Talk:TROS in the Hammer:Characters ThundersRumble - Revision history

Skalchemist: Replied to Justin

2006-09-08T21:31:26Z

Replied to Justin

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	: Hope this helps --[[User:Jman5000\|Jman5000]] 12:56, 8 September 2006 (PDT)		: Hope this helps --[[User:Jman5000\|Jman5000]] 12:56, 8 September 2006 (PDT)

			::Perfect. By the way, it is enough that Dawn's First Light is of Thunders own tribe for the love to be unconsummatable and hence illicit. Only the very largest tribes allow marriage within the tribe, and then only between clans, which are a kind of subtribe, not within clans. I'm going to say that in Thunders own tribe, it is accepted that young men and women in the tribe might develop crushes on each other (i.e. kissing cousins), but that as they become adults they will grow out of this. Certainly, if actual progeny resulted from such a relationship, it would cause an incredible scandal and probably result in the man being exiled from the tribe, the woman being severly punished, and the child being exchanged to another tribe. Thunders Rumble is old enough to know better, and as you say above, recognizes that nothing will ever come of his love. Her mother (I like the name Talk's to Lightning for her, but you are welcome to come up with a name you prefer), is the 2nd most powerful matriarch of the tribe. You specify that you are not blood related. If you meant by this "not a brother or sister of" then that is no problem. If you meant by this "relation so distant as to be strangers", thats a bit tough; all the women in a tribe are related to each other, so if you were born into this tribe, your mother and Dawn's were related somehow. If you want to not really share any genetic information, I suggest that while this is your tribe, you were actually a "swapped seed" between your tribe and your birth tribe. As I mentioned in the section of the People, this is a fairly common occurence were newborns are swapped between two tribes as a sign of alliance or as a debt repayment. You are treated as a full member of the tribe; no stigma at all is associated with your birth. In fact, you are sort of a living symbol of the alliance between your tribe and your birth tribe. Does that sound cool to you? In fact, I sort of like this idea a lot, because it means you may have a relationship with your birth mother and her tribe as well, although not as important as your relationship to your adoptive mother, aunts and uncles. This opens up another venue for important NPCs.

Jman5000 at 19:56, 8 September 2006

2006-09-08T19:56:19Z

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	* Something just occurred to me...maybe you are functionally tribeless, as your entire tribe was carted off into slavery. I'm going to add a bit about this new phenomenon on the wiki; prior to the Gezag almost everyone was a member of SOME tribe, but with the disruption that is currently occurring, it could be that some smaller tribes have essentially dissappeared, leaving so few members as to be dysfunctional.		* Something just occurred to me...maybe you are functionally tribeless, as your entire tribe was carted off into slavery. I'm going to add a bit about this new phenomenon on the wiki; prior to the Gezag almost everyone was a member of SOME tribe, but with the disruption that is currently occurring, it could be that some smaller tribes have essentially dissappeared, leaving so few members as to be dysfunctional.
	Think about these things. [[User:Skalchemist\|Skalchemist]] 11:49, 8 September 2006 (PDT)		Think about these things. [[User:Skalchemist\|Skalchemist]] 11:49, 8 September 2006 (PDT)

			: Thunder Rumber should be from the same tribe that Vic's character is from, but he might not know him at all - maybe he last saw him as a little child, or maybe he wasn't even born yet when the Gezag carted me off to fight in foreign wars... But I do want to be from the same tribe
			: The love interests name.. hmm, how about 'Dawns first light' as that was what glimmered through the tent during 'Dawns' birth... she is also from my tribe. I think your idea of her being the daughter of the shaman is a great idea. I'm thinking the love is either partially illicit (lower caste than Dawn thus the love being frowned upon, or I'm too old and gnarly and weathered to be of any physical interest, or the relationship between my father and her mother makes it too close (though we are not blood related). I do not expect the love to ever be reciprocated - my love for her is an allusion for the love I hold for the tribe. I'll do anything for her, and don't ever expect anything in return. it might be cool if she knows my feelings (those wiley women) and plays me like an instrament.

			: my minor ally is the tribe shaman (a woman) and mother to Dawns first light. she has aided me in the past when fleeing the Gezag and hiding from its representatives, and somewhat guides me in my destiny to unite the tribes and break free...

			: Hope this helps --[[User:Jman5000\|Jman5000]] 12:56, 8 September 2006 (PDT)

Skalchemist: altered questions to Justin a bit.

2006-09-08T18:52:36Z

altered questions to Justin a bit.

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	Some questions, based on the recent changes to the People I have posted.		Some questions, based on the recent changes to the People I have posted.
	* What kind of tribe is Thunder's Rumble from? What was their niche? What is its name? Is he the same tribe Vic's character is from (one assumes a woodsman/hunter tribe)?		* What kind of tribe is Thunder's Rumble from? What was their niche? What is its name? Is he the same tribe Vic's character is from (one assumes a woodsman/hunter tribe)?
	* What is the love interests name? Is she from your tribe ~~(in which case~~ the love ~~is illicit and perhaps impossible) or from another~~ tribe~~? If from another~~ tribe, is ~~she from~~ a husband ~~tribe (i.e~~. ~~one your tribe has a marriage relationship with) or not (also making the relationship less or more complicated)?~~		* What is the love interests name? Is she from your tribe? From what you said above, I'm guessing you want there to be at least a hint of illicitness about the love you feel for her; making her a member of your own tribe would do it, as would making her a member of a tribe that is not a "husband" to yours.
	* Your ally, I'm guessing, is one of the matriarchs of your own tribe. Or is she? Something just occurred to me...maybe you are functionally tribeless, as your entire tribe was carted off into slavery.		* Your ally, I'm guessing, is one of the matriarchs of your own tribe. Or is she?
			* Something just occurred to me...maybe you are functionally tribeless, as your entire tribe was carted off into slavery. I'm going to add a bit about this new phenomenon on the wiki; prior to the Gezag almost everyone was a member of SOME tribe, but with the disruption that is currently occurring, it could be that some smaller tribes have essentially dissappeared, leaving so few members as to be dysfunctional.
	Think about these things. [[User:Skalchemist\|Skalchemist]] 11:49, 8 September 2006 (PDT)		Think about these things. [[User:Skalchemist\|Skalchemist]] 11:49, 8 September 2006 (PDT)

Skalchemist: asked Justin some questions

2006-09-08T18:49:29Z

asked Justin some questions

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	----		----
	Jman5000 - Once you have the backstory right, copy and paste it to the main page. Probably not in the little box, not enough space; make a new section at the top or bottom.[[User:Skalchemist\|Skalchemist]] 10:20, 25 August 2006 (PDT)		Jman5000 - Once you have the backstory right, copy and paste it to the main page. Probably not in the little box, not enough space; make a new section at the top or bottom.[[User:Skalchemist\|Skalchemist]] 10:20, 25 August 2006 (PDT)
			----
			Some questions, based on the recent changes to the People I have posted.
			* What kind of tribe is Thunder's Rumble from? What was their niche? What is its name? Is he the same tribe Vic's character is from (one assumes a woodsman/hunter tribe)?
			* What is the love interests name? Is she from your tribe (in which case the love is illicit and perhaps impossible) or from another tribe? If from another tribe, is she from a husband tribe (i.e. one your tribe has a marriage relationship with) or not (also making the relationship less or more complicated)?
			* Your ally, I'm guessing, is one of the matriarchs of your own tribe. Or is she? Something just occurred to me...maybe you are functionally tribeless, as your entire tribe was carted off into slavery.
			Think about these things. [[User:Skalchemist\|Skalchemist]] 11:49, 8 September 2006 (PDT)

Silentdaikyu: Added comment about forging brands.

2006-08-29T03:52:08Z

Added comment about forging brands.

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	:::Makes sense that there would be at least SOME of the People in your unit. I want to keep the multi-ethnic feel to the employee troops, but if you want to have led JUST the People in a mutiny, thats fine by me and makes sense. Some others from other cultures could have come along for the ride, based on their trust in your leadership.[[User:Skalchemist\|Skalchemist]] 10:17, 25 August 2006 (PDT)		:::Makes sense that there would be at least SOME of the People in your unit. I want to keep the multi-ethnic feel to the employee troops, but if you want to have led JUST the People in a mutiny, thats fine by me and makes sense. Some others from other cultures could have come along for the ride, based on their trust in your leadership.[[User:Skalchemist\|Skalchemist]] 10:17, 25 August 2006 (PDT)
	*An interesting modification; you have the brand of an employee soldier, but not the brand of a PENSIONED or DISCHARGED employee soldier. Therefore, if you are ever captured and someone from the Authority gets a good look at your (name a body part), it will be obvious you are a deserter. You COULD forge the discharge brand, I suppose but I'm going to make you play that out and not let it be in the back story. :)		*An interesting modification; you have the brand of an employee soldier, but not the brand of a PENSIONED or DISCHARGED employee soldier. Therefore, if you are ever captured and someone from the Authority gets a good look at your (name a body part), it will be obvious you are a deserter. You COULD forge the discharge brand, I suppose but I'm going to make you play that out and not let it be in the back story. :)
			:::I was thinking about that myself, given that forgery is one of Peregrines best skills.:)[[User:Silentdaikyu\|Silentdaikyu]] 20:52, 28 August 2006 (PDT)
	:: I really like this, because branding connotates ownership, thus you think you are free, but they still own you, because they can brand you... neat! I say the brands should be around ones neck, as a sort of flesh necklace. each quadrant of ones neck has a signifigance, and it's outlawed to conceal one's branding --[[User:Jman5000\|Jman5000]] 09:59, 25 August 2006 (PDT)		:: I really like this, because branding connotates ownership, thus you think you are free, but they still own you, because they can brand you... neat! I say the brands should be around ones neck, as a sort of flesh necklace. each quadrant of ones neck has a signifigance, and it's outlawed to conceal one's branding --[[User:Jman5000\|Jman5000]] 09:59, 25 August 2006 (PDT)
	:::Done, exactly as you say it.[[User:Skalchemist\|Skalchemist]] 10:17, 25 August 2006 (PDT)		:::Done, exactly as you say it.[[User:Skalchemist\|Skalchemist]] 10:17, 25 August 2006 (PDT)

Silentdaikyu at 03:38, 29 August 2006

2006-08-29T03:38:09Z

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	rising quickly from squad leader, to platoon leader to company leader, rumours abounded that he was being groomed to become a possible district commander - possibly even the land where the people lived (though he never realized this promise would never be fulfilled, it just doesn't make business sense for a local commander to command a district. too much room for rebellion with that setup). all the soldiers serving under him loved him not because he was an easy commander, but because he was a fair commander, and was a superior tactician. You simply had a better chance to live when commanded by Thunder than with any other commander.		rising quickly from squad leader, to platoon leader to company leader, rumours abounded that he was being groomed to become a possible district commander - possibly even the land where the people lived (though he never realized this promise would never be fulfilled, it just doesn't make business sense for a local commander to command a district. too much room for rebellion with that setup). all the soldiers serving under him loved him not because he was an easy commander, but because he was a fair commander, and was a superior tactician. You simply had a better chance to live when commanded by Thunder than with any other commander.

	The Proverbial straw that broke the camels back came during the campaign to suppress the northern rebellion. Leading 500 men, Thunder was ordered to take a heavily fortified town at all cost, and then execute all women and children as retribution for an ambush on a pilgrim caravan that happened a fortnight earlier. rumours abounded that the ambush was staged, that neither pilgrim nor rebels were involved and that this was just a pretext to commit genocide on a national level. Tactically assessing the fortified town, Thunder also realized that 500 men, while theoretically sufficient to take the town, the cost to his own men was too high, estimated at 90% losses. Seeing that his men ~~emphasized~~ with these rebels, knowing that this "ambush" was just a pretext for legal genocide and disgusted in his leaderships lack of regard for his men’s welfare, Thunder decided at that point to desert en-mass with his men, lead them back to the land to be free. Knowing that he would put everyone in jeopardy with this plan, he asked his men if this was what they wanted. With a rousing cry, it was settled - free at last, but outlaw, deserter, and wanted.		The Proverbial straw that broke the camels back came during the campaign to suppress the northern rebellion. Leading 500 men, Thunder was ordered to take a heavily fortified town at all cost, and then execute all women and children as retribution for an ambush on a pilgrim caravan that happened a fortnight earlier. rumours abounded that the ambush was staged, that neither pilgrim nor rebels were involved and that this was just a pretext to commit genocide on a national level. Tactically assessing the fortified town, Thunder also realized that 500 men, while theoretically sufficient to take the town, the cost to his own men was too high, estimated at 90% losses. Seeing that his men empathized with these rebels, knowing that this "ambush" was just a pretext for legal genocide and disgusted in his leaderships lack of regard for his men’s welfare, Thunder decided at that point to desert en-mass with his men, lead them back to the land to be free. Knowing that he would put everyone in jeopardy with this plan, he asked his men if this was what they wanted. With a rousing cry, it was settled - free at last, but outlaw, deserter, and wanted.

	Quietly returning to his village, Thunder discovered that much had changed during his years away.		Quietly returning to his village, Thunder discovered that much had changed during his years away.

Skalchemist: added a minor horizontal rule

2006-08-25T17:20:33Z

added a minor horizontal rule

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	:: makes sense. I've modified the last couple of paragraphs slightly... more edits to come to incorporate the more corporate feel of the empire, and to slightly change the desertion. --[[User:Jman5000\|Jman5000]] 09:59, 25 August 2006 (PDT)		:: makes sense. I've modified the last couple of paragraphs slightly... more edits to come to incorporate the more corporate feel of the empire, and to slightly change the desertion. --[[User:Jman5000\|Jman5000]] 09:59, 25 August 2006 (PDT)
			----
	Jman5000 - Once you have the backstory right, copy and paste it to the main page. Probably not in the little box, not enough space; make a new section at the top or bottom.[[User:Skalchemist\|Skalchemist]] 10:20, 25 August 2006 (PDT)		Jman5000 - Once you have the backstory right, copy and paste it to the main page. Probably not in the little box, not enough space; make a new section at the top or bottom.[[User:Skalchemist\|Skalchemist]] 10:20, 25 August 2006 (PDT)

Skalchemist: added a comment regarding backstory location

2006-08-25T17:20:00Z

added a comment regarding backstory location

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	:: makes sense. I've modified the last couple of paragraphs slightly... more edits to come to incorporate the more corporate feel of the empire, and to slightly change the desertion. --[[User:Jman5000\|Jman5000]] 09:59, 25 August 2006 (PDT)		:: makes sense. I've modified the last couple of paragraphs slightly... more edits to come to incorporate the more corporate feel of the empire, and to slightly change the desertion. --[[User:Jman5000\|Jman5000]] 09:59, 25 August 2006 (PDT)

			Jman5000 - Once you have the backstory right, copy and paste it to the main page. Probably not in the little box, not enough space; make a new section at the top or bottom.[[User:Skalchemist\|Skalchemist]] 10:20, 25 August 2006 (PDT)

Skalchemist: Change

2006-08-25T17:17:48Z

Change

← Older revision		Revision as of 17:17, 25 August 2006
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	*An interesting modification; you have the brand of an employee soldier, but not the brand of a PENSIONED or DISCHARGED employee soldier. Therefore, if you are ever captured and someone from the Authority gets a good look at your (name a body part), it will be obvious you are a deserter. You COULD forge the discharge brand, I suppose but I'm going to make you play that out and not let it be in the back story. :)		*An interesting modification; you have the brand of an employee soldier, but not the brand of a PENSIONED or DISCHARGED employee soldier. Therefore, if you are ever captured and someone from the Authority gets a good look at your (name a body part), it will be obvious you are a deserter. You COULD forge the discharge brand, I suppose but I'm going to make you play that out and not let it be in the back story. :)
	:: I really like this, because branding connotates ownership, thus you think you are free, but they still own you, because they can brand you... neat! I say the brands should be around ones neck, as a sort of flesh necklace. each quadrant of ones neck has a signifigance, and it's outlawed to conceal one's branding --[[User:Jman5000\|Jman5000]] 09:59, 25 August 2006 (PDT)		:: I really like this, because branding connotates ownership, thus you think you are free, but they still own you, because they can brand you... neat! I say the brands should be around ones neck, as a sort of flesh necklace. each quadrant of ones neck has a signifigance, and it's outlawed to conceal one's branding --[[User:Jman5000\|Jman5000]] 09:59, 25 August 2006 (PDT)
	:::Done, exactly as you say it.		:::Done, exactly as you say it.[[User:Skalchemist\|Skalchemist]] 10:17, 25 August 2006 (PDT)
	*I'd like to put as much of the last two paragraphs as possible into the game instead of backstory. In other words, instead of saying "Thunder discovered much had changed", I think it would be fun to PLAY OUT Thunder discovering just how much has changed. Backstory isn't as much fun as play. Does that make sense?[[User:Skalchemist\|Skalchemist]] 09:27, 25 August 2006 (PDT)		*I'd like to put as much of the last two paragraphs as possible into the game instead of backstory. In other words, instead of saying "Thunder discovered much had changed", I think it would be fun to PLAY OUT Thunder discovering just how much has changed. Backstory isn't as much fun as play. Does that make sense?[[User:Skalchemist\|Skalchemist]] 09:27, 25 August 2006 (PDT)

	:: makes sense. I've modified the last couple of paragraphs slightly... more edits to come to incorporate the more corporate feel of the empire, and to slightly change the desertion. --[[User:Jman5000\|Jman5000]] 09:59, 25 August 2006 (PDT)		:: makes sense. I've modified the last couple of paragraphs slightly... more edits to come to incorporate the more corporate feel of the empire, and to slightly change the desertion. --[[User:Jman5000\|Jman5000]] 09:59, 25 August 2006 (PDT)

Skalchemist: Responded to Justins new comments

2006-08-25T17:17:10Z

Responded to Justins new comments

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	*I'm thinking the desertion en-masse is a bit much, given the mixture of cultures. The Authority does not encourage sympathy among its employee regiments. But more importantly, what happened to the other soldiers? I suggest the following alternative; faced with the possible destruction of his entire unit in the process of genocide, Thunder led a mutiny against the senior officers, with the intent of leading the men into the wilderness to the North of the Authority (perhaps eventually returning to his own lands). The mutiny was successful, briefly, but then the Authority moved in several Banner regiments, who crushed the mutiny (the Authority carefully makes sure its member troops are better equipped than the employees), and Thunder barely escaped with his own life.		*I'm thinking the desertion en-masse is a bit much, given the mixture of cultures. The Authority does not encourage sympathy among its employee regiments. But more importantly, what happened to the other soldiers? I suggest the following alternative; faced with the possible destruction of his entire unit in the process of genocide, Thunder led a mutiny against the senior officers, with the intent of leading the men into the wilderness to the North of the Authority (perhaps eventually returning to his own lands). The mutiny was successful, briefly, but then the Authority moved in several Banner regiments, who crushed the mutiny (the Authority carefully makes sure its member troops are better equipped than the employees), and Thunder barely escaped with his own life.
	:: I was sort of playing on the idea that I was commanded to lead a contingent of people from my land. my leadership meant that there were fewer problems with them following orders, and killing captains etc.. I didn't think that Thunder was leading a ragtag band of multi-ethnic soldiers but more like a unified group from the same region. Makes business sense - we know each others customs, can work together, and be more efficient that way, no communication issues etc... Don't mind if it's different, I'll just change things and have him desert/stage a rebellion against his commanding officers with most of his troup getting wiped out as a result. --[[User:Jman5000\|Jman5000]] 09:59, 25 August 2006 (PDT)		:: I was sort of playing on the idea that I was commanded to lead a contingent of people from my land. my leadership meant that there were fewer problems with them following orders, and killing captains etc.. I didn't think that Thunder was leading a ragtag band of multi-ethnic soldiers but more like a unified group from the same region. Makes business sense - we know each others customs, can work together, and be more efficient that way, no communication issues etc... Don't mind if it's different, I'll just change things and have him desert/stage a rebellion against his commanding officers with most of his troup getting wiped out as a result. --[[User:Jman5000\|Jman5000]] 09:59, 25 August 2006 (PDT)
			:::Makes sense that there would be at least SOME of the People in your unit. I want to keep the multi-ethnic feel to the employee troops, but if you want to have led JUST the People in a mutiny, thats fine by me and makes sense. Some others from other cultures could have come along for the ride, based on their trust in your leadership.[[User:Skalchemist\|Skalchemist]] 10:17, 25 August 2006 (PDT)
	*An interesting modification; you have the brand of an employee soldier, but not the brand of a PENSIONED or DISCHARGED employee soldier. Therefore, if you are ever captured and someone from the Authority gets a good look at your (name a body part), it will be obvious you are a deserter. You COULD forge the discharge brand, I suppose but I'm going to make you play that out and not let it be in the back story. :)		*An interesting modification; you have the brand of an employee soldier, but not the brand of a PENSIONED or DISCHARGED employee soldier. Therefore, if you are ever captured and someone from the Authority gets a good look at your (name a body part), it will be obvious you are a deserter. You COULD forge the discharge brand, I suppose but I'm going to make you play that out and not let it be in the back story. :)
	:: I really like this, because branding connotates ownership, thus you think you are free, but they still own you, because they can brand you... neat! I say the brands should be around ones neck, as a sort of flesh necklace. each quadrant of ones neck has a signifigance, and it's outlawed to conceal one's branding --[[User:Jman5000\|Jman5000]] 09:59, 25 August 2006 (PDT)		:: I really like this, because branding connotates ownership, thus you think you are free, but they still own you, because they can brand you... neat! I say the brands should be around ones neck, as a sort of flesh necklace. each quadrant of ones neck has a signifigance, and it's outlawed to conceal one's branding --[[User:Jman5000\|Jman5000]] 09:59, 25 August 2006 (PDT)
			:::Done, exactly as you say it.
	*I'd like to put as much of the last two paragraphs as possible into the game instead of backstory. In other words, instead of saying "Thunder discovered much had changed", I think it would be fun to PLAY OUT Thunder discovering just how much has changed. Backstory isn't as much fun as play. Does that make sense?[[User:Skalchemist\|Skalchemist]] 09:27, 25 August 2006 (PDT)		*I'd like to put as much of the last two paragraphs as possible into the game instead of backstory. In other words, instead of saying "Thunder discovered much had changed", I think it would be fun to PLAY OUT Thunder discovering just how much has changed. Backstory isn't as much fun as play. Does that make sense?[[User:Skalchemist\|Skalchemist]] 09:27, 25 August 2006 (PDT)

	:: makes sense. I've modified the last couple of paragraphs slightly... more edits to come to incorporate the more corporate feel of the empire, and to slightly change the desertion. --[[User:Jman5000\|Jman5000]] 09:59, 25 August 2006 (PDT)		:: makes sense. I've modified the last couple of paragraphs slightly... more edits to come to incorporate the more corporate feel of the empire, and to slightly change the desertion. --[[User:Jman5000\|Jman5000]] 09:59, 25 August 2006 (PDT)

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	:::Makes sense that there would be at least SOME of the People in your unit. I want to keep the multi-ethnic feel to the employee troops, but if you want to have led JUST the People in a mutiny, thats fine by me and makes sense. Some others from other cultures could have come along for the ride, based on their trust in your leadership.[[User:Skalchemist\|Skalchemist]] 10:17, 25 August 2006 (PDT)		:::Makes sense that there would be at least SOME of the People in your unit. I want to keep the multi-ethnic feel to the employee troops, but if you want to have led JUST the People in a mutiny, thats fine by me and makes sense. Some others from other cultures could have come along for the ride, based on their trust in your leadership.[[User:Skalchemist\|Skalchemist]] 10:17, 25 August 2006 (PDT)
	*An interesting modification; you have the brand of an employee soldier, but not the brand of a PENSIONED or DISCHARGED employee soldier. Therefore, if you are ever captured and someone from the Authority gets a good look at your (name a body part), it will be obvious you are a deserter. You COULD forge the discharge brand, I suppose but I'm going to make you play that out and not let it be in the back story. :)		*An interesting modification; you have the brand of an employee soldier, but not the brand of a PENSIONED or DISCHARGED employee soldier. Therefore, if you are ever captured and someone from the Authority gets a good look at your (name a body part), it will be obvious you are a deserter. You COULD forge the discharge brand, I suppose but I'm going to make you play that out and not let it be in the back story. :)
			:::I was thinking about that myself, given that forgery is one of Peregrines best skills.:)[[User:Silentdaikyu\|Silentdaikyu]] 20:52, 28 August 2006 (PDT)
	:: I really like this, because branding connotates ownership, thus you think you are free, but they still own you, because they can brand you... neat! I say the brands should be around ones neck, as a sort of flesh necklace. each quadrant of ones neck has a signifigance, and it's outlawed to conceal one's branding --[[User:Jman5000\|Jman5000]] 09:59, 25 August 2006 (PDT)		:: I really like this, because branding connotates ownership, thus you think you are free, but they still own you, because they can brand you... neat! I say the brands should be around ones neck, as a sort of flesh necklace. each quadrant of ones neck has a signifigance, and it's outlawed to conceal one's branding --[[User:Jman5000\|Jman5000]] 09:59, 25 August 2006 (PDT)
	:::Done, exactly as you say it.[[User:Skalchemist\|Skalchemist]] 10:17, 25 August 2006 (PDT)		:::Done, exactly as you say it.[[User:Skalchemist\|Skalchemist]] 10:17, 25 August 2006 (PDT)