LeviathanTempest:SatchelDumpingGround - Revision history

206.21.136.201: /* Third Thoughts */

2011-01-31T21:47:08Z

Third Thoughts

← Older revision		Revision as of 21:47, 31 January 2011
Line 96:		Line 96:
	3. A powerstat that represents greater insight into the nature of one's power and is increased by, among other things, Magic Archaeology, sounds an awful lot like Gnosis. A mental world with increasingly abstract layers that are only remotely safely accessible by one splat sounds quite a bit like the Astral Realms with respect to Mages. Also, similar to the Lunacy concern, memory-erasure seems to fall under a Quiescence-like effect.		3. A powerstat that represents greater insight into the nature of one's power and is increased by, among other things, Magic Archaeology, sounds an awful lot like Gnosis. A mental world with increasingly abstract layers that are only remotely safely accessible by one splat sounds quite a bit like the Astral Realms with respect to Mages. Also, similar to the Lunacy concern, memory-erasure seems to fall under a Quiescence-like effect.

	4. Promethean did the monstrous mutant engine of destruction thing quite well already with Centimani and Pandoran Transmutations. Pandorans likewise pull off Typhons rather nicely with Titanic Form and Praecepitati.		4. Promethean did the monstrous mutant engine of destruction thing quite well already with Centimani and Pandoran Transmutations. Pandorans likewise pull off Typhons rather nicely with Titanic Form and Praecepitati. While we're at it, Ahabs can be done simply by having a particularly obsessive victim of fourth-stage Disquiet.

	5. You're subsumed into a psychoactive realm and given over to your Vice when you hit Morality 0 in a certain otherworldly place. Are you a changeling turning into a True Fae or a leviathan turning into a Deep One?		5. You're subsumed into a psychoactive realm and given over to your Vice when you hit Morality 0 in a certain otherworldly place. Are you a changeling turning into a True Fae or a leviathan turning into a Deep One?

	[More in this space as consolidation continues.]		[More in this space as consolidation continues.]

206.21.136.201: /* Third Thoughts */

2010-12-10T23:18:36Z

Third Thoughts

← Older revision		Revision as of 23:18, 10 December 2010
Line 88:		Line 88:
	== Third Thoughts ==		== Third Thoughts ==

	The game ~~is looking increasingly~~ like a Frankensteinean mash-up of the various splats rather than anything original. To wit:		The longer I look at it, the more this game seems like a Frankensteinean mash-up of the various splats rather than anything original. To wit:

	1. Psychic powers, thralls and potent blood that gets more potent as one increases in power are well-represented in Vampire. (Ties to a Vice based on inborn splat are also explicitly illustrated in that game.)		1. Psychic powers, thralls and potent blood that gets more potent as one increases in power are well-represented in Vampire. (Ties to a Vice based on inborn splat are also explicitly illustrated in that game.)
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	2. Shapeshifting into a monstrous form with an associated PTSD-like effect on onlookers has been done with Lunacy in Werewolf, which has actual mechanics for it that doesn't require an esoteric sub-power to thwart technology. (Also, the failure to make good on the "Werewolf's Paleolithic, Leviathan's Paleozoic!" line means the two are drawing from the exact same era, except that Werewolf's First Tongue can actually pass for a pre-Babylonian language.)		2. Shapeshifting into a monstrous form with an associated PTSD-like effect on onlookers has been done with Lunacy in Werewolf, which has actual mechanics for it that doesn't require an esoteric sub-power to thwart technology. (Also, the failure to make good on the "Werewolf's Paleolithic, Leviathan's Paleozoic!" line means the two are drawing from the exact same era, except that Werewolf's First Tongue can actually pass for a pre-Babylonian language.)

	3. A powerstat that represents greater insight into the nature of one's power and is increased by, among other things, Magic Archaeology, sounds an awful lot like Gnosis. A mental world with increasingly abstract layers that are only remotely safely accessible by one splat sounds quite a bit like the Astral Realms with respect to Mages.		3. A powerstat that represents greater insight into the nature of one's power and is increased by, among other things, Magic Archaeology, sounds an awful lot like Gnosis. A mental world with increasingly abstract layers that are only remotely safely accessible by one splat sounds quite a bit like the Astral Realms with respect to Mages. Also, similar to the Lunacy concern, memory-erasure seems to fall under a Quiescence-like effect.

	4. Promethean did the monstrous mutant engine of destruction thing quite well already with Centimani and Pandoran Transmutations. Pandorans likewise pull off Typhons rather nicely with Titanic Form and Praecepitati.		4. Promethean did the monstrous mutant engine of destruction thing quite well already with Centimani and Pandoran Transmutations. Pandorans likewise pull off Typhons rather nicely with Titanic Form and Praecepitati.

206.21.136.201: /* Third Thoughts */

2010-12-10T23:07:27Z

Third Thoughts

← Older revision		Revision as of 23:07, 10 December 2010
Line 94:		Line 94:
	2. Shapeshifting into a monstrous form with an associated PTSD-like effect on onlookers has been done with Lunacy in Werewolf, which has actual mechanics for it that doesn't require an esoteric sub-power to thwart technology. (Also, the failure to make good on the "Werewolf's Paleolithic, Leviathan's Paleozoic!" line means the two are drawing from the exact same era, except that Werewolf's First Tongue can actually pass for a pre-Babylonian language.)		2. Shapeshifting into a monstrous form with an associated PTSD-like effect on onlookers has been done with Lunacy in Werewolf, which has actual mechanics for it that doesn't require an esoteric sub-power to thwart technology. (Also, the failure to make good on the "Werewolf's Paleolithic, Leviathan's Paleozoic!" line means the two are drawing from the exact same era, except that Werewolf's First Tongue can actually pass for a pre-Babylonian language.)

	3. A powerstat that represents greater insight into the nature of one's power and is increased by, among other things, Magic Archaeology, ~~as well as a~~ mental world with increasingly abstract layers ~~sound an awful lot~~ like ~~Gnosis and~~ the Astral Realms.		3. A powerstat that represents greater insight into the nature of one's power and is increased by, among other things, Magic Archaeology, sounds an awful lot like Gnosis. A mental world with increasingly abstract layers that are only remotely safely accessible by one splat sounds quite a bit like the Astral Realms with respect to Mages.

	4. Promethean did the monstrous mutant engine of destruction thing quite well already with Centimani and Pandoran Transmutations. Pandorans likewise pull off Typhons rather nicely with Titanic Form and Praecepitati.		4. Promethean did the monstrous mutant engine of destruction thing quite well already with Centimani and Pandoran Transmutations. Pandorans likewise pull off Typhons rather nicely with Titanic Form and Praecepitati.

206.21.136.201: /* Third Thoughts */

2010-12-10T23:03:21Z

Third Thoughts

← Older revision		Revision as of 23:03, 10 December 2010
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	The game is looking increasingly like a Frankensteinean mash-up of the various splats rather than anything original. To wit:		The game is looking increasingly like a Frankensteinean mash-up of the various splats rather than anything original. To wit:

	1. Psychic powers, thralls and potent blood that gets more potent as one increases in power is well-represented in Vampire. (Ties to a Vice based on inborn splat are also explicitly illustrated in that game.)		1. Psychic powers, thralls and potent blood that gets more potent as one increases in power are well-represented in Vampire. (Ties to a Vice based on inborn splat are also explicitly illustrated in that game.)

	2. Shapeshifting into a monstrous form with an associated PTSD-like effect on onlookers has been done with Lunacy in Werewolf, which has actual mechanics for it that doesn't require an esoteric sub-power to thwart technology. (Also, the failure to make good on the "Werewolf's Paleolithic, Leviathan's Paleozoic!" line means the two are drawing from the exact same era, except that Werewolf's First Tongue can actually pass for a pre-Babylonian language.)		2. Shapeshifting into a monstrous form with an associated PTSD-like effect on onlookers has been done with Lunacy in Werewolf, which has actual mechanics for it that doesn't require an esoteric sub-power to thwart technology. (Also, the failure to make good on the "Werewolf's Paleolithic, Leviathan's Paleozoic!" line means the two are drawing from the exact same era, except that Werewolf's First Tongue can actually pass for a pre-Babylonian language.)
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	3. A powerstat that represents greater insight into the nature of one's power and is increased by, among other things, Magic Archaeology, as well as a mental world with increasingly abstract layers sound an awful lot like Gnosis and the Astral Realms.		3. A powerstat that represents greater insight into the nature of one's power and is increased by, among other things, Magic Archaeology, as well as a mental world with increasingly abstract layers sound an awful lot like Gnosis and the Astral Realms.

	4. Promethean did the monstrous mutant thing quite well already with Centimani and Pandoran Transmutations. Pandorans likewise pull off Typhons rather nicely with Titanic Form and Praecepitati.		4. Promethean did the monstrous mutant engine of destruction thing quite well already with Centimani and Pandoran Transmutations. Pandorans likewise pull off Typhons rather nicely with Titanic Form and Praecepitati.

	5. You're subsumed into a psychoactive realm and given over to your Vice when you hit Morality 0 in a certain otherworldly place. Are you a changeling turning into a True Fae or a leviathan turning into a Deep One?		5. You're subsumed into a psychoactive realm and given over to your Vice when you hit Morality 0 in a certain otherworldly place. Are you a changeling turning into a True Fae or a leviathan turning into a Deep One?

	[More in this space as consolidation continues.]		[More in this space as consolidation continues.]

206.21.136.201: /* Third Thoughts */

2010-12-10T16:28:11Z

Third Thoughts

← Older revision		Revision as of 16:28, 10 December 2010
Line 91:		Line 91:

	1. Psychic powers, thralls and potent blood that gets more potent as one increases in power is well-represented in Vampire. (Ties to a Vice based on inborn splat are also explicitly illustrated in that game.)		1. Psychic powers, thralls and potent blood that gets more potent as one increases in power is well-represented in Vampire. (Ties to a Vice based on inborn splat are also explicitly illustrated in that game.)

	2. Shapeshifting into a monstrous form with an associated PTSD-like effect on onlookers has been done with Lunacy in Werewolf, which has actual mechanics for it that doesn't require an esoteric sub-power to thwart technology. (Also, the failure to make good on the "Werewolf's Paleolithic, Leviathan's Paleozoic!" line means the two are drawing from the exact same era, except that Werewolf's First Tongue can actually pass for a pre-Babylonian language.)		2. Shapeshifting into a monstrous form with an associated PTSD-like effect on onlookers has been done with Lunacy in Werewolf, which has actual mechanics for it that doesn't require an esoteric sub-power to thwart technology. (Also, the failure to make good on the "Werewolf's Paleolithic, Leviathan's Paleozoic!" line means the two are drawing from the exact same era, except that Werewolf's First Tongue can actually pass for a pre-Babylonian language.)

	3. A powerstat that represents greater insight into the nature of one's power and is increased by, among other things, Magic Archaeology, as well as a mental world with increasingly abstract layers sound an awful lot like Gnosis and the Astral Realms.		3. A powerstat that represents greater insight into the nature of one's power and is increased by, among other things, Magic Archaeology, as well as a mental world with increasingly abstract layers sound an awful lot like Gnosis and the Astral Realms.

	4. Promethean did the monstrous mutant thing quite well already with Centimani and Pandoran Transmutations. Pandorans likewise pull off Typhons rather nicely with Titanic Form and Praecepitati.		4. Promethean did the monstrous mutant thing quite well already with Centimani and Pandoran Transmutations. Pandorans likewise pull off Typhons rather nicely with Titanic Form and Praecepitati.

	5. You're subsumed into a psychoactive realm and given over to your Vice when you hit Morality 0 in a certain otherworldly place. Are you a changeling turning into a True Fae or a leviathan turning into a Deep One?		5. You're subsumed into a psychoactive realm and given over to your Vice when you hit Morality 0 in a certain otherworldly place. Are you a changeling turning into a True Fae or a leviathan turning into a Deep One?

	[More in this space as consolidation continues.]		[More in this space as consolidation continues.]

206.21.136.201: /* Alternative Suggestions */

2010-12-10T16:27:46Z

Alternative Suggestions

← Older revision		Revision as of 16:27, 10 December 2010
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	I feel I should point out that our character creation rules seem rather steep — other game lines don't force a derangement on a player who chooses to lower their starting Morality (Genius is not an official line and therefore is not being counted here) or, for that matter, any drawback except the loss of any benefits a starting Morality of 7 would have provided (extra starting fuel, supernatural abilities, lack of penalties, etc). We have here both the potential for multiple derangements (or a ''severe'' derangement — something the WoD corebook says is too problematic to give to a starting character as a ''Flaw,'' never mind as a punitive measure) and afflictions. In addition, the starting powers are somewhat lockstep; where other games have the starting requirement for power allocation simply be "at least one favored power" out of a group of three, we have things arranged such that one has to allocate two powers of three to a group of two.		I feel I should point out that our character creation rules seem rather steep — other game lines don't force a derangement on a player who chooses to lower their starting Morality (Genius is not an official line and therefore is not being counted here) or, for that matter, any drawback except the loss of any benefits a starting Morality of 7 would have provided (extra starting fuel, supernatural abilities, lack of penalties, etc). We have here both the potential for multiple derangements (or a ''severe'' derangement — something the WoD corebook says is too problematic to give to a starting character as a ''Flaw,'' never mind as a punitive measure) and afflictions. In addition, the starting powers are somewhat lockstep; where other games have the starting requirement for power allocation simply be "at least one favored power" out of a group of three, we have things arranged such that one has to allocate two powers of three to a group of two.

			== Third Thoughts ==

			The game is looking increasingly like a Frankensteinean mash-up of the various splats rather than anything original. To wit:

			1. Psychic powers, thralls and potent blood that gets more potent as one increases in power is well-represented in Vampire. (Ties to a Vice based on inborn splat are also explicitly illustrated in that game.)
			2. Shapeshifting into a monstrous form with an associated PTSD-like effect on onlookers has been done with Lunacy in Werewolf, which has actual mechanics for it that doesn't require an esoteric sub-power to thwart technology. (Also, the failure to make good on the "Werewolf's Paleolithic, Leviathan's Paleozoic!" line means the two are drawing from the exact same era, except that Werewolf's First Tongue can actually pass for a pre-Babylonian language.)
			3. A powerstat that represents greater insight into the nature of one's power and is increased by, among other things, Magic Archaeology, as well as a mental world with increasingly abstract layers sound an awful lot like Gnosis and the Astral Realms.
			4. Promethean did the monstrous mutant thing quite well already with Centimani and Pandoran Transmutations. Pandorans likewise pull off Typhons rather nicely with Titanic Form and Praecepitati.
			5. You're subsumed into a psychoactive realm and given over to your Vice when you hit Morality 0 in a certain otherworldly place. Are you a changeling turning into a True Fae or a leviathan turning into a Deep One?

	[More in this space as consolidation continues.]		[More in this space as consolidation continues.]

206.21.136.201: /* Second Thoughts */

2010-12-04T00:39:36Z

Second Thoughts

← Older revision		Revision as of 00:39, 4 December 2010
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	To expand upon the "environmental requirements" mentioned above, this should play into the rarity of Leviathans (and their non-aquatic cousins) and add to the out-of-the-way placement of high-Sheol Leviathans; the strictness of requirements should scale with Sheol and possibly bleed into the higher Depths as Sheol rises. (Another note: change all mentions of "Depth _ or lower" to "at least Depth _"; this is less confusing.) As an offhand concoction, I propose that Depth-bleedthrough occur at Sheol 6 and above (starting with Depth 5 at Sheol 6 and working up to Depth 1 at Sheol 10), requiring gradually less of the appropriate condition (so a Depth 1 Leviathan of sufficient power might only need to get their feet wet, while the same Leviathan would need to be immersed in water up to the waist at Depth 3 and up to the head at Depth 5). Alternately, have extra conditions for Apotheosis Form come into play at higher Sheol — this gets us the tree-people and the deep sea vent-worms with two or three extra requirements. The point of this is, Leviathans and their related cryptid-likes should be out of the way and hard to find in their monstrous forms; to wax Lovecraftean for a moment, the more powerful ones should feel Not Of This Earth — creatures who can't live in the light or on the land or around people. Heat, light, pressure and chemical setup seem like ideal starting points for these requirements. Possibly implement this in a manner similar to changeling frailties or vampiric bloodline weaknesses.		To expand upon the "environmental requirements" mentioned above, this should play into the rarity of Leviathans (and their non-aquatic cousins) and add to the out-of-the-way placement of high-Sheol Leviathans; the strictness of requirements should scale with Sheol and possibly bleed into the higher Depths as Sheol rises. (Another note: change all mentions of "Depth _ or lower" to "at least Depth _"; this is less confusing.) As an offhand concoction, I propose that Depth-bleedthrough occur at Sheol 6 and above (starting with Depth 5 at Sheol 6 and working up to Depth 1 at Sheol 10), requiring gradually less of the appropriate condition (so a Depth 1 Leviathan of sufficient power might only need to get their feet wet, while the same Leviathan would need to be immersed in water up to the waist at Depth 3 and up to the head at Depth 5). Alternately, have extra conditions for Apotheosis Form come into play at higher Sheol — this gets us the tree-people and the deep sea vent-worms with two or three extra requirements. The point of this is, Leviathans and their related cryptid-likes should be out of the way and hard to find in their monstrous forms; to wax Lovecraftean for a moment, the more powerful ones should feel Not Of This Earth — creatures who can't live in the light or on the land or around people. Heat, light, pressure and chemical setup seem like ideal starting points for these requirements. Possibly implement this in a manner similar to changeling frailties or vampiric bloodline weaknesses.

	Speaking of vampires: the bloodsuckers do a Damned good job of acting as [potentially aquatic] Eldritch Abominations — read Night Horrors: Immortal Sinners (check out the Tatzlwurm or Billy Reed for a look at what I mean) or the clanbooks for the Gangrel (Of Rose and Thorn allows for that lovely arboreal creepiness and the clan's deal in general makes them very well-suited to being dead bestial gods at higher Blood Potency) and the Nosferatu (pretty much the authority on how the Blood can physically change you ~~with age~~). Vampires don't need to breathe, can transform their bodies, and are very good at pulling the whole "get more alien with age" shtick.		Speaking of vampires: the bloodsuckers do a Damned good job of acting as [potentially aquatic] Eldritch Abominations — read Night Horrors: Immortal Sinners (check out the Tatzlwurm or Billy Reed for a look at what I mean) or the clanbooks for the Gangrel (Of Rose and Thorn allows for that lovely arboreal creepiness and the clan's deal in general makes them very well-suited to being dead bestial gods at higher Blood Potency) and the Nosferatu (pretty much the authority on how the Blood can physically change you). Vampires don't need to breathe, can transform their bodies, and are very good at pulling the whole "get more alien with age" shtick. They're dead and dreaming during the day, to boot.

	Because I will never shut up about the Size debate: the Giant Movie Monster is itself an Unbuilt Trope — watch ''The Beast From 20,000 Fathoms'' sometime. ''Giant things are not immune to bullets by sheer dint of their giantness.'' If a player wants to be able to pull a Godzilla or a Cloverfield, they ought to ''build for it.'' Four Ichor and a point of Willpower is not a "nuclear option"; plenty of the existing Depth 6 powers have that same cost sans Willpower and I don't think the Willpower point ups the ante all that much. Yes, getting from Depth 0 to Apotheosis costs six points of Ichor, but unless people are out to get you or you're particularly paranoid about getting put on a slab, there's no reason not to walk around in Depth 1, and Havoc rolls (''really'' need a new term for that, since it's already being double-used by Genius and Mage) are trivially easy to succeed on with increasing momentum. I realize people will want to "be the Kraken" and drag a freighter under once in a while, but odds are quite good that most of the game will be taking place inland; going for Tier 3 stuff like breaking an aircraft carrier in half is all well and good, but if we don't cover the street-level Tier 1 stuff first things will get, for lack of a better term, screwed up. Give A Mountain Walked some actual ''bite'' in terms of cost. It should not be so trivially easy to invoke at the level of "lol naval frigate." If nothing else, make the Size increase cost Ichor on a per-point basis. Given the rate of progression for Ichor based on Sheol, cost will work as a better limiting factor than a cap would.		Because I will never shut up about the Size debate: the Giant Movie Monster is itself an Unbuilt Trope — watch ''The Beast From 20,000 Fathoms'' sometime. ''Giant things are not immune to bullets by sheer dint of their giantness.'' If a player wants to be able to pull a Godzilla or a Cloverfield, they ought to ''build for it.'' Four Ichor and a point of Willpower is not a "nuclear option"; plenty of the existing Depth 6 powers have that same cost sans Willpower and I don't think the Willpower point ups the ante all that much. Yes, getting from Depth 0 to Apotheosis costs six points of Ichor, but unless people are out to get you or you're particularly paranoid about getting put on a slab, there's no reason not to walk around in Depth 1, and Havoc rolls (''really'' need a new term for that, since it's already being double-used by Genius and Mage) are trivially easy to succeed on with increasing momentum. I realize people will want to "be the Kraken" and drag a freighter under once in a while, but odds are quite good that most of the game will be taking place inland; going for Tier 3 stuff like breaking an aircraft carrier in half is all well and good, but if we don't cover the street-level Tier 1 stuff first things will get, for lack of a better term, screwed up. Give A Mountain Walked some actual ''bite'' in terms of cost. It should not be so trivially easy to invoke at the level of "lol naval frigate." If nothing else, make the Size increase cost Ichor on a per-point basis. Given the rate of progression for Ichor based on Sheol, cost will work as a better limiting factor than a cap would.

206.21.136.201: /* Second Thoughts */

2010-11-12T01:21:19Z

Second Thoughts

← Older revision		Revision as of 01:21, 12 November 2010
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	== Second Thoughts ==		== Second Thoughts ==

	In keeping with my earlier statement that having Leviathan as a general model for a shapeshifter splat, the main template should be as broadly applicable as possible. In this case, this means shapeshifting is limited to organic biological forms, typically inspired by something within the animal kingdom (though not necessarily). The connection with water, while useful, could be broadened to a more general connection with fluid media (anything that is easily changed or shifted, e.g. sand, clouds, and yes, water).		In keeping with my earlier statement that having Leviathan as a general model for a shapeshifter splat would be nice, the main template should be as broadly applicable as possible. In this case, this means shapeshifting is limited to organic biological forms, typically inspired by something within the animal kingdom (though not necessarily). The connection with water, while useful, could be broadened to a more general connection with fluid media (anything that is easily changed or shifted, e.g. sand, clouds, and yes, water).

	To expand upon the "environmental requirements" mentioned above, this should play into the rarity of Leviathans (and their non-aquatic cousins) and add to the out-of-the-way placement of high-Sheol Leviathans; the strictness of requirements should scale with Sheol and possibly bleed into the higher Depths as Sheol rises. (Another note: change all mentions of "Depth _ or lower" to "at least Depth _"; this is less confusing.) As an offhand concoction, I propose that Depth-bleedthrough occur at Sheol 6 and above (starting with Depth 5 at Sheol 6 and working up to Depth 1 at Sheol 10), requiring gradually less of the appropriate condition (so a Depth 1 Leviathan of sufficient power might only need to get their feet wet, while the same Leviathan would need to be immersed in water up to the waist at Depth 3 and up to the head at Depth 5). Alternately, have extra conditions for Apotheosis Form come into play at higher Sheol — this gets us the tree-people and the deep sea vent-worms with two or three extra requirements. The point of this is, Leviathans and their related cryptid-likes should be out of the way and hard to find in their monstrous forms; to wax Lovecraftean for a moment, the more powerful ones should feel Not Of This Earth — creatures who can't live in the light or on the land or around people. Heat, light, pressure and chemical setup seem like ideal starting points for these requirements. Possibly implement this in a manner similar to changeling frailties or vampiric bloodline weaknesses.		To expand upon the "environmental requirements" mentioned above, this should play into the rarity of Leviathans (and their non-aquatic cousins) and add to the out-of-the-way placement of high-Sheol Leviathans; the strictness of requirements should scale with Sheol and possibly bleed into the higher Depths as Sheol rises. (Another note: change all mentions of "Depth _ or lower" to "at least Depth _"; this is less confusing.) As an offhand concoction, I propose that Depth-bleedthrough occur at Sheol 6 and above (starting with Depth 5 at Sheol 6 and working up to Depth 1 at Sheol 10), requiring gradually less of the appropriate condition (so a Depth 1 Leviathan of sufficient power might only need to get their feet wet, while the same Leviathan would need to be immersed in water up to the waist at Depth 3 and up to the head at Depth 5). Alternately, have extra conditions for Apotheosis Form come into play at higher Sheol — this gets us the tree-people and the deep sea vent-worms with two or three extra requirements. The point of this is, Leviathans and their related cryptid-likes should be out of the way and hard to find in their monstrous forms; to wax Lovecraftean for a moment, the more powerful ones should feel Not Of This Earth — creatures who can't live in the light or on the land or around people. Heat, light, pressure and chemical setup seem like ideal starting points for these requirements. Possibly implement this in a manner similar to changeling frailties or vampiric bloodline weaknesses.

206.21.136.201: /* Bahamut1984 */

2010-11-12T01:18:16Z

Bahamut1984

← Older revision		Revision as of 01:18, 12 November 2010
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	1: Refusing to answer a question asked.		1: Refusing to answer a question asked.

	'''Harmonic Triangulation''' (O, Blood in the Water, requires Peer Through the Depths and Flesh of the Earth OOOO) At Depth 5 and below, Bahamut1984 may see through solid objects using the Peer Through the Depths Evolution as though they were one “category” less by spending a points of Ichor. So, by spending one point of Ichor, he can see unimpeded through an inch of heavy metal, a foot of metal, ten feet of stone, or twenty feet of porous barriers such as foliage per dot of Sheol he possesses. (He can also see through fifty feet of smoke per dot of Sheol.) Each additional point of Ichor shifts the effective category back by one, to a limit of fifty feet per dot of Sheol for any material.		'''Harmonic Triangulation''' (O, Blood in the Water, requires Peer Through the Depths and Flesh of the Earth OOOO) At Depth 5 and below, Bahamut1984 may see through solid objects using the Peer Through the Depths Evolution as though they were one “category” less by spending points of Ichor. So, by spending one point of Ichor, he can see unimpeded through an inch of heavy metal, a foot of metal, ten feet of stone, or twenty feet of porous barriers such as foliage per dot of Sheol he possesses. (He can also see through fifty feet of smoke per dot of Sheol.) Each additional point of Ichor shifts the effective category back by one, to a limit of fifty feet per dot of Sheol for any material.

	'''Tree of Knowledge''' (OOO, Everflowing Fetid Growth, requires Memories Before Time) At Depth 3 and below, Bahamut1984 can grant recipients Skills with the use of this Channel and concurrent additional Ichor costs of Memories Before Time.		'''Tree of Knowledge''' (OOO, Everflowing Fetid Growth, requires Memories Before Time) At Depth 3 and below, Bahamut1984 can grant recipients Skills with the use of this Channel and concurrent additional Ichor costs of Memories Before Time.
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	''He’s putting a lockdown on visitors. Something about not being able to keep up with all the questions. Can something like that really drive you crazy?''		''He’s putting a lockdown on visitors. Something about not being able to keep up with all the questions. Can something like that really drive you crazy?''


	= '''Alternative Suggestions''' =		= '''Alternative Suggestions''' =

Satchel: /* Second Thoughts */

2010-10-25T19:18:37Z

Second Thoughts

← Older revision		Revision as of 19:18, 25 October 2010
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	To expand upon the "environmental requirements" mentioned above, this should play into the rarity of Leviathans (and their non-aquatic cousins) and add to the out-of-the-way placement of high-Sheol Leviathans; the strictness of requirements should scale with Sheol and possibly bleed into the higher Depths as Sheol rises. (Another note: change all mentions of "Depth _ or lower" to "at least Depth _"; this is less confusing.) As an offhand concoction, I propose that Depth-bleedthrough occur at Sheol 6 and above (starting with Depth 5 at Sheol 6 and working up to Depth 1 at Sheol 10), requiring gradually less of the appropriate condition (so a Depth 1 Leviathan of sufficient power might only need to get their feet wet, while the same Leviathan would need to be immersed in water up to the waist at Depth 3 and up to the head at Depth 5). Alternately, have extra conditions for Apotheosis Form come into play at higher Sheol — this gets us the tree-people and the deep sea vent-worms with two or three extra requirements. The point of this is, Leviathans and their related cryptid-likes should be out of the way and hard to find in their monstrous forms; to wax Lovecraftean for a moment, the more powerful ones should feel Not Of This Earth — creatures who can't live in the light or on the land or around people. Heat, light, pressure and chemical setup seem like ideal starting points for these requirements. Possibly implement this in a manner similar to changeling frailties or vampiric bloodline weaknesses.		To expand upon the "environmental requirements" mentioned above, this should play into the rarity of Leviathans (and their non-aquatic cousins) and add to the out-of-the-way placement of high-Sheol Leviathans; the strictness of requirements should scale with Sheol and possibly bleed into the higher Depths as Sheol rises. (Another note: change all mentions of "Depth _ or lower" to "at least Depth _"; this is less confusing.) As an offhand concoction, I propose that Depth-bleedthrough occur at Sheol 6 and above (starting with Depth 5 at Sheol 6 and working up to Depth 1 at Sheol 10), requiring gradually less of the appropriate condition (so a Depth 1 Leviathan of sufficient power might only need to get their feet wet, while the same Leviathan would need to be immersed in water up to the waist at Depth 3 and up to the head at Depth 5). Alternately, have extra conditions for Apotheosis Form come into play at higher Sheol — this gets us the tree-people and the deep sea vent-worms with two or three extra requirements. The point of this is, Leviathans and their related cryptid-likes should be out of the way and hard to find in their monstrous forms; to wax Lovecraftean for a moment, the more powerful ones should feel Not Of This Earth — creatures who can't live in the light or on the land or around people. Heat, light, pressure and chemical setup seem like ideal starting points for these requirements. Possibly implement this in a manner similar to changeling frailties or vampiric bloodline weaknesses.

	Speaking of vampires: the bloodsuckers do a ~~damned~~ good job of acting as [potentially aquatic] Eldritch Abominations — read Night Horrors: Immortal Sinners (check out the Tatzlwurm or Billy Reed for a look at what I mean) or the clanbooks for the Gangrel (Of Rose and Thorn allows for that lovely arboreal creepiness and the clan's deal in general makes them very well-suited to being dead bestial gods at higher Blood Potency) and the Nosferatu (pretty much the authority on how the Blood can physically change you with age). Vampires don't need to breathe, can transform their bodies, and are very good at pulling the whole "get more alien with age" shtick.		Speaking of vampires: the bloodsuckers do a Damned good job of acting as [potentially aquatic] Eldritch Abominations — read Night Horrors: Immortal Sinners (check out the Tatzlwurm or Billy Reed for a look at what I mean) or the clanbooks for the Gangrel (Of Rose and Thorn allows for that lovely arboreal creepiness and the clan's deal in general makes them very well-suited to being dead bestial gods at higher Blood Potency) and the Nosferatu (pretty much the authority on how the Blood can physically change you with age). Vampires don't need to breathe, can transform their bodies, and are very good at pulling the whole "get more alien with age" shtick.

	Because I will never shut up about the Size debate: the Giant Movie Monster is itself an Unbuilt Trope — watch ''The Beast From 20,000 Fathoms'' sometime. ''Giant things are not immune to bullets by sheer dint of their giantness.'' If a player wants to be able to pull a Godzilla or a Cloverfield, they ought to ''build for it.'' Four Ichor and a point of Willpower is not a "nuclear option"; plenty of the existing Depth 6 powers have that same cost sans Willpower and I don't think the Willpower point ups the ante all that much. Yes, getting from Depth 0 to Apotheosis costs six points of Ichor, but unless people are out to get you or you're particularly paranoid about getting put on a slab, there's no reason not to walk around in Depth 1, and Havoc rolls (''really'' need a new term for that, since it's already being double-used by Genius and Mage) are trivially easy to succeed on with increasing momentum. I realize people will want to "be the Kraken" and drag a freighter under once in a while, but odds are quite good that most of the game will be taking place inland; going for Tier 3 stuff like breaking an aircraft carrier in half is all well and good, but if we don't cover the street-level Tier 1 stuff first things will get, for lack of a better term, screwed up. Give A Mountain Walked some actual ''bite'' in terms of cost. It should not be so trivially easy to invoke at the level of "lol naval frigate." If nothing else, make the Size increase cost Ichor on a per-point basis. Given the rate of progression for Ichor based on Sheol, cost will work as a better limiting factor than a cap would.		Because I will never shut up about the Size debate: the Giant Movie Monster is itself an Unbuilt Trope — watch ''The Beast From 20,000 Fathoms'' sometime. ''Giant things are not immune to bullets by sheer dint of their giantness.'' If a player wants to be able to pull a Godzilla or a Cloverfield, they ought to ''build for it.'' Four Ichor and a point of Willpower is not a "nuclear option"; plenty of the existing Depth 6 powers have that same cost sans Willpower and I don't think the Willpower point ups the ante all that much. Yes, getting from Depth 0 to Apotheosis costs six points of Ichor, but unless people are out to get you or you're particularly paranoid about getting put on a slab, there's no reason not to walk around in Depth 1, and Havoc rolls (''really'' need a new term for that, since it's already being double-used by Genius and Mage) are trivially easy to succeed on with increasing momentum. I realize people will want to "be the Kraken" and drag a freighter under once in a while, but odds are quite good that most of the game will be taking place inland; going for Tier 3 stuff like breaking an aircraft carrier in half is all well and good, but if we don't cover the street-level Tier 1 stuff first things will get, for lack of a better term, screwed up. Give A Mountain Walked some actual ''bite'' in terms of cost. It should not be so trivially easy to invoke at the level of "lol naval frigate." If nothing else, make the Size increase cost Ichor on a per-point basis. Given the rate of progression for Ichor based on Sheol, cost will work as a better limiting factor than a cap would.