TheStarsAreRight:CarlNote7a - Revision history

Redland Jack at 05:41, 7 March 2010

2010-03-07T05:41:37Z

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	“Fascinating!”		“Fascinating!”


			=='''Note'''==

			The conversation continues on, but this is all that was noted.

Redland Jack at 05:40, 7 March 2010

2010-03-07T05:40:12Z

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	“This is one I’ve seen on a lot of ikons, so I know what it means. ‘Iesus Christos’. Jesus Christ. It’s usually floating over the baby’s head, near a halo. Get the idea?”		“This is one I’ve seen on a lot of ikons, so I know what it means. ‘Iesus Christos’. Jesus Christ. It’s usually floating over the baby’s head, near a halo. Get the idea?”


			'''REDLAND JACK'''

			"Ah. Well, I do like puzzles, although I definitely have greater facility with numbers, letters, and words, than I do with symbols or images. Looks like this might be a little of the former and a little of the latter, so I'll see what I can do.



			"Are we just curious about the origins of the ikons or is there some advantage to be gained from the knowledge?"


			'''CARL'''

			“Possibly both; until we get there, we may not know. In any case, it’s another tool in our toolbox, and that’s always good. Personally, I would love to know why these ikons display such dramatic properties and others don’t, but that may not turn out to be relevant to the mission at hand. As far as that mission is concerned, the ikons are keys to get us inside of locked borders.



			“I anticipate, however, a rather interesting conversation with the owners, once we arrive.” He smiles.


			'''REDLAND JACK'''

			"I was under the impression that you could mimic the dramatic properties, is that not true? Or is it more to the point that you could mimic the properties, but the methods you would use are not the ones that are apparent in the 'true' ikons."



			'''CARL'''

			Carl pauses. “That’s an interesting question. I realize, now that you mention it, that I have never done a close examination of the deep inner structure of either of the two ikons. I don’t know how they do what they do.” He looks at Jack, thoughtful. “You’re right, however. I believe the Kings could, if needed, make something that behaves like the weeping Madonna ikon. I don’t think I could do it alone, at least not in any way that would ensure it came out like I wanted. But even if we could make such a thing – we haven’t done so.



			“There have been many things that have acquired wondrous behavior since the change in the weather began a few years ago. Most appear to be spontaneous. The ikon I have, however, was weeping before the change. I don’t know about Becker’s.”



			Carl raises his eyebrows. “Perhaps I am reluctant to dissect what appears to be a natural miracle. Hmm.”


			'''REDLAND JACK'''

			"Well, you know, anything I can do to destroy the sense of wonder and mystery in the world...



			"I recall you saying earlier that the Outsider 'magic' was of the same essential 'type' as what you employ. If these ikons are an entirely different phenomenon, that might be of considerable interest (as well as potentially making atheists like myself look foolish)."


			'''CARL'''

			“True – though the fact that a phenomenon is measurable doesn’t have to make it less wondrous.



			“I’m not sure it is correct or safe to say that Outsider magic is the same as ours. I can say that some Outsiders make use of the same basic energies as we can, at least when they’re here – but who is to say they aren’t using other forms elsewhere, or even in addition? Forms we cannot detect or measure? And sometimes what seems miraculous may not even be active magic – or even an action at all. For example, your Dark Pharaoh is said to be able to describe the past, or far-away events in the present, or even future happenings, with great accuracy sometimes. Some of the texts in our library imply that this is not because the Pharaoh can see the past and future as we think of seeing – but merely that It exists outside of time, dwelling at once in all times, past and present, and so merely reports what It sees during other extrusions into our world. D’you see?”


			'''REDLAND JACK'''

			"That the Dark Pharaoh can see into the past seems plausible. It seems strange, but I clearly don't understand the powers he possesses. However, even given what I've seen, I have a hard time believing that anyone (or anything) can see the future. I take these' views of possible futures' to be just (potentially sophisticated) projections of what the individual believes is likely to occur. Anything beyond that (while conceivably, I supppose, true), challenges my fundamental beliefs about the world so thoroughly that, even were I to be convinced that it was logically true, might be too much for me to 'believe,' thus pushing me into a crisis of rationality..."

			'''CARL'''

			“Ah!” Carl leans forward. “The engine we have, in Tibet, does exactly that. We speak of the ‘negotiated future’, we can look at trends – often quite detailed – based upon what we know to be true, what we believe to be true, and what we want to propose … but it is subject to change, and as a future draws nearer to the present, it becomes clearer and more immutable. That engine, amazing as it is, exists entirely within the world, and within Time.



			“Contrariwise, we have the case of the Pharaoh, in some form. Consider, if you will, our world as a closed environment. Even time is a part of that environment – another dimension, if you will, as Einstein might propose. Time being biased entropy-wise, only an entity existing entirely outside the environment might reasonably be able to lie along the timewise direction and see it all at once. It’s a bit mind-boggling, but makes sense if you think of it in a simplistic way: that Time itself is multi-dimensional, with alternate futures being in different futureward ‘directions’, and all possible versions existing at once somehow.” He blinks, smiling, and continues. “Consciousness and will – and perhaps it is only these – steer paths along and between these entropies – not creating futures so much as deciding on a membership. Do you see? I haven’t really thought this through so concretely before, but it makes a sort of sense – given the things that the Kings can do, especially the King of Fate….



			“In an environment like that, something large and Outside might ‘see’ all possible futures, but we limited mortals would still be free to choose and act … and the Pharaoh could give us visions of the future that were true, but still never came to be!



			“Fascinating!”

Redland Jack at 00:54, 5 March 2010

2010-03-05T00:54:48Z

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	"You know, as much as I want to get back to New York, it might be best if I didn't go alone. Something obviously went wrong for me last time I was there by myself. Perhaps the wisest course of action is to wait until the entire group is ready to make the trip. After all, waiting a little while (probably) won't hurt anything. I don't know ... I guess I'll have to think about it, even though the window is closing. I need to start making good decisions."		"You know, as much as I want to get back to New York, it might be best if I didn't go alone. Something obviously went wrong for me last time I was there by myself. Perhaps the wisest course of action is to wait until the entire group is ready to make the trip. After all, waiting a little while (probably) won't hurt anything. I don't know ... I guess I'll have to think about it, even though the window is closing. I need to start making good decisions."

			'''CARL'''

			“I know you want to go, Jack,” Carl replies, “and I’ve seen already that you really like to do things on your own. I’d just hate to have something – anything – happen to you when we’re already committed elsewhere. That’s when these things usually happen, don’t they? “ He shrugs.



			“So it’s not about good or bad decisions, just timing. Sticking to one’s guns, I believe the saying goes. We have Russia to plan for.



			“Speaking of which – do you know any foreign languages?”


			'''REDLAND JACK'''

			"Sadly for the current venture, I don't know any Russian. I mean, they do have some good probability theory guys there, but that hasn't proven to be a sufficient incentive to learn the language, since, if need be, I can just muddle through the math and infer the relevance.



			"Considering English as my home language, I would say that on the foreign language front I have:


			"Fluency/Near-fluency in German



			"Reading level comprehension in Greek and Latin.



			"Oh. I've also started to pick up some American ... by osmosis."


			'''CARL'''

			Carl laughs. “Touchee.



			“It’s good you have German, traveling in Europe. For Russia, French might possibly have been more useful, at least in and around Court, and English of course. But that’s only if we get to court. If we’re traveling in ecclesiastical circles, it’s harder to predict.



			“But mostly I asked just for the information. It’s always good to be able to understand the people around you, even – especially – if you’re not part of the active conversation. I had some Spanish and German in school, and in the past ten years have picked up quite a lot of French, as well as bits and pieces of Italian, Latin, Russian and Arabic.



			“None of which is going to help either of us if we’re out in the Hungarian countryside, or lost in Romania somewhere.” He smiles.


			'''REDLAND JACK'''

			"The German I picked up from living there.



			"I snagged some Greek because I wanted to read The Odyssey in its original language.



			"The Latin was a necessity, because it's hard to be truly pretentious if you don't drop into your conversation some random, unnecessary, Latin terms from time to time.



			"I'm undoubtedly a bit narcissistic, because when I'm outside the active flow of a conversation, I have a tendency to let my mind wander to something like the positive and negative aspects of the system of voting for politicians or somesuch.... Of course, given that we're going to be on a boat pretty soon, I won't need to worry about conversing too much, since fish are notoriously close-mouthed."


			'''CARL'''

			“I wouldn’t worry about that; you’ll have all of us to talk to after all.



			“Hey, you have Greek! Is it all Classical Greek, or are you able to read more recent stuff? Byzantine, say? That might be very handy if we’re talking to Cyrillic monks about 9th or 10th century ikons.”


			'''REDLAND JACK'''

			"Yeah, but unless you guys find things like, 'Ugghhhh' or 'Where's the bucket?' to be scintillating conversation...



			"Er, anyway, not to be too disparaging, but I don't think the Greeks have written anything in a couple thousand years that anyone would want to read. So, unfortunately, we may have to chalk that up to another not-so-useful skill."


			'''CARL'''

			‘Oh Jack You are disparaging, aren’t you? And you disparage yourself worst of all. There are quite a few important texts that exist only in Greek editions, which are quite relevant to us at the moment.



			“In any case, being able to read the markings on the ikons might just be a significant advantage. Have you ever looked at an ikon, either Greek or Russian? I’m going to go look for a book for you, if I can find one. They’re complex works, and understanding that complexity is a good thing.”



			'''REDLAND JACK'''

			"Of course I've looked at an ikon before ... that one earlier this morning ... er, that's about it ...



			"It won't shock you to learn that they were not in my usual areas of interest. I'd be happy to take a stab at it. Most of my reading in Greek has been plays, philosophy, and histories."


			'''CARL'''

			“All right.” Carl seems pleased. “I’ll look for something here in London then; and in any case there are some art plates at the Estate which I can show you. Really I don’t know much about it myself, but I have seen and read enough to know that both the writing and the symbolism are rich fields that tell quite a bit about the origins of the ikons and the people who made them.



			“Understand – these are paintings, right? They do have text on them sometimes, but it’s not sentences and paragraphs. A letter or two, to indicate a word or phrase –a sort of shorthand. And each one – and where it is placed – means something. Here.”



			Carl scribbles on a scrap of paper. It looks something like this:



			__ __

			* IC * XC *



			“This is one I’ve seen on a lot of ikons, so I know what it means. ‘Iesus Christos’. Jesus Christ. It’s usually floating over the baby’s head, near a halo. Get the idea?”

Redland Jack at 00:40, 27 February 2010

2010-02-27T00:40:14Z

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Redland Jack at 06:32, 16 February 2010

2010-02-16T06:32:01Z

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			* [[TheStarsAreRight:RedlandJack\|Return to Redland Jack's page]]

	=='''After the Meeting continued'''==		=='''After the Meeting continued'''==

Redland Jack at 06:31, 16 February 2010

2010-02-16T06:31:34Z

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	“Yes they do – but so far at least, almost everything I’ve had a chance to see used the same basic stuff.” He laughs once. “Of course, that isn’t to say there isn’t more out there. I’ve seen examples even here on Earth of effects that didn’t use any measurable amounts of the three forces directly. But if we must make assumptions, and we assume that if something is to work here, then it interacts with us using the forces that are the building-blocks here, well, that seems something that will be right most of the time.” He shrugs.		“Yes they do – but so far at least, almost everything I’ve had a chance to see used the same basic stuff.” He laughs once. “Of course, that isn’t to say there isn’t more out there. I’ve seen examples even here on Earth of effects that didn’t use any measurable amounts of the three forces directly. But if we must make assumptions, and we assume that if something is to work here, then it interacts with us using the forces that are the building-blocks here, well, that seems something that will be right most of the time.” He shrugs.

			=='''A New Topic'''==

	'''REDLAND JACK'''		'''REDLAND JACK'''

Redland Jack at 06:29, 16 February 2010

2010-02-16T06:29:04Z

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	==Outsider Stuff (Mostly Negotiation)==		=='''After the Meeting continued'''==

			=='''Outsider Stuff (Mostly Negotiation)'''==

	'''CARL'''		'''CARL'''

Redland Jack: Created page with '==Outsider Stuff (Mostly Negotiation)== '''CARL''' Carl remains silent for a few seconds, frowning inwardly. Then he stirs. “The knowledge exists,” he says, drawing the …'

2010-02-16T06:19:26Z

Created page with '==Outsider Stuff (Mostly Negotiation)== '''CARL''' Carl remains silent for a few seconds, frowning inwardly. Then he stirs. “The knowledge exists,” he says, drawing the …'

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