Editing RPG System Symmetries

Jump to: navigation, search

Warning: You are not logged in. Your IP address will be publicly visible if you make any edits. If you log in or create an account, your edits will be attributed to your username, along with other benefits.

The edit can be undone. Please check the comparison below to verify that this is what you want to do, and then save the changes below to finish undoing the edit.
Latest revision Your text
Line 14: Line 14:
  
 
===Relative Size===
 
===Relative Size===
Systems should work the same if everything were shrunk or expanded uniformly. This should apply without having to change the absolute reference of the size scale. That is, if everything were shrunk by some percentage, you shouldn't have to redefine an inch just to make the system work. This doesn't mean that other absolute values related to size wouldn't change, but that all the rules still work the same just with the new stats.  
+
Systems should work the same if everything were shrunk or expanded uniformly. This should apply without having to change the absolute reference of the size scale. That is, if everything were shrunk by some percentage, you shouldn't have to redefine an inch just to make the system work.
  
The distinction between the rules changing and the stats changing isn't entirely clear. Sometimes the rules may be consistant mechanically, yet fail logically. An example of this would be in GURPS (at least with RAW, there are official-unofficial addenda for a few of these). Two ants would have a large, negative size modifier, which would apply as a penalty on their chance to hit each other. This means that the two basically have no chance to hit each other.
+
I don't know of any system that fully exhibits this symmetry. GURPS tries, but in some places the asymmetries cause strange problems. For example, two ants have almost no chance of hitting each other. This is easily fixed by refering to relative size instead of absolute, but that's only one of the problems (even if it is the most common). On the other hand, D&D makes very little effort to be symmetrical with respect to size.
 
 
A more successful implementation of this symmetry can be found in the scaling rules from Mekton Zeta, and more fully realized in its advanced technical supplement, Mekton Zeta Plus. It presents a series of scales: Human (1/10 scale, for people and personal equipment), Roadstriker (1/5 scale, for Powersuits and small vehicles), Mekton (1/1 scale for most mecha, large vehicles, small structures), Corvette (10/1 huge mecha or vehicles, buildings, small ships), Starship (100/1 scale for capital ships, fortresses, and similar), and Excessive (no specific scale factor, reserved for relative comparisons among colossi such as the Death Star, the Midgard Serpent, Ego the Living Planet, the Zentraedi Base Station, or similar titans). Guidelines are also presented for defining custom scales, for example: 1/20 Pet scale, 1/100 Pest scale, or 1000/1 City scale could all be easily implemented.
 
 
 
Within the MZ+ scale framework, qualities such as height, weight, cost, range, and damage capacity all vary in one way or another with respect to scale, but things like to-hit rolls within a common scale are not effected. Only when differently scaled actors come into direct conflict do modifiers to action rolls appear. Off-scale components are also possible, such as a strike-fighter with anti-ship torpedoes or a battleship with anti-aircraft guns. The symmetry is not quite absolute, as special rules come in to play at Starship scale for crew actions and disabling ships' systems, and slightly different damage methods are used at Human scale for compatibility with other Interlock-system games (Cyberpunk 2020, et al).
 
 
 
I don't know of any system that fully exhibits this symmetry. Mekton Zeta largely succeeds, despite some inconsistencies and overlap potential here and there. GURPS tries, but in some places the asymmetries cause strange problems that require hand-waving on the part of the GM. In contrast, D&D has traditionally made only token efforts to be symmetrical with respect to size, giving rise to humorous situations where weasels or domestic cats may be more effective combatants than some low-level characters.
 
  
 
===Relative Attributes===
 
===Relative Attributes===
Line 33: Line 27:
 
===NPC vs PC===
 
===NPC vs PC===
 
Systems should have no mechanical differences between a player character and a non-player character. For the purposes of this discussion, it's only important that NPCs ''could'' be dealt with the same way as PCs. Extra rules to speed up one-vs-group combat, for example, wouldn't count against it.
 
Systems should have no mechanical differences between a player character and a non-player character. For the purposes of this discussion, it's only important that NPCs ''could'' be dealt with the same way as PCs. Extra rules to speed up one-vs-group combat, for example, wouldn't count against it.
 
This symmetry is purposely broken in some games to create a cinematic mood. Effectively the system provides rules to limit resources to some NPC's, typically called "mooks" and give an easier opponent for PC's to interact with.
 
 
===Resolution System===
 
That is, using the same mechanics to describe different kinds of activities and conflicts. It's not as easy as rolling d20 (or 3d6, or pool of d10s, or whatever) for everything - it's also about similar granularity, similar relation to character's stats, etc. If a game uses a map, describes attacks and counts HPs in combat while it resolves social conflicts with a single roll (or a few rolls, counting successes), it does not have a resolution system symmetry.
 
 
No game I know of fully exhibits this symmetry, though most games try.
 
  
 
== Unusual Symmetries ==
 
== Unusual Symmetries ==
 
These are further symmetries that some systems may exhibit, but that aren't likely to come up very often, exept perhaps in a game designed to take advantage of such a symmetry.
 
These are further symmetries that some systems may exhibit, but that aren't likely to come up very often, exept perhaps in a game designed to take advantage of such a symmetry.
  
===Body Plans===
+
''No examples for the moment''
Symmetry with respect to body plans would imply that as far as the system is concerned a limb is a limb, and there are unified rules for dealing with characters with arbitrary body plans. This also means that while a humanoid body plan should also work, it shouldn't be the default with everything else being exceptions.
 
 
 
D&D pretty much ignores body plans except for granting extra attacks and a few other occasional details. GURPS tries to deal with this, but it's done as a series of exceptions to the humanoid standard. (Not to say that there's anything necessarily wrong with either approach. That's why this is under the unusual symmetries.)
 
 
 
===Observable State===
 
A game has this kind of symmetry if all situations that cannot be distinguished by observations in-game are identical in game mechanics. Things like deterministic durations that cannot be measured in game (no observation may tell an effect that will be active a few more hours from one that will end in minutes), HPs that do not describe real wounds and fatigue or clearly meta-game resources break this symmetry.
 
 
 
This symmetry is only borderline unusual. Most games would exhibit traces of this without having been designed to do so. What makes it unusual is that few, if any, games were designed with this in mind as breaking this symmetry can make some design decisions much simpler.
 
  
 
[[Category:Game Mechanic]]
 
[[Category:Game Mechanic]]
 
[[Category:Game System]]
 
[[Category:Game System]]
 
[[Category:Resources]]
 
[[Category:Resources]]

Please note that all contributions to RPGnet may be edited, altered, or removed by other contributors. If you do not want your writing to be edited mercilessly, then do not submit it here.
You are also promising us that you wrote this yourself, or copied it from a public domain or similar free resource (see RPGnet:Copyrights for details). Do not submit copyrighted work without permission!

Cancel Editing help (opens in new window)