful spirit would certainly deal a major blow to that spirit. I don't have the rules written yet for how a shaman deals with spirits, but any spirit powerful enough to serve as a totem/god is pretty darn hard to contact, and losing the ancestral anchors would be a big deal. As to game mechanical effects of a totem/god spirit for the tribe; probably macro things, like assistance with crops/hunting, assitance in battle, etc. Individual level game mechanical effects would be rare. As to getting your own spirit, well, Vic's character has one, so we know at least one method; theft. :) [[User:Skalchemist|Skalchemist]] 10:42, 23 August 2006 (PDT)
: As to talking with spirits...you can talk to any anchored, or embodied spirit that can speak a human language (generally any spirit that has at least three qualities might be communicative). In the case of embodied spirits, you just talk to their body, no matter how strange it may be. In the case of anchored spirits, you talk to them through their anchors; the exact method will vary depending on the form of the anchor. In the case of contacted spirits, only a shaman can speak with them. Notional spirits are, well, notional, and can't be communicated with at all. I'll add this stuff to the actual page. [[User:Skalchemist|Skalchemist]] 10:46, 23 August 2006 (PDT)

3) there's a 4th option for the destiny of the people. Much like how the Mongols managed to insert themselves into Chinese culture and basically start a dynasty, the same 'could' happen with the people. Take over Empire 1, supplant the existing leadership with leadership from the people etc. etc... :)

: Sounds good to me. [[User:Skalchemist|Skalchemist]] 10:42, 23 August 2006 (PDT)

4) if the land is rich in minerals, wouldn't empire 1 just have 'assimilated' us, taken over the land for themselves, and pushed the people onto reservations for example...

: Empire 1 finds it much easier to make one tribe responsible (and paying them with favours and other stuff) for getting the metal delivered on time, stationing a few regiments of troops near the mines, and just generally telling the People "as long as the iron keeps flowing, we'll leave you alone, but miss one shipment and will slaughter a village or two". Empire 1 is not an empire of colonists; they have no desire to live outside their own lands. They just want other peoples stuff to pad their own nests, and will take whatever steps are necessary to keep the stuff flowing. [[User:Skalchemist|Skalchemist]] 10:42, 23 August 2006 (PDT)

5) will there be monsters?

: If by monsters you mean things like beholders, ogres, etc., then probably not. If by monsters you mean animals that are very different from current Earth animals, I would say probably. If you mean by monsters strange spirit creatures (like Pete's character) under the control of humans, then almost certainly. [[User:Skalchemist|Skalchemist]] 10:42, 23 August 2006 (PDT)

::With monsters, I wasn't thinking D&D traditional monsters - more, evil spirits, evil shamans and their summonings, possibly 'warped' animals from whatever calamity happened. Thinking more one off horror type creatures than traditional monsters with ecology etc. --[[User:Jman5000|Jman5000]] 11:30, 23 August 2006 (PDT)

:::Those kinds of monsters...oh yeah baby. You better believe it. [[User:Skalchemist|Skalchemist]] 12:30, 23 August 2006 (PDT)

::::groovy, ok then, we've got a mix of Cthulu vs. Sword and Sorcery... I like it!!! [grin]. Honestly though, as much as Fantasy feel, I think I'd prefer for a more humanistic kind of game. The fantastic should be VERY Fantastic, WTF??? kind of moments. Nothing IMO saps tension away when your meta knowledge tells you exactly what you are facing... --[[User:Jman5000|Jman5000]] 13:40, 23 August 2006 (PDT)

:::::Agreed, I will try to make the fantastic, fantastic. It may be slight more common then you were thinking, but it won't distract from the humanistic nature of the game; the game will still be about people and what they do.[[User:Skalchemist|Skalchemist]] 14:01, 23 August 2006 (PDT)

----
new question - and this is something which I am thinking about based on another game that I am playing, in that the story is very much driven by a few certain characters - what happens when those characters are no longer part of the game (dead, left the game etc...)??? for the other game, a bunch of "real world" people are swept into another land, facing fantastic situations. the story, the plot, the drives are all very strongly tied to these few people swept into this land.. In my opinion, once all these original characters are gone - the story must end, because there is no longer an incentive or reason to continue looking for a way home (if that was the meta plot). Anyway, a long way of asking.... In Tros or other strongly narritivistic games and trying to create a campaign... what happens when the protagonists die or leave? How can continuinity continue if a major plot line all of a sudden stops? Uniting the tribes may be my goal, and may be a really cool story line to work on and to role play against, but as soon as my character dies, I'm not sure if that would continue being interesting... anyway, just musing outloud here... --[[User:Jman5000|Jman5000]] 13:48, 23 August 2006 (PDT)

:Good question. My feeling is that if one or more of the main protagonists (i.e. the characters we start with) dies, then the story will either change or end. No way around it. I won't try to push it one way or the other. Its one reason why I'm frankly glad we DIDN'T go with the 'stranger in a strange land' thing; TROS is too fatal, conceivably, and the concept needs a rules set that keeps the protagonists alive (regardless of what other horrible stuff might happen to them). That being said, death is not a guaranteed thing in this game; if faced with very deadly opposition (i.e. you are outnumbered in almost any fashion, people have the drop on you with missle weapons, etc.), you can always run away, surrender, or try to talk your way out. Remember this is NOT a cinematic/heroic game, where the characters are absurdly resilient and insanely foolhardy. Those are not survival traits in TROS. Surrender, run away, or talk; don't forget those words. I promise you that if you surrender, the game will not get boring; in fact I promise oodles of interesting (albeit terrifying) stuff will happen if you surrender. MWAHAHAHAHAAHA!!! [[User:Skalchemist|Skalchemist]] 14:01, 23 August 2006 (PDT)

:: may I make a suggestion? It's a little bit railroady, but might work for our campaign. At least for the first little while, if any character dies, can we create new characters at least from the same tribe/region? This should *help* in keeping the story going while still giving you total options on what your characteristics are... once we get a feel for the ebb and flow of a TRoS game, we can then expand the characters more and bring in different people from different regions. Anyway, just a though to possibly make things in the beginnins easier --[[User:Jman5000|Jman5000]] 08:13, 24 August 2006 (PDT)

:::I will accept your suggestion and modify slighty...new characters MUST FIT INTO THE CURRENT STORY and its current direction somehow. Same tribe/region may not be necessary for that criteria to be met.[[User:Skalchemist|Skalchemist]] 08:36, 24 August 2006 (PDT)

:::: works for me.--[[User:Jman5000|Jman5000]] 09:07, 24 August 2006 (PDT)

----
this thread has to do with equipment and relative technology levels. you mentioned that there is a reinnance feel to the Empire, but will that also translate to equipment and weapons? Are we hunter gathers, spears, bows, single edged swords, or more sophisticated, with barding for horses etc?

Economically, do the People trade with currency, or barter?

Geopolitically, are the people free to move about the empire, or are they classed as 'non citizins' (like the early Gauls in the Roman Empire, or the Egyptians etc...)?

p.s. I'm liking this wiki... nice way to flow things together...

--[[User:Jman5000|Jman5000]] 09:07, 24 August 2006 (PDT)

: I'm adding a pile of stuff to the description of Empire 1 (now called the Niarch Trade Authority). Here are the simple answers - a) the Trade Authority has an early rennaissance level of technology. The People have an early to middle Medieval level of technology on their own (think Vikings), although better equipment can be had, particularly by theft from representatives of the Trade Authority. Some tribes of the People (not yours) are known particularly for their fine metal work, and jewelry is a common tribute item to the Authority. As to barding for horses...who said people ride horses? :) Right now, I'm leaning towards people riding various kinds of ultra large mutated dogs, or maybe pigs, or maybe large flightless birds like ostriches, or maybe all of the above! Either way, the People are not know particularly for their riding abilities; once I start talking about geography, you will see that the area the people live in is much easier to get around in by foot or by water. Economically, the People use a combination of barter and gold/silver "coinage" (which actually takes the form of various sizes and weights of beads of precious metal that can be knotted or strung together in lieu of a purse.) But in general all of the People are fairly poor; the tribute the Authority exacts prevents a lot of economic development. As to "citizenship", membership is the equivalent in the Authority, and members do have a lot of rights and priviledges. The Authority does not particularly restrict movement by the People at this time, although during periods of unrest they may require various passes etc. to move freely. Employees of the Company have more priviledges than non-Employees, and Property (i.e. slaves) have the least priviledges of all.[[User:Skalchemist|Skalchemist]] 11:29, 24 August 2006 (PDT)
-------------------------------------------------------
I assume there is a language for The People, a language for The Trade Authority and a language for The Legion. Which of these languages would we have access to? Are there others that we should be aware of?
[[User:Silentdaikyu|Silentdaikyu]] 21:13, 24 August 2006 (PDT)

:Good question. I've added sections on languages. As to what your characters should have: Night Hawk speaks Speech natively, and should also take Men's Hunting Code as an extra language (leaving one extra MA point for either a new skill, another language, or a -1 to an exisiting skill). Thunder's Rumble speaks Speech natively, and should also take Men's Hunting Code and Trade Niarchic (leaving no other MA points, sorry). Peregrine should speak Speech, Trade Niarchic, and Old Niarchic (I think); I need to send Pete a pseudo secrect email on a few things to be sure. [[User:Skalchemist|Skalchemist]] 06:59, 25 August 2006 (PDT)

----
For this section, I'd like to talk about brandings :) this has really fired my imagination. (and sorry, but I can't help but put on my GM's hat here... I'll reign in, I promise ;) )

In the discussion on the background of my character (Thunder's Rumble) it was agreed that the empire/corporation owns everthing within its borders, including the people, and they demonstrate it's ownership through branding. Brands are to be set around ones neck and it's forbidden to conceal one's neck in such a way as to hide ones brand.

it would be cool if this actually represents a couple of different things
1) branding: there could potentially be 4 brands, a birth mark, a naming/age of majority mark, a service mark (showing which department you work for etc.) and a "retirement" brand (in the front of your neck, right under your jaw). the first 3 brands could just be simple brands, but the 4th might utilize tattooing, embedding precious metals or something else. the 4th brand could also have a couple of different marks - meritous service, discharge without honours, citizen etc. etc. etc.
2) who gets branded? everyone but the ruling elite? everyone? if you don't have a brand you are either outlaw, foreiner or elite
3) who does the branding? village elders for the first 2, your commander for the 3rd, and [xxx] for your final discharge?
4) since there is a very corporate feel here, it would make sense that the branding was in some way a serialization of each individual - too me this is quite cool, as it also brings into mind the corporate efficiency of the Nazi regime when branding what it considered undesirables. perhaps there is a ministry of information? and a hall of records? perhaps the percision of this empire is founded on its information management, perhaps there is a tabulation machine from waaaaaaaay back that is humming away and creates a huge technological advantage between its national peers..... this is a way cool exploration IMO.
5) as you can tell, I think this concept is way cool... sorry to hijack what is clearly in the GM's realm... by not having a brand, Thunder will have mucho issues whenever there is a representiative from the empire, which has really cool roleplaying dynamics - but also cool dynamics when dealing with people from the land.

--[[User:Jman5000|Jman5000]] 10:46, 25 August 2006 (PDT)

Talk:TROS in the Hammer:Characters ThundersRumble

2006-08-25T16:59:06Z

Jman5000:

Finished first version...future major changes should be accompanied by notes here. [[User:Skalchemist|Skalchemist]] 19:33, 21 August 2006 (PDT)

: Ok, time to start adding some more details about "Thunder Rumble" (I will have a suitable Amrindian sounding name for him as well once game starts).

Background. Thunder Rumble was born the youngest of 4 siblings. there were 2 other brothers and a sister, in which only 1 brother remains alive. During child birth, his mother died, and the cries of anguish from his father were drowned out due to the tempest storm overhead - hence the name. As the youngest, Thunder was oft neglected and forced to fend for himself while the others worked the land or tended choirs. the expectation was that Thunder would eventually join his family as a farmer and herdsman. Temperament wise, thunder was a jovial kid though with darker tendencies. His peers seemed to naturally gravitate to him and he always seemed to be in the middle of any scheme afoot in the village. a few years before his name day, Thunders father remarried and now also has several half-brothers and sisters from his "near mother".

:: Hans, I need your ok on this part - it would be pretty cool IMO if the shaman for example was the wife of my father (or some kind of close relation) and that my secret love of the daughter has the added angle of being a 'bit' genetically close - not only is the love hidden, but there is also a bit of a social taboo in this

: Two years past his name day, while idling about the village the press gang for the Empire arrived. Being a strong and burly boy, Thunder was quickly grabbed and though he struggled mightily, was subdued and bound in chains to be sent to the large training forts to the west.

The promise of the Empire is explicit - you serve 20 years in the armed services and you get released with honours, you receive a plot of land to call your own, and you become a full citizen. The unspoken promise was also explicit, the people were always used as the shock troops for every war, skirmish or battle ever fought. Few, very few people ever made it to 20 years service, the Empire made sure of that. turns out that the people are not loyal or docile and having all the strong males sent elsewhere and hopefully die, only serves to keep the peace better than any number of battalions stations in the peoples land.

Through years of hard training, hard fighting and hard living, the captains and generals of the Empires armies began to see leadership qualities in Thunder. Firstly he survived where most others didn't. He seemed to show genuine care for the men in his unit and on several occasions risked his body to save another, or do drag a wounded comrade to safety. But most importantly, the couple of times when his squad leader fell in combat, Thunder would continue the attack and succeed. Proposing that Thunder be raised to the officer ranks, he had to demonstrate loyalty towards the empire, had to give an extra 5 years of service, and was required to follow any order he was given by his superiors. Knowing that life as an officer meant more privileges, but more importantly gave him the opportunity to save more of his people when other officers just saw them as meat to throw at the grinder, Thunder grabbed the opportunity, made the necessary oaths and agreed to a five year extension.

rising quickly from squad leader, to platoon leader to company leader, rumours abounded that he was being groomed to become a possible district commander - possibly even the land where the people lived (though he never realized this promise would never be fulfilled, it just doesn't make business sense for a local commander to command a district. too much room for rebellion with that setup). all the soldiers serving under him loved him not because he was an easy commander, but because he was a fair commander, and was a superior tactician. You simply had a better chance to live when commanded by Thunder than with any other commander.

The Proverbial straw that broke the camels back came during the campaign to suppress the northern rebellion. Leading 500 men, Thunder was ordered to take a heavily fortified town at all cost, and then execute all women and children as retribution for an ambush on a pilgrim caravan that happened a fortnight earlier. rumours abounded that the ambush was staged, that neither pilgrim nor rebels were involved and that this was just a pretext to commit genocide on a national level. Tactically assessing the fortified town, Thunder also realized that 500 men, while theoretically sufficient to take the town, the cost to his own men was too high, estimated at 90% losses. Seeing that his men emphasized with these rebels, knowing that this "ambush" was just a pretext for legal genocide and disgusted in his leaderships lack of regard for his men’s welfare, Thunder decided at that point to desert en-mass with his men, lead them back to the land to be free. Knowing that he would put everyone in jeopardy with this plan, he asked his men if this was what they wanted. With a rousing cry, it was settled - free at last, but outlaw, deserter, and wanted.

Quietly returning to his village, Thunder discovered that much had changed during his years away.
[Edit: removed much excess verbage which can be better role played] The scope of these changes Thunder is only just starting to realize.

Recently, Thunder has quietly began thinking and plotting about the day when the Empire was no longer ruling over the people. His plans are not yet formulated, but he does know that the people can care for themselves much better than the empire can, that to break the yoke, a firm hand will be needed - but firstly, the people must know they are in the hands of a true leader, one who is looking after only their best wishes and is not secretly a dog of the empire - self serving their own interests in wealth over the suffrage of the people. Thunder took the ancient 'peoples oath' to demonstrate his intentions, and has only just begun traveling throughout his tribes lands, speaking to the villagers and farmers and letting the people know that there is someone who is starting to do something...

He is currently traveling, between farms, away from the village...
--[[User:Jman5000|Jman5000]] 08:11, 25 August 2006 (PDT)

:Awesome, awesome stuff! a few comments...

:*Please don't change the name, I like it just the way it is.
:: Not changing the name, just adding his amairindian 'real name' to it --[[User:Jman5000|Jman5000]] 09:59, 25 August 2006 (PDT)
*The press gang's offer should be phrased more like this: Either you become an employee soldier for us, or we send you to the slave pits as property. Serve us willingly and we pay you or serve us unwillingly and we won't, but either way you WILL serve us. The standard "employment contract" would be 20 years, but it would be renewable at the discretion of the Authority. Membership in the Authority (the equivalent of citzenship) I'm thinking should not be explicitly on the table, but COULD be possible, more of a carrot for good service; maybe the Chairman-Dictator can hand out a small number of memberships each year. The Authority probably does this to all the surrounding groups, forming "Employee Regiments" from all over the place, and probably mixes them up; Thunder would have served with fellow soldiers from a number of different cultures, not just the People. In fact, the only caveat on Employee Regiments is that they NEVER serve in their own home lands; they only serve elsewhere. This also allows the Authority to fight a rebellion in one place with the possible rebels from another place, and commit few of their own people to the actual fight. This is like the British using troops from India to fight in the Boxer Rebellion in China.
*I'm thinking the desertion en-masse is a bit much, given the mixture of cultures. The Authority does not encourage sympathy among its employee regiments. But more importantly, what happened to the other soldiers? I suggest the following alternative; faced with the possible destruction of his entire unit in the process of genocide, Thunder led a mutiny against the senior officers, with the intent of leading the men into the wilderness to the North of the Authority (perhaps eventually returning to his own lands). The mutiny was successful, briefly, but then the Authority moved in several Banner regiments, who crushed the mutiny (the Authority carefully makes sure its member troops are better equipped than the employees), and Thunder barely escaped with his own life.
:: I was sort of playing on the idea that I was commanded to lead a contingent of people from my land. my leadership meant that there were fewer problems with them following orders, and killing captains etc.. I didn't think that Thunder was leading a ragtag band of multi-ethnic soldiers but more like a unified group from the same region. Makes business sense - we know each others customs, can work together, and be more efficient that way, no communication issues etc... Don't mind if it's different, I'll just change things and have him desert/stage a rebellion against his commanding officers with most of his troup getting wiped out as a result. --[[User:Jman5000|Jman5000]] 09:59, 25 August 2006 (PDT)
*An interesting modification; you have the brand of an employee soldier, but not the brand of a PENSIONED or DISCHARGED employee soldier. Therefore, if you are ever captured and someone from the Authority gets a good look at your (name a body part), it will be obvious you are a deserter. You COULD forge the discharge brand, I suppose but I'm going to make you play that out and not let it be in the back story. :)
:: I really like this, because branding connotates ownership, thus you think you are free, but they still own you, because they can brand you... neat! I say the brands should be around ones neck, as a sort of flesh necklace. each quadrant of ones neck has a signifigance, and it's outlawed to conceal one's branding --[[User:Jman5000|Jman5000]] 09:59, 25 August 2006 (PDT)
*I'd like to put as much of the last two paragraphs as possible into the game instead of backstory. In other words, instead of saying "Thunder discovered much had changed", I think it would be fun to PLAY OUT Thunder discovering just how much has changed. Backstory isn't as much fun as play. Does that make sense?[[User:Skalchemist|Skalchemist]] 09:27, 25 August 2006 (PDT)

:: makes sense. I've modified the last couple of paragraphs slightly... more edits to come to incorporate the more corporate feel of the empire, and to slightly change the desertion. --[[User:Jman5000|Jman5000]] 09:59, 25 August 2006 (PDT)

Talk:TROS in the Hammer:Characters ThundersRumble

2006-08-25T16:58:50Z

Jman5000:

Finished first version...future major changes should be accompanied by notes here. [[User:Skalchemist|Skalchemist]] 19:33, 21 August 2006 (PDT)

: Ok, time to start adding some more details about "Thunder Rumble" (I will have a suitable Amrindian sounding name for him as well once game starts).

Background. Thunder Rumble was born the youngest of 4 siblings. there were 2 other brothers and a sister, in which only 1 brother remains alive. During child birth, his mother died, and the cries of anguish from his father were drowned out due to the tempest storm overhead - hence the name. As the youngest, Thunder was oft neglected and forced to fend for himself while the others worked the land or tended choirs. the expectation was that Thunder would eventually join his family as a farmer and herdsman. Temperament wise, thunder was a jovial kid though with darker tendencies. His peers seemed to naturally gravitate to him and he always seemed to be in the middle of any scheme afoot in the village. a few years before his name day, Thunders father remarried and now also has several half-brothers and sisters from his "near mother".

:: Hans, I need your ok on this part - it would be pretty cool IMO if the shaman for example was the wife of my father (or some kind of close relation) and that my secret love of the daughter has the added angle of being a 'bit' genetically close - not only is the love hidden, but there is also a bit of a social taboo in this

: Two years past his name day, while idling about the village the press gang for the Empire arrived. Being a strong and burly boy, Thunder was quickly grabbed and though he struggled mightily, was subdued and bound in chains to be sent to the large training forts to the west.

The promise of the Empire is explicit - you serve 20 years in the armed services and you get released with honours, you receive a plot of land to call your own, and you become a full citizen. The unspoken promise was also explicit, the people were always used as the shock troops for every war, skirmish or battle ever fought. Few, very few people ever made it to 20 years service, the Empire made sure of that. turns out that the people are not loyal or docile and having all the strong males sent elsewhere and hopefully die, only serves to keep the peace better than any number of battalions stations in the peoples land.

Through years of hard training, hard fighting and hard living, the captains and generals of the Empires armies began to see leadership qualities in Thunder. Firstly he survived where most others didn't. He seemed to show genuine care for the men in his unit and on several occasions risked his body to save another, or do drag a wounded comrade to safety. But most importantly, the couple of times when his squad leader fell in combat, Thunder would continue the attack and succeed. Proposing that Thunder be raised to the officer ranks, he had to demonstrate loyalty towards the empire, had to give an extra 5 years of service, and was required to follow any order he was given by his superiors. Knowing that life as an officer meant more privileges, but more importantly gave him the opportunity to save more of his people when other officers just saw them as meat to throw at the grinder, Thunder grabbed the opportunity, made the necessary oaths and agreed to a five year extension.

rising quickly from squad leader, to platoon leader to company leader, rumours abounded that he was being groomed to become a possible district commander - possibly even the land where the people lived (though he never realized this promise would never be fulfilled, it just doesn't make business sense for a local commander to command a district. too much room for rebellion with that setup). all the soldiers serving under him loved him not because he was an easy commander, but because he was a fair commander, and was a superior tactician. You simply had a better chance to live when commanded by Thunder than with any other commander.

The Proverbial straw that broke the camels back came during the campaign to suppress the northern rebellion. Leading 500 men, Thunder was ordered to take a heavily fortified town at all cost, and then execute all women and children as retribution for an ambush on a pilgrim caravan that happened a fortnight earlier. rumours abounded that the ambush was staged, that neither pilgrim nor rebels were involved and that this was just a pretext to commit genocide on a national level. Tactically assessing the fortified town, Thunder also realized that 500 men, while theoretically sufficient to take the town, the cost to his own men was too high, estimated at 90% losses. Seeing that his men emphasized with these rebels, knowing that this "ambush" was just a pretext for legal genocide and disgusted in his leaderships lack of regard for his men’s welfare, Thunder decided at that point to desert en-mass with his men, lead them back to the land to be free. Knowing that he would put everyone in jeopardy with this plan, he asked his men if this was what they wanted. With a rousing cry, it was settled - free at last, but outlaw, deserter, and wanted.

Quietly returning to his village, Thunder discovered that much had changed during his years away.
[Edit: removed much excess verbage which can be better role played] The scope of these changes Thunder is only just starting to realize.

Recently, Thunder has quietly began thinking and plotting about the day when the Empire was no longer ruling over the people. His plans are not yet formulated, but he does know that the people can care for themselves much better than the empire can, that to break the yoke, a firm hand will be needed - but firstly, the people must know they are in the hands of a true leader, one who is looking after only their best wishes and is not secretly a dog of the empire - self serving their own interests in wealth over the suffrage of the people. Thunder took the ancient 'peoples oath' to demonstrate his intentions, and has only just begun traveling throughout his tribes lands, speaking to the villagers and farmers and letting the people know that there is someone who is starting to do something...

He is currently traveling, between farms, away from the village...
--[[User:Jman5000|Jman5000]] 08:11, 25 August 2006 (PDT)

:Awesome, awesome stuff! a few comments...

:*Please don't change the name, I like it just the way it is.
:: Not changing the name, just adding his amairindian 'real name' to it --[[User:Jman5000|Jman5000]] 09:58, 25 August 2006 (PDT)
*The press gang's offer should be phrased more like this: Either you become an employee soldier for us, or we send you to the slave pits as property. Serve us willingly and we pay you or serve us unwillingly and we won't, but either way you WILL serve us. The standard "employment contract" would be 20 years, but it would be renewable at the discretion of the Authority. Membership in the Authority (the equivalent of citzenship) I'm thinking should not be explicitly on the table, but COULD be possible, more of a carrot for good service; maybe the Chairman-Dictator can hand out a small number of memberships each year. The Authority probably does this to all the surrounding groups, forming "Employee Regiments" from all over the place, and probably mixes them up; Thunder would have served with fellow soldiers from a number of different cultures, not just the People. In fact, the only caveat on Employee Regiments is that they NEVER serve in their own home lands; they only serve elsewhere. This also allows the Authority to fight a rebellion in one place with the possible rebels from another place, and commit few of their own people to the actual fight. This is like the British using troops from India to fight in the Boxer Rebellion in China.
*I'm thinking the desertion en-masse is a bit much, given the mixture of cultures. The Authority does not encourage sympathy among its employee regiments. But more importantly, what happened to the other soldiers? I suggest the following alternative; faced with the possible destruction of his entire unit in the process of genocide, Thunder led a mutiny against the senior officers, with the intent of leading the men into the wilderness to the North of the Authority (perhaps eventually returning to his own lands). The mutiny was successful, briefly, but then the Authority moved in several Banner regiments, who crushed the mutiny (the Authority carefully makes sure its member troops are better equipped than the employees), and Thunder barely escaped with his own life.
:: I was sort of playing on the idea that I was commanded to lead a contingent of people from my land. my leadership meant that there were fewer problems with them following orders, and killing captains etc.. I didn't think that Thunder was leading a ragtag band of multi-ethnic soldiers but more like a unified group from the same region. Makes business sense - we know each others customs, can work together, and be more efficient that way, no communication issues etc... Don't mind if it's different, I'll just change things and have him desert/stage a rebellion against his commanding officers with most of his troup getting wiped out as a result. --[[User:Jman5000|Jman5000]] 09:58, 25 August 2006 (PDT)
*An interesting modification; you have the brand of an employee soldier, but not the brand of a PENSIONED or DISCHARGED employee soldier. Therefore, if you are ever captured and someone from the Authority gets a good look at your (name a body part), it will be obvious you are a deserter. You COULD forge the discharge brand, I suppose but I'm going to make you play that out and not let it be in the back story. :)
:: I really like this, because branding connotates ownership, thus you think you are free, but they still own you, because they can brand you... neat! I say the brands should be around ones neck, as a sort of flesh necklace. each quadrant of ones neck has a signifigance, and it's outlawed to conceal one's branding --[[User:Jman5000|Jman5000]] 09:58, 25 August 2006 (PDT)
*I'd like to put as much of the last two paragraphs as possible into the game instead of backstory. In other words, instead of saying "Thunder discovered much had changed", I think it would be fun to PLAY OUT Thunder discovering just how much has changed. Backstory isn't as much fun as play. Does that make sense?[[User:Skalchemist|Skalchemist]] 09:27, 25 August 2006 (PDT)

:: makes sense. I've modified the last couple of paragraphs slightly... more edits to come to incorporate the more corporate feel of the empire, and to slightly change the desertion. --[[User:Jman5000|Jman5000]] 09:58, 25 August 2006 (PDT)

Talk:TROS in the Hammer:Characters ThundersRumble

2006-08-25T15:11:10Z

Jman5000:

Talk:TROS in the Hammer:Setting Political

2006-08-24T16:07:56Z

Jman5000:

Talk:TROS in the Hammer:Setting Political

2006-08-24T16:07:03Z

Jman5000:

Talk:TROS in the Hammer:Setting Political

2006-08-24T16:02:36Z

Jman5000:

Talk:TROS in the Hammer:Setting Political

2006-08-24T15:13:34Z

Jman5000:

Please post any comments yo--[[User:Jman5000|Jman5000]] 13:48, 23 August 2006 (PDT)u might have here. [[User:Skalchemist|Skalchemist]] 08:02, 23 August 2006 (PDT)
----
Justin had a bunch of questions - here are the answers.
1) loyalty towards the tribe --[[User:Jman5000|Jman5000]] 13:48, 23 August 2006 (PDT)spirit? With 'living and breathing' spirits communicating to the tribes, I'm guessing some kind of loyalty will be required both towards our 'protectors and guides' of an equal level as towards the shaman and circle of leaders... When confronted with another spirit - Say Pete's Character - would there not be superstitious hostility towards it? Game wise, are we all ok with some level of interpersonal conflict that may arise from this situation? (I am ok with it... It's only a game after all, pretty sure you are, you narritivist freak! But is pete/vic ok with that?)

: Each tribe has a tribe spirit? Thats fine with me, sort of a main totem/god for that tribe. Cool. Pete's character is NOT one of these, though; he is a personal servant type spirit. Chances are any one of the People would recognize Pete for what he is (unless he is disguised somehow). It would be wise to be suspicious of ANY spirit you do not know or who has not been contacted/anchored by a shaman you trust. I would say if there is NOT some interpersonal conflict on this issue, we aren't having fun. [[User:Skalchemist|Skalchemist]] 10:42, 23 August 2006 (PDT)

::Sorry, I had just assumed that all tribes would have their own totem, with their own spirit attached to each. Hence the huge affront caused when Vic stole the totem that housed Pete's Spirit. I suppose we don't have to play it with every tribe/clan having it's own protector spirit. It really doesn't matter all that much to me. --[[User:Jman5000|Jman5000]] 11:30, 23 August 2006 (PDT)

:::No sorry, I think it is a cool idea...lets use it, at least among the people. If and when the other tribe realizes Pete has been stolen, they will be pissed off, but not as in "They stole our god!" and more like "They stole one of our cool things!"[[User:Skalchemist|Skalchemist]] 12:30, 23 August 2006 (PDT)

2) can we talk to our spirit guides, can we get our own spirit guides, will there be any real world tangible impact should a spirit guide get banished? Does the Tribe become unlucky for example?

: If each tribe has its own totem/god spirit, then destroying the anchors to that powerful spirit would certainly deal a major blow to that spirit. I don't have the rules written yet for how a shaman deals with spirits, but any spirit powerful enough to serve as a totem/god is pretty darn hard to contact, and losing the ancestral anchors would be a big deal. As to game mechanical effects of a totem/god spirit for the tribe; probably macro things, like assistance with crops/hunting, assitance in battle, etc. Individual level game mechanical effects would be rare. As to getting your own spirit, well, Vic's character has one, so we know at least one method; theft. :) [[User:Skalchemist|Skalchemist]] 10:42, 23 August 2006 (PDT)
: As to talking with spirits...you can talk to any anchored, or embodied spirit that can speak a human language (generally any spirit that has at least three qualities might be communicative). In the case of embodied spirits, you just talk to their body, no matter how strange it may be. In the case of anchored spirits, you talk to them through their anchors; the exact method will vary depending on the form of the anchor. In the case of contacted spirits, only a shaman can speak with them. Notional spirits are, well, notional, and can't be communicated with at all. I'll add this stuff to the actual page. [[User:Skalchemist|Skalchemist]] 10:46, 23 August 2006 (PDT)

3) there's a 4th option for the destiny of the people. Much like how the Mongols managed to insert themselves into Chinese culture and basically start a dynasty, the same 'could' happen with the people. Take over Empire 1, supplant the existing leadership with leadership from the people etc. etc... :)

: Sounds good to me. [[User:Skalchemist|Skalchemist]] 10:42, 23 August 2006 (PDT)

4) if the land is rich in minerals, wouldn't empire 1 just have 'assimilated' us, taken over the land for themselves, and pushed the people onto reservations for example...

: Empire 1 finds it much easier to make one tribe responsible (and paying them with favours and other stuff) for getting the metal delivered on time, stationing a few regiments of troops near the mines, and just generally telling the People "as long as the iron keeps flowing, we'll leave you alone, but miss one shipment and will slaughter a village or two". Empire 1 is not an empire of colonists; they have no desire to live outside their own lands. They just want other peoples stuff to pad their own nests, and will take whatever steps are necessary to keep the stuff flowing. [[User:Skalchemist|Skalchemist]] 10:42, 23 August 2006 (PDT)

5) will there be monsters?

: If by monsters you mean things like beholders, ogres, etc., then probably not. If by monsters you mean animals that are very different from current Earth animals, I would say probably. If you mean by monsters strange spirit creatures (like Pete's character) under the control of humans, then almost certainly. [[User:Skalchemist|Skalchemist]] 10:42, 23 August 2006 (PDT)

::With monsters, I wasn't thinking D&D traditional monsters - more, evil spirits, evil shamans and their summonings, possibly 'warped' animals from whatever calamity happened. Thinking more one off horror type creatures than traditional monsters with ecology etc. --[[User:Jman5000|Jman5000]] 11:30, 23 August 2006 (PDT)

:::Those kinds of monsters...oh yeah baby. You better believe it. [[User:Skalchemist|Skalchemist]] 12:30, 23 August 2006 (PDT)

::::groovy, ok then, we've got a mix of Cthulu vs. Sword and Sorcery... I like it!!! [grin]. Honestly though, as much as Fantasy feel, I think I'd prefer for a more humanistic kind of game. The fantastic should be VERY Fantastic, WTF??? kind of moments. Nothing IMO saps tension away when your meta knowledge tells you exactly what you are facing... --[[User:Jman5000|Jman5000]] 13:40, 23 August 2006 (PDT)

:::::Agreed, I will try to make the fantastic, fantastic. It may be slight more common then you were thinking, but it won't distract from the humanistic nature of the game; the game will still be about people and what they do.[[User:Skalchemist|Skalchemist]] 14:01, 23 August 2006 (PDT)

----
new question - and this is something which I am thinking about based on another game that I am playing, in that the story is very much driven by a few certain characters - what happens when those characters are no longer part of the game (dead, left the game etc...)??? for the other game, a bunch of "real world" people are swept into another land, facing fantastic situations. the story, the plot, the drives are all very strongly tied to these few people swept into this land.. In my opinion, once all these original characters are gone - the story must end, because there is no longer an incentive or reason to continue looking for a way home (if that was the meta plot). Anyway, a long way of asking.... In Tros or other strongly narritivistic games and trying to create a campaign... what happens when the protagonists die or leave? How can continuinity continue if a major plot line all of a sudden stops? Uniting the tribes may be my goal, and may be a really cool story line to work on and to role play against, but as soon as my character dies, I'm not sure if that would continue being interesting... anyway, just musing outloud here... --[[User:Jman5000|Jman5000]] 13:48, 23 August 2006 (PDT)

:Good question. My feeling is that if one or more of the main protagonists (i.e. the characters we start with) dies, then the story will either change or end. No way around it. I won't try to push it one way or the other. Its one reason why I'm frankly glad we DIDN'T go with the 'stranger in a strange land' thing; TROS is too fatal, conceivably, and the concept needs a rules set that keeps the protagonists alive (regardless of what other horrible stuff might happen to them). That being said, death is not a guaranteed thing in this game; if faced with very deadly opposition (i.e. you are outnumbered in almost any fashion, people have the drop on you with missle weapons, etc.), you can always run away, surrender, or try to talk your way out. Remember this is NOT a cinematic/heroic game, where the characters are absurdly resilient and insanely foolhardy. Those are not survival traits in TROS. Surrender, run away, or talk; don't forget those words. I promise you that if you surrender, the game will not get boring; in fact I promise oodles of interesting (albeit terrifying) stuff will happen if you surrender. MWAHAHAHAHAAHA!!! [[User:Skalchemist|Skalchemist]] 14:01, 23 August 2006 (PDT)

:: may I make a suggestion? It's a little bit railroady, but might work for our campaign. At least for the first little while, if any character dies, can we create new characters at least from the same tribe/region? This should *help* in keeping the story going while still giving you total options on what your characteristics are... once we get a feel for the ebb and flow of a TRoS game, we can then expand the characters more and bring in different people from different regions. Anyway, just a though to possibly make things in the beginnins easier --[[User:Jman5000|Jman5000]] 08:13, 24 August 2006 (PDT)

Talk:TROS in the Hammer:Setting Political

2006-08-23T20:48:04Z

Jman5000:

Please post any comments yo--[[User:Jman5000|Jman5000]] 13:48, 23 August 2006 (PDT)u might have here. [[User:Skalchemist|Skalchemist]] 08:02, 23 August 2006 (PDT)
----
Justin had a bunch of questions - here are the answers.
1) loyalty towards the tribe --[[User:Jman5000|Jman5000]] 13:48, 23 August 2006 (PDT)spirit? With 'living and breathing' spirits communicating to the tribes, I'm guessing some kind of loyalty will be required both towards our 'protectors and guides' of an equal level as towards the shaman and circle of leaders... When confronted with another spirit - Say Pete's Character - would there not be superstitious hostility towards it? Game wise, are we all ok with some level of interpersonal conflict that may arise from this situation? (I am ok with it... It's only a game after all, pretty sure you are, you narritivist freak! But is pete/vic ok with that?)

: Each tribe has a tribe spirit? Thats fine with me, sort of a main totem/god for that tribe. Cool. Pete's character is NOT one of these, though; he is a personal servant type spirit. Chances are any one of the People would recognize Pete for what he is (unless he is disguised somehow). It would be wise to be suspicious of ANY spirit you do not know or who has not been contacted/anchored by a shaman you trust. I would say if there is NOT some interpersonal conflict on this issue, we aren't having fun. [[User:Skalchemist|Skalchemist]] 10:42, 23 August 2006 (PDT)

::Sorry, I had just assumed that all tribes would have their own totem, with their own spirit attached to each. Hence the huge affront caused when Vic stole the totem that housed Pete's Spirit. I suppose we don't have to play it with every tribe/clan having it's own protector spirit. It really doesn't matter all that much to me. --[[User:Jman5000|Jman5000]] 11:30, 23 August 2006 (PDT)

:::No sorry, I think it is a cool idea...lets use it, at least among the people. If and when the other tribe realizes Pete has been stolen, they will be pissed off, but not as in "They stole our god!" and more like "They stole one of our cool things!"[[User:Skalchemist|Skalchemist]] 12:30, 23 August 2006 (PDT)

2) can we talk to our spirit guides, can we get our own spirit guides, will there be any real world tangible impact should a spirit guide get banished? Does the Tribe become unlucky for example?

: If each tribe has its own totem/god spirit, then destroying the anchors to that powerful spirit would certainly deal a major blow to that spirit. I don't have the rules written yet for how a shaman deals with spirits, but any spirit powerful enough to serve as a totem/god is pretty darn hard to contact, and losing the ancestral anchors would be a big deal. As to game mechanical effects of a totem/god spirit for the tribe; probably macro things, like assistance with crops/hunting, assitance in battle, etc. Individual level game mechanical effects would be rare. As to getting your own spirit, well, Vic's character has one, so we know at least one method; theft. :) [[User:Skalchemist|Skalchemist]] 10:42, 23 August 2006 (PDT)
: As to talking with spirits...you can talk to any anchored, or embodied spirit that can speak a human language (generally any spirit that has at least three qualities might be communicative). In the case of embodied spirits, you just talk to their body, no matter how strange it may be. In the case of anchored spirits, you talk to them through their anchors; the exact method will vary depending on the form of the anchor. In the case of contacted spirits, only a shaman can speak with them. Notional spirits are, well, notional, and can't be communicated with at all. I'll add this stuff to the actual page. [[User:Skalchemist|Skalchemist]] 10:46, 23 August 2006 (PDT)

3) there's a 4th option for the destiny of the people. Much like how the Mongols managed to insert themselves into Chinese culture and basically start a dynasty, the same 'could' happen with the people. Take over Empire 1, supplant the existing leadership with leadership from the people etc. etc... :)

: Sounds good to me. [[User:Skalchemist|Skalchemist]] 10:42, 23 August 2006 (PDT)

4) if the land is rich in minerals, wouldn't empire 1 just have 'assimilated' us, taken over the land for themselves, and pushed the people onto reservations for example...

: Empire 1 finds it much easier to make one tribe responsible (and paying them with favours and other stuff) for getting the metal delivered on time, stationing a few regiments of troops near the mines, and just generally telling the People "as long as the iron keeps flowing, we'll leave you alone, but miss one shipment and will slaughter a village or two". Empire 1 is not an empire of colonists; they have no desire to live outside their own lands. They just want other peoples stuff to pad their own nests, and will take whatever steps are necessary to keep the stuff flowing. [[User:Skalchemist|Skalchemist]] 10:42, 23 August 2006 (PDT)

5) will there be monsters?

: If by monsters you mean things like beholders, ogres, etc., then probably not. If by monsters you mean animals that are very different from current Earth animals, I would say probably. If you mean by monsters strange spirit creatures (like Pete's character) under the control of humans, then almost certainly. [[User:Skalchemist|Skalchemist]] 10:42, 23 August 2006 (PDT)

::With monsters, I wasn't thinking D&D traditional monsters - more, evil spirits, evil shamans and their summonings, possibly 'warped' animals from whatever calamity happened. Thinking more one off horror type creatures than traditional monsters with ecology etc. --[[User:Jman5000|Jman5000]] 11:30, 23 August 2006 (PDT)

:::Those kinds of monsters...oh yeah baby. You better believe it. [[User:Skalchemist|Skalchemist]] 12:30, 23 August 2006 (PDT)

::::groovy, ok then, we've got a mix of Cthulu vs. Sword and Sorcery... I like it!!! [grin]. Honestly though, as much as Fantasy feel, I think I'd prefer for a more humanistic kind of game. The fantastic should be VERY Fantastic, WTF??? kind of moments. Nothing IMO saps tension away when your meta knowledge tells you exactly what you are facing... --[[User:Jman5000|Jman5000]] 13:40, 23 August 2006 (PDT)

----
new question - and this is something which I am thinking about based on another game that I am playing, in that the story is very much driven by a few certain characters - what happens when those characters are no longer part of the game (dead, left the game etc...)??? for the other game, a bunch of "real world" people are swept into another land, facing fantastic situations. the story, the plot, the drives are all very strongly tied to these few people swept into this land.. In my opinion, once all these original characters are gone - the story must end, because there is no longer an incentive or reason to continue looking for a way home (if that was the meta plot). Anyway, a long way of asking.... In Tros or other strongly narritivistic games and trying to create a campaign... what happens when the protagonists die or leave? How can continuinity continue if a major plot line all of a sudden stops? Uniting the tribes may be my goal, and may be a really cool story line to work on and to role play against, but as soon as my character dies, I'm not sure if that would continue being interesting... anyway, just musing outloud here... --[[User:Jman5000|Jman5000]] 13:48, 23 August 2006 (PDT)

Talk:TROS in the Hammer:Setting Political

2006-08-23T20:40:25Z

Jman5000:

Please post any comments you might have here. [[User:Skalchemist|Skalchemist]] 08:02, 23 August 2006 (PDT)
----
Justin had a bunch of questions - here are the answers.
1) loyalty towards the tribe spirit? With 'living and breathing' spirits communicating to the tribes, I'm guessing some kind of loyalty will be required both towards our 'protectors and guides' of an equal level as towards the shaman and circle of leaders... When confronted with another spirit - Say Pete's Character - would there not be superstitious hostility towards it? Game wise, are we all ok with some level of interpersonal conflict that may arise from this situation? (I am ok with it... It's only a game after all, pretty sure you are, you narritivist freak! But is pete/vic ok with that?)

: Each tribe has a tribe spirit? Thats fine with me, sort of a main totem/god for that tribe. Cool. Pete's character is NOT one of these, though; he is a personal servant type spirit. Chances are any one of the People would recognize Pete for what he is (unless he is disguised somehow). It would be wise to be suspicious of ANY spirit you do not know or who has not been contacted/anchored by a shaman you trust. I would say if there is NOT some interpersonal conflict on this issue, we aren't having fun. [[User:Skalchemist|Skalchemist]] 10:42, 23 August 2006 (PDT)

::Sorry, I had just assumed that all tribes would have their own totem, with their own spirit attached to each. Hence the huge affront caused when Vic stole the totem that housed Pete's Spirit. I suppose we don't have to play it with every tribe/clan having it's own protector spirit. It really doesn't matter all that much to me. --[[User:Jman5000|Jman5000]] 11:30, 23 August 2006 (PDT)

:::No sorry, I think it is a cool idea...lets use it, at least among the people. If and when the other tribe realizes Pete has been stolen, they will be pissed off, but not as in "They stole our god!" and more like "They stole one of our cool things!"[[User:Skalchemist|Skalchemist]] 12:30, 23 August 2006 (PDT)

2) can we talk to our spirit guides, can we get our own spirit guides, will there be any real world tangible impact should a spirit guide get banished? Does the Tribe become unlucky for example?

: If each tribe has its own totem/god spirit, then destroying the anchors to that powerful spirit would certainly deal a major blow to that spirit. I don't have the rules written yet for how a shaman deals with spirits, but any spirit powerful enough to serve as a totem/god is pretty darn hard to contact, and losing the ancestral anchors would be a big deal. As to game mechanical effects of a totem/god spirit for the tribe; probably macro things, like assistance with crops/hunting, assitance in battle, etc. Individual level game mechanical effects would be rare. As to getting your own spirit, well, Vic's character has one, so we know at least one method; theft. :) [[User:Skalchemist|Skalchemist]] 10:42, 23 August 2006 (PDT)
: As to talking with spirits...you can talk to any anchored, or embodied spirit that can speak a human language (generally any spirit that has at least three qualities might be communicative). In the case of embodied spirits, you just talk to their body, no matter how strange it may be. In the case of anchored spirits, you talk to them through their anchors; the exact method will vary depending on the form of the anchor. In the case of contacted spirits, only a shaman can speak with them. Notional spirits are, well, notional, and can't be communicated with at all. I'll add this stuff to the actual page. [[User:Skalchemist|Skalchemist]] 10:46, 23 August 2006 (PDT)

3) there's a 4th option for the destiny of the people. Much like how the Mongols managed to insert themselves into Chinese culture and basically start a dynasty, the same 'could' happen with the people. Take over Empire 1, supplant the existing leadership with leadership from the people etc. etc... :)

: Sounds good to me. [[User:Skalchemist|Skalchemist]] 10:42, 23 August 2006 (PDT)

4) if the land is rich in minerals, wouldn't empire 1 just have 'assimilated' us, taken over the land for themselves, and pushed the people onto reservations for example...

: Empire 1 finds it much easier to make one tribe responsible (and paying them with favours and other stuff) for getting the metal delivered on time, stationing a few regiments of troops near the mines, and just generally telling the People "as long as the iron keeps flowing, we'll leave you alone, but miss one shipment and will slaughter a village or two". Empire 1 is not an empire of colonists; they have no desire to live outside their own lands. They just want other peoples stuff to pad their own nests, and will take whatever steps are necessary to keep the stuff flowing. [[User:Skalchemist|Skalchemist]] 10:42, 23 August 2006 (PDT)

5) will there be monsters?

: If by monsters you mean things like beholders, ogres, etc., then probably not. If by monsters you mean animals that are very different from current Earth animals, I would say probably. If you mean by monsters strange spirit creatures (like Pete's character) under the control of humans, then almost certainly. [[User:Skalchemist|Skalchemist]] 10:42, 23 August 2006 (PDT)

::With monsters, I wasn't thinking D&D traditional monsters - more, evil spirits, evil shamans and their summonings, possibly 'warped' animals from whatever calamity happened. Thinking more one off horror type creatures than traditional monsters with ecology etc. --[[User:Jman5000|Jman5000]] 11:30, 23 August 2006 (PDT)

:::Those kinds of monsters...oh yeah baby. You better believe it. [[User:Skalchemist|Skalchemist]] 12:30, 23 August 2006 (PDT)

::::groovy, ok then, we've got a mix of Cthulu vs. Sword and Sorcery... I like it!!! [grin]. Honestly though, as much as Fantasy feel, I think I'd prefer for a more humanistic kind of game. The fantastic should be VERY Fantastic, WTF??? kind of moments. Nothing IMO saps tension away when your meta knowledge tells you exactly what you are facing... --[[User:Jman5000|Jman5000]] 13:40, 23 August 2006 (PDT)

Talk:TROS in the Hammer:Setting Political

2006-08-23T18:31:19Z

Jman5000:

Please post any comments you might have here. [[User:Skalchemist|Skalchemist]] 08:02, 23 August 2006 (PDT)

Justin had a bunch of questions - here are the answers.
1) loyalty towards the tribe spirit? With 'living and breathing' spirits communicating to the tribes, I'm guessing some kind of loyalty will be required both towards our 'protectors and guides' of an equal level as towards the shaman and circle of leaders... When confronted with another spirit - Say Pete's Character - would there not be superstitious hostility towards it? Game wise, are we all ok with some level of interpersonal conflict that may arise from this situation? (I am ok with it... It's only a game after all, pretty sure you are, you narritivist freak! But is pete/vic ok with that?)

: Each tribe has a tribe spirit? Thats fine with me, sort of a main totem/god for that tribe. Cool. Pete's character is NOT one of these, though; he is a personal servant type spirit. Chances are any one of the People would recognize Pete for what he is (unless he is disguised somehow). It would be wise to be suspicious of ANY spirit you do not know or who has not been contacted/anchored by a shaman you trust. I would say if there is NOT some interpersonal conflict on this issue, we aren't having fun. [[User:Skalchemist|Skalchemist]] 10:42, 23 August 2006 (PDT)

Sorry, I had just assumed that all tribes would have their own totem, with their own spirit attached to each. Hence the huge affront caused when Vic stole the totem that housed Pete's Spirit. I suppose we don't have to play it with every tribe/clan having it's own protector spirit. It really doesn't matter all that much to me. --[[User:Jman5000|Jman5000]] 11:30, 23 August 2006 (PDT)

2) can we talk to our spirit guides, can we get our own spirit guides, will there be any real world tangible impact should a spirit guide get banished? Does the Tribe become unlucky for example?

: If each tribe has its own totem/god spirit, then destroying the anchors to that powerful spirit would certainly deal a major blow to that spirit. I don't have the rules written yet for how a shaman deals with spirits, but any spirit powerful enough to serve as a totem/god is pretty darn hard to contact, and losing the ancestral anchors would be a big deal. As to game mechanical effects of a totem/god spirit for the tribe; probably macro things, like assistance with crops/hunting, assitance in battle, etc. Individual level game mechanical effects would be rare. As to getting your own spirit, well, Vic's character has one, so we know at least one method; theft. :) [[User:Skalchemist|Skalchemist]] 10:42, 23 August 2006 (PDT)
: As to talking with spirits...you can talk to any anchored, or embodied spirit that can speak a human language (generally any spirit that has at least three qualities might be communicative). In the case of embodied spirits, you just talk to their body, no matter how strange it may be. In the case of anchored spirits, you talk to them through their anchors; the exact method will vary depending on the form of the anchor. In the case of contacted spirits, only a shaman can speak with them. Notional spirits are, well, notional, and can't be communicated with at all. I'll add this stuff to the actual page. [[User:Skalchemist|Skalchemist]] 10:46, 23 August 2006 (PDT)

3) there's a 4th option for the destiny of the people. Much like how the Mongols managed to insert themselves into Chinese culture and basically start a dynasty, the same 'could' happen with the people. Take over Empire 1, supplant the existing leadership with leadership from the people etc. etc... :)

: Sounds good to me. [[User:Skalchemist|Skalchemist]] 10:42, 23 August 2006 (PDT)

4) if the land is rich in minerals, wouldn't empire 1 just have 'assimilated' us, taken over the land for themselves, and pushed the people onto reservations for example...

: Empire 1 finds it much easier to make one tribe responsible (and paying them with favours and other stuff) for getting the metal delivered on time, stationing a few regiments of troops near the mines, and just generally telling the People "as long as the iron keeps flowing, we'll leave you alone, but miss one shipment and will slaughter a village or two". Empire 1 is not an empire of colonists; they have no desire to live outside their own lands. They just want other peoples stuff to pad their own nests, and will take whatever steps are necessary to keep the stuff flowing. [[User:Skalchemist|Skalchemist]] 10:42, 23 August 2006 (PDT)

5) will there be monsters?

: If by monsters you mean things like beholders, ogres, etc., then probably not. If by monsters you mean animals that are very different from current Earth animals, I would say probably. If you mean by monsters strange spirit creatures (like Pete's character) under the control of humans, then almost certainly. [[User:Skalchemist|Skalchemist]] 10:42, 23 August 2006 (PDT)

With monsters, I wasn't thinking D&D traditional monsters - more, evil spirits, evil shamans and their summonings, possibly 'warped' animals from whatever calamity happened. Thinking more one off horror type creatures than traditional monsters with ecology etc. --[[User:Jman5000|Jman5000]] 11:30, 23 August 2006 (PDT)

Talk:TROS in the Hammer:Setting Political

2006-08-23T18:30:29Z

Jman5000:

Talk:TROS in the Hammer

2006-08-23T16:21:54Z

Jman5000:

Stuff that will be added: Political background, stuff on magic, who knows what else. [[User:Skalchemist|Skalchemist]] 15:36, 22 August 2006 (PDT)

Couple of questions spring to mind.

1) loyalty towards the tribe spirit? With 'living and breathing' spirits communicating to the tribes, I'm guessing some kind of loyalty will be required both towards our 'protectors and guides' of an equal level as towards the shaman and circle of leaders... When confronted with another spirit - Say Pete's Character - would there not be superstitious hostility towards it? Game wise, are we all ok with some level of interpersonal conflict that may arise from this situation? (I am ok with it... It's only a game after all, pretty sure you are, you narritivist freak! But is pete/vic ok with that?)

2) can we talk to our spirit guides, can we get our own spirit guides, will there be any real world tangible impact should a spirit guide get banished? Does the Tribe become unlucky for example?

3) there's a 4th option for the destiny of the people. Much like how the Mongols managed to insert themselves into Chinese culture and basically start a dynasty, the same 'could' happen with the people. Take over Empire 1, supplant the existing leadership with leadership from the people etc. etc... :)

4) if the land is rich in minerals, wouldn't empire 1 just have 'assimilated' us, taken over the land for themselves, and pushed the people onto reservations for example...

5) will there be monsters?

Justin
----

Talk:TROS in the Hammer

2006-08-23T16:20:52Z

Jman5000: