Editing TheStarsAreRight:CarlNote7a (section)

=='''Outsider Stuff (Mostly Negotiation)'''==

'''CARL'''

Carl remains silent for a few seconds, frowning inwardly.  Then he stirs.
 
“The knowledge exists,” he says, drawing the syllables out slowly.  “At least it used to.”
 
He goes quiet again, before holding up one hand and counting on his fingers.
 
“The place of negotiation exists.  I know where it is, both Inside and Outside.
“The training the negotiators received is probably gone, but some legacy of that process remains.  I know who and where.
“ I can … the King of Life at least, has the ability to establish the level of understanding … or at least to help find the mediator.  And,” he looks up with wide eyes, “I believe I know how the gap can be bridged.” 
 
Carl stares at Jack for a moment.  He looks startled, then grins.
 
“Jack, you may be the right man for this after all!  
 
“Of course, negotiating with one Outsider doesn’t do anything about the rest.  The plan doesn’t change; we must defend the world.  But the prospect of information, even of … joint ventures … is appealing, isn’t it?    Not an alternate course, but a supplemental one. 
 
“Perhaps.”
 
He sighs.

'''REDLAND'''

"As Mr. Pallucelli said, negotiating from a position of strength is better than being a clear inferior. I think that negotiating from a position of too much strength can degrade into coercion, but I scarcely think we need to worry about that in regards to the Outsiders. Property is much more secure when backed up not just by 'rights', but by an ability to defend these rights. As such, I'm all for continuing to defend the world.
 
"But yes, if we had a place to talk, coupled with an ability to communicate and some understanding of the other party, then I'd say we're in business. Information, joint ventures, trade, heck, even cultural exchanges ... well, maybe the last is going too far....
 
"What's your plan?"

'''CARL'''

Carl raises his eyebrows.  “Cultural exchange?  Really?”  He smirks.
 
“All right.  Cannot call it a plan yet, but we do have some pieces.
 
“One.  There is a chamber in the South American sanctuary designed to facilitate communication between the King’s negotiator and the Outside.  A safe spot, if you will, where the Outside can come in without running the risk of the Outsider breaking free and doing mischief.  Fate’s Tower, in Spain, has a chamber with some of the same qualities but I don’t believe it is as well made.
 
“Two.  Do you recall Erich von Drakheim?  He was travelling with me when you and I first met.  Erich’s family are descendants of the old negotiators.  They have a lot of half-forgotten lore in their estate that may contain useful aides to the process.
 
“Three.  I myself know how to reach through to the Outside in a fashion that allows for contact and exchange; the King of Life at least also has … “ he fumbles a bit, “is able to perceive … circles of common basis … and can choose and reach out to those Others which *have* enough commonality to make mutual negotiation possible.   I’ve done this by myself – it was dangerous at the time, but I learned from it.
 
“Four.  The King’s General has a gift – a tactical perception – which allows him to evaluate and place the right people in the right places on the field to maximize effect.  This gift works in synergy with the King, and both the King’s and the General’s gifts are expanded when they work together.  I may be reaching on this one, but it seems to me that that tactical gift has a useful place at the negotiating table as well as the battlefield.  My own General is in China with the King of Fate, and he’s needed there … but we do have Henrik, who might be persuaded to accept the task.
 
“So we put these things together.  My ability to reach and to filter is very risky by itself, but when performed in a place designed for safety, that risk is less.  The Drakheim legacy may teach us some of the customs and protocols of the work.  The King’s General gives us better understanding of the stakes and the players, which strengthens our position at the table.
 
“So.  To make this possible we need to scour Drakheim, re-activate the closed Sanctuaries, bring a General together to train with the King, and anoint a negotiator to the task, backed by all the rest.
 
“I see beyond this too, Jack; I can conceive of this as precedent not only for contact with Outside, but as the basis for a larger sort of court – where the Kings and the Principles stand together to negotiate and establish boundaries  of safety and influence for each other and for the world.
 
“Do you see?”

'''REDLAND'''

"This South American sanctuary sound far more appealing than the one in Spain. I've only met the King of Fate briefly during the 'meeting of the Kings', but of all of the shady characters I have encountered in my recent travels, he is the one I trust the least."
 
Jack laughs, "Of course I remember Erich von Drakheim ... he clunked Auda in the head with a big stick. Yeah, he's alright by me.
 
"How many people can be in one of these chambers at the same time? If we could put together a diverse group, we might have a better chance of successful communication. Perhaps there is no need if you and Henrik can identify the right person, but more people will give us a little room for error, perhaps."
 
He thinks for a moment.
 
"This sounds like a fine idea to me. However, it does sound like it will take some time and resources. I wonder if we'll ever be able to implement it."

'''CARL'''

”Everything we need to do takes time,” Carl sighs.  “We’ll manage.  And I like the notion that while the right hand trains for war, the left hand trains for, well, not peace exactly, but an alternative to fighting.
 
“I do think you may have misunderstood me in one particular, however.  Granted that the General’s gift has been to optimize men on the battlefield – what I had in mind was not to use the General to find the right negotiator – but to use those unique insights to gauge the ebb and flow of interest and perceived value during negotiation.  I do not know if it can be used in that way – but it behooves us to find out.”

'''REDLAND'''

"Ah. Okay. So it would make sense to cram together as many people into the room to attempt to understand what is happening, while the General helps with analysis.
 
"Also, we could try to start with a minor exchange and attempt to build mutual trust at low risk.
 
"One big problem we have, is that the right and left hand are comprised of the same people. We're really more of a one-armed man... Hmmm. I think I should have just abandoned that analogy..."
 
Redland pauses for a moment.
 
"Of course, this is still pure negotiation. I'd like to continue my efforts at communication, although I understand that this is something you (and others) have identified as either infeasible or undesirable, so it's more of a personal effort, as opposed to a team plan."

'''CARL'''

“I understand.”  Carl nods.  “And we also need to figure out what we want – and what we can possibly offer for it.   But --
 
“You already have communication, don’t you?  With the Pharaoh?  Do you expect to get something clearer or more useful with another one?

'''REDLAND'''

"Sort of. We don't shoot the breeze all that often, but, yeah, we can communicate pretty easily in (what appears to be) English. It is my understanding, though, that he is unusual in this. I'd be happy enough to run communications through him, but I don't think anyone else I know would find that to be a desirable situation. Also, I hate to impose on people, even a guy who is actually dozens of guys at the same time. Anyhow, getting more viewpoints would be good. After all, the Dark Pharaoh could be the equivalent of a continental philosopher, while what I need to find is Outsider Bentham... 
 
"One (of many) thing(s) I don't understand, is how the Outsiders communicate with each other. If I were to learn one version of Outsider-ese, could I then communicate with a whole stack of different people? I mean, I probably don't have it in me to learn Outsider French, Outsider Russian, etc., but if I could get enough value out learning one of these (if it's even remotely possible), it'd be better than having to have the Dark Pharaoh translate everything for me. Of course, one thing I could probably do, is to bargain with the Pharaoh, and see if he'd free up some time from one of his incarnations to teach me. Hmmmm. What would you think about that?"

'''CARL'''

“They don’t speak, Jack.  Or more precisely, they don’t have to.”
 
Carl reaches into his pocket, pulls out a couple of coins, selects a shilling, ponders it a moment, closes his eyes and closes his fingers over it, seemingly thinking hard for about ten seconds.
 
Opening his eyes again, he offers the coin to Jack.
 
“Here,” he says.  “Listen to it for a little while.”

'''CARL'''

The coin, an older one is still pocket-warm; George V’s familiar bearded profile staring sideways into eternity.   You wait, relaxing and clearing your mind as Rebecca taught you.
 
Nothing comes out of the coin, not really; rather there is a sense of attention splitting, of being caught up in a memory.   It is not sight, not hearing, more a sort of body-memory, knowledge without interpretation that simply settles into you without filtering through the senses.  Not crisp, more like something vaguely recalled from long ago.
 
You recall a place that has no directions, no up or down or fore or aft, but simply is, a place of infinite clarity and vital motion, but no details; and in that place you are not alone.  Nearby, in some indefinable way, are many others.  They have no size, but they are huge, incomprehensible and complex in ways you do not understand, and they constantly change.  You notice that some parts are more distinct than others, and you know without knowing how you know, that this was important, without recalling why.  Most are so different that they cannot even be comprehended, but some – a few – have a few sharp-edged nodules of something comprehensible in the midst of luminous incoherence.
 
You recall one that stands out more than the rest, and you struggle vaguely to change yourself to attract its attention.  It does not appear to notice, but nearby others do, unfolding their attentions and becoming brighter and more dangerous, the mere pressure of their regard terrifying in its power.
 
You recall pushing something outward at the chosen one, some sort of important truth; it unfolds to you, presents a bright buffeting truth of its own, shock of alien knowledge that fills you inside.  You reply, and it does too, but the meaning is lost; only the wrenching, altering nature of immediate, unfiltered knowledge remains.  That and the power of its regard.
 
You recall the other withdrawing from you, turning away into the crystal distance, and you fled, fled back to smallness and certainty and the waking world.

'''REDLAND'''

[This is neither here nor there, but I was wondering if something like the New Deal has happened in this timeline. Since there's a different president, I figured there may not have been the 'stitch in time' and whatnot.]
 
Redland doesn't seem as freaked out by what has happened as one might expect (it's been a long time since he saw his name drawn in the air, even if he doesn't recall most of it). He does seem a little taken aback, though, and he pauses to clear his thoughts.
 
"Yikes. Is that the best we can do? I guess I can see why you've been so negative about the prospects of negotiating. We'd have to be pretty desperate to try to bargain in that type of enviroment. Are you sure that you're opposed to bargaining through an intermediary we can (somewhat) comprehend? I would think that would be the way to go ... either that, or I ... we ... need to figure out some way to bridge the gap. Otherwise it seems like we'd be rolling the dice ... and weighted dice at that."

'''CARL'''

[ New Deal?  Not that I'm aware; too early yet.  President Curtis is very different from Hoover, and works very differently; he's more popular than Hoover was.   Also, the Crash happened later, and hit harder in the USA; the Dustbowl, however, hasn't hit yet, so we ain't seen the worst of things....  I'll be interested to see what happens this November, which is when Roosevelt was elected in the real world timeline.  That's where the New Deal Coalition started as I recall. ]


"Is that the best?  Depends upon what you think you just witnessed.  I have no idea how much of what I tried to put in there you were able to experience.   What did you see?"


<assuming you explain in some brief fashion what you got out of that.>


Carl sighs.   "Well then.   No, I suppose that's not the best we can do.  That was my own memory, of course; the first time I tried to interact with them.   And the only time so far.


"What you didn't get, I suppose, is what we talked about."  He shrugs.  "Talked, yes.  In a way.  And I learned a lot."  he leans forward.


"The environment -- it makes a lot more sense when one is there.   Things are malleable in ways we're not used to -- but I, at least, was able to see that; to search the nearby Ones for One that could understand me, with which there was enough in common for useful contact.   Others, well, they're so different that they simply don't care.  About us, about the world, any of it.  It's the ones we can se, can reach, that are both the most threat to us -- and the most reachable.


"So I found one.  I, um, twisted things, until we were similar enough to contact.  And then I called to it.   Sent it a Word, which it perceived.   It turned too; sent a part of itself over toward me, a part that was chosen to be harmonious with what I was.  You see, they're a lot more accustomed to this sort of thing than we are.


"Well, it looked at my Word, then at me -- and it sent me a question, which was, more or less, "What are YOU doing here by yourself?  Where is your negotiator?"  There were a lot more pieces to it, which I understood only poorly, but that was the gist.  It was reluctant to talk with me.  I might even say disturbed at the notion.  It left soon after that.


"Another thing you need to understand -- is that the things you share are true.   Truths.  In that vocabulary, you can withhold information, but you literally cannot lie.


"But I learned from it.  And we have the means to learn more, and machinery, if you will, to help make the communication easier.  I haven't given up.   


"This is what I had in mind, when I asked you if you wanted to be a negotiator."

'''REDLAND'''

[Ah. Okay. I vaguely recalled that the timeline was 'accelerated' in the game, but that may just be with the Germans.]

"So you say that they are more accustomed to this than we are. I wonder why that would be. It seems like that we might be able to infer some important information from that, though nothing's coming to me at the moment.

 

"It does mean that interacting with them will be, in some sense, more difficult. Whoever we deal with will possess a large, relative advantage. If this person wants to have repeat dealings, that wouldn't be a big problem, but if the Outsider we're dealing with is a 'fly by night', then we could give something up and come away with nothing.

 

"On the other hand, if we can learn more, well, why not? Perhaps we can get to a point where dealing becomes a bit less risky."

'''CARL'''

[ The Germany timeline is accelerated.  The rest of the world, so far as I can make out, is just .. different. ]

 

Carl nods. 

 

“There are other ways of interacting with them, of course.  Some of them you’ve seen, or heard of; the more typical goetic methods.  Others are more convenient for us, in some ways, in that they put all the strangeness behind symbolic imagery.  I suppose the Dark Pharaoh is one such, though we have ways of taking things to Those Outside also.   I favor the means I showed you because, there, the strangeness is obvious; otherwise it is easy to forget that what you are interacting with – and the place in which you are interacting – are artificial facades.  Masks, if you will.  And that you cannot tell anything of the Other’s true wishes and values from the mask.”

'''REDLAND'''

"The 'masks' work both ways, though, right? It is possible that it'd be better to be in an environment where both parties can 'lie' to each other on an equal basis than that we are in a 'truth-telling' environment where the other side has much more experience at withholding and ... misrepresenting."

'''CARL'''

“Hmm.”  Carl ponders this.  “Perhaps. I guess I shouldn’t let my preference for the truth cause me to reject lying out of hand.   It all comes down to being in a position of strength, doesn’t it?  Knowing what you have, as well as what you want, makes all the difference.”

'''REDLAND'''

"I think it depends on the Outsider we deal with. If he (I just feel weird calling them 'it') is a fair dealer, we'd be best served to be completely straightforward and deal with him fairly and honestly. However, you've indicated before that the Outsiders are more like making a wish with a djinn or making a deal with the Devil, with the offending party always seeking to not just turn things to their advantage, but to twist things to your disadvantage. If this is an accurate assessment, we'd be fools to behave 'honorably'."

'''CARL'''

“That’s what I was taught, and it’s certainly the way the Pharaoh tends to work.  There are even those who say that the One whose mask is the Dark Pharaoh *is* Satan – or at least that Satan is an interpretation of him – but I doubt that one can treat all the Outsiders the same.  They’re just too different – from us and from each other – to really know.   Given the immense power they have, and the weakness and ignorance of our position, it has seemed prudent to assume the worst.”  He cocks an eyebrow at Jack.

'''REDLAND'''

"Hey. That comment seemed pointed." Redland laughs. "Just as you have a default position of telling the truth, I guess I have a default position of trusting everyone."

 

He pauses for a second.

 

"I will concede that it is, perhaps, not the plan of wisdom and certainly leaves me open to abuse."

 

He pauses again.

 

"I suppose I've always had to learn things the hard way."

 

Jack shakes his head, as if in negation.

 

"Anyhow, insofar as negotiation is concerned, I guess the task is to locate a useful, trustworthy Outsider and talk to him your way and/or locate a useful Outsider and talk to him. Either way, we'd be well served to learn more about motivations and communication."

'''CARL'''

"I agree." Carl nods, musing.  "The, ah, 'One God' plan had that advantage; the Unity was, in a sense, *our* Outsider, who could be expected to have the world's best interests at heart."