Talk:TROS in the Hammer:Setting Political

Please post any comments you might have here. Skalchemist 08:02, 23 August 2006 (PDT)

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Justin had a bunch of questions - here are the answers. 1) loyalty towards the tribe --Jman5000 13:48, 23 August 2006 (PDT)spirit? With 'living and breathing' spirits communicating to the tribes, I'm guessing some kind of loyalty will be required both towards our 'protectors and guides' of an equal level as towards the shaman and circle of leaders... When confronted with another spirit - Say Pete's Character - would there not be superstitious hostility towards it? Game wise, are we all ok with some level of interpersonal conflict that may arise from this situation? (I am ok with it... It's only a game after all, pretty sure you are, you narritivist freak! But is pete/vic ok with that?)

Each tribe has a tribe spirit? Thats fine with me, sort of a main totem/god for that tribe. Cool. Pete's character is NOT one of these, though; he is a personal servant type spirit. Chances are any one of the People would recognize Pete for what he is (unless he is disguised somehow). It would be wise to be suspicious of ANY spirit you do not know or who has not been contacted/anchored by a shaman you trust. I would say if there is NOT some interpersonal conflict on this issue, we aren't having fun. Skalchemist 10:42, 23 August 2006 (PDT)

Sorry, I had just assumed that all tribes would have their own totem, with their own spirit attached to each. Hence the huge affront caused when Vic stole the totem that housed Pete's Spirit. I suppose we don't have to play it with every tribe/clan having it's own protector spirit. It really doesn't matter all that much to me. --Jman5000 11:30, 23 August 2006 (PDT)

No sorry, I think it is a cool idea...lets use it, at least among the people. If and when the other tribe realizes Pete has been stolen, they will be pissed off, but not as in "They stole our god!" and more like "They stole one of our cool things!"Skalchemist 12:30, 23 August 2006 (PDT)

2) can we talk to our spirit guides, can we get our own spirit guides, will there be any real world tangible impact should a spirit guide get banished? Does the Tribe become unlucky for example?

If each tribe has its own totem/god spirit, then destroying the anchors to that powerful spirit would certainly deal a major blow to that spirit. I don't have the rules written yet for how a shaman deals with spirits, but any spirit powerful enough to serve as a totem/god is pretty darn hard to contact, and losing the ancestral anchors would be a big deal. As to game mechanical effects of a totem/god spirit for the tribe; probably macro things, like assistance with crops/hunting, assitance in battle, etc. Individual level game mechanical effects would be rare. As to getting your own spirit, well, Vic's character has one, so we know at least one method; theft. :) Skalchemist 10:42, 23 August 2006 (PDT)

As to talking with spirits...you can talk to any anchored, or embodied spirit that can speak a human language (generally any spirit that has at least three qualities might be communicative). In the case of embodied spirits, you just talk to their body, no matter how strange it may be. In the case of anchored spirits, you talk to them through their anchors; the exact method will vary depending on the form of the anchor. In the case of contacted spirits, only a shaman can speak with them. Notional spirits are, well, notional, and can't be communicated with at all. I'll add this stuff to the actual page. Skalchemist 10:46, 23 August 2006 (PDT)

3) there's a 4th option for the destiny of the people. Much like how the Mongols managed to insert themselves into Chinese culture and basically start a dynasty, the same 'could' happen with the people. Take over Empire 1, supplant the existing leadership with leadership from the people etc. etc... :)

Sounds good to me. Skalchemist 10:42, 23 August 2006 (PDT)

4) if the land is rich in minerals, wouldn't empire 1 just have 'assimilated' us, taken over the land for themselves, and pushed the people onto reservations for example...

Empire 1 finds it much easier to make one tribe responsible (and paying them with favours and other stuff) for getting the metal delivered on time, stationing a few regiments of troops near the mines, and just generally telling the People "as long as the iron keeps flowing, we'll leave you alone, but miss one shipment and will slaughter a village or two". Empire 1 is not an empire of colonists; they have no desire to live outside their own lands. They just want other peoples stuff to pad their own nests, and will take whatever steps are necessary to keep the stuff flowing. Skalchemist 10:42, 23 August 2006 (PDT)

5) will there be monsters?

If by monsters you mean things like beholders, ogres, etc., then probably not. If by monsters you mean animals that are very different from current Earth animals, I would say probably. If you mean by monsters strange spirit creatures (like Pete's character) under the control of humans, then almost certainly. Skalchemist 10:42, 23 August 2006 (PDT)

With monsters, I wasn't thinking D&D traditional monsters - more, evil spirits, evil shamans and their summonings, possibly 'warped' animals from whatever calamity happened. Thinking more one off horror type creatures than traditional monsters with ecology etc. --Jman5000 11:30, 23 August 2006 (PDT)

Those kinds of monsters...oh yeah baby. You better believe it. Skalchemist 12:30, 23 August 2006 (PDT)

groovy, ok then, we've got a mix of Cthulu vs. Sword and Sorcery... I like it!!! [grin]. Honestly though, as much as Fantasy feel, I think I'd prefer for a more humanistic kind of game. The fantastic should be VERY Fantastic, WTF??? kind of moments. Nothing IMO saps tension away when your meta knowledge tells you exactly what you are facing... --Jman5000 13:40, 23 August 2006 (PDT)

Agreed, I will try to make the fantastic, fantastic. It may be slight more common then you were thinking, but it won't distract from the humanistic nature of the game; the game will still be about people and what they do.Skalchemist 14:01, 23 August 2006 (PDT)

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new question - and this is something which I am thinking about based on another game that I am playing, in that the story is very much driven by a few certain characters - what happens when those characters are no longer part of the game (dead, left the game etc...)??? for the other game, a bunch of "real world" people are swept into another land, facing fantastic situations. the story, the plot, the drives are all very strongly tied to these few people swept into this land.. In my opinion, once all these original characters are gone - the story must end, because there is no longer an incentive or reason to continue looking for a way home (if that was the meta plot). Anyway, a long way of asking.... In Tros or other strongly narritivistic games and trying to create a campaign... what happens when the protagonists die or leave? How can continuinity continue if a major plot line all of a sudden stops? Uniting the tribes may be my goal, and may be a really cool story line to work on and to role play against, but as soon as my character dies, I'm not sure if that would continue being interesting... anyway, just musing outloud here... --Jman5000 13:48, 23 August 2006 (PDT)

Good question. My feeling is that if one or more of the main protagonists (i.e. the characters we start with) dies, then the story will either change or end. No way around it. I won't try to push it one way or the other. Its one reason why I'm frankly glad we DIDN'T go with the 'stranger in a strange land' thing; TROS is too fatal, conceivably, and the concept needs a rules set that keeps the protagonists alive (regardless of what other horrible stuff might happen to them). That being said, death is not a guaranteed thing in this game; if faced with very deadly opposition (i.e. you are outnumbered in almost any fashion, people have the drop on you with missle weapons, etc.), you can always run away, surrender, or try to talk your way out. Remember this is NOT a cinematic/heroic game, where the characters are absurdly resilient and insanely foolhardy. Those are not survival traits in TROS. Surrender, run away, or talk; don't forget those words. I promise you that if you surrender, the game will not get boring; in fact I promise oodles of interesting (albeit terrifying) stuff will happen if you surrender. MWAHAHAHAHAAHA!!! Skalchemist 14:01, 23 August 2006 (PDT)

may I make a suggestion? It's a little bit railroady, but might work for our campaign. At least for the first little while, if any character dies, can we create new characters at least from the same tribe/region? This should *help* in keeping the story going while still giving you total options on what your characteristics are... once we get a feel for the ebb and flow of a TRoS game, we can then expand the characters more and bring in different people from different regions. Anyway, just a though to possibly make things in the beginnins easier --Jman5000 08:13, 24 August 2006 (PDT)

I will accept your suggestion and modify slighty...new characters MUST FIT INTO THE CURRENT STORY and its current direction somehow. Same tribe/region may not be necessary for that criteria to be met.Skalchemist 08:36, 24 August 2006 (PDT)

works for me.--Jman5000 09:07, 24 August 2006 (PDT)

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this thread has to do with equipment and relative technology levels. you mentioned that there is a reinnance feel to the Empire, but will that also translate to equipment and weapons? Are we hunter gathers, spears, bows, single edged swords, or more sophisticated, with barding for horses etc?

Economically, do the People trade with currency, or barter?

Geopolitically, are the people free to move about the empire, or are they classed as 'non citizins' (like the early Gauls in the Roman Empire, or the Egyptians etc...)?

p.s. I'm liking this wiki... nice way to flow things together...

--Jman5000 09:07, 24 August 2006 (PDT)

I'm adding a pile of stuff to the description of Empire 1 (now called the Niarch Trade Authority). Here are the simple answers - a) the Trade Authority has an early rennaissance level of technology. The People have an early to middle Medieval level of technology on their own (think Vikings), although better equipment can be had, particularly by theft from representatives of the Trade Authority. Some tribes of the People (not yours) are known particularly for their fine metal work, and jewelry is a common tribute item to the Authority. As to barding for horses...who said people ride horses? :) Right now, I'm leaning towards people riding various kinds of ultra large mutated dogs, or maybe pigs, or maybe large flightless birds like ostriches, or maybe all of the above! Either way, the People are not know particularly for their riding abilities; once I start talking about geography, you will see that the area the people live in is much easier to get around in by foot or by water. Economically, the People use a combination of barter and gold/silver "coinage" (which actually takes the form of various sizes and weights of beads of precious metal that can be knotted or strung together in lieu of a purse.) But in general all of the People are fairly poor; the tribute the Authority exacts prevents a lot of economic development. As to "citizenship", membership is the equivalent in the Authority, and members do have a lot of rights and priviledges. The Authority does not particularly restrict movement by the People at this time, although during periods of unrest they may require various passes etc. to move freely. Employees of the Company have more priviledges than non-Employees, and Property (i.e. slaves) have the least priviledges of all.Skalchemist 11:29, 24 August 2006 (PDT)

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I assume there is a language for The People, a language for The Trade Authority and a language for The Legion. Which of these languages would we have access to? Are there others that we should be aware of? Silentdaikyu 21:13, 24 August 2006 (PDT)