Editing Session 49

BethE: We have to wait till William gets back before we send out invites, right?<br>
Knockwood: well, I think Kudzu pretty much scuttled our original plans, ne?<br>
Random_Nerd: Depends how you look at it.<br>
BethE: Just the Angel of the Moon part.  We don't necessarily need a guest of honor.<br>
Etheric: We can still have the party.  It might be a bad idea to use the Angel of the Moon.<br>
Knockwood: Nobles only, then?<br>
Etheric: Probably.<br>
BethE: (Like we could stop an Imperator if he wanted to visit.)<br>
Random_Nerd: ___________START______________<br>
Random_Nerd: (Now, the PCs had returned from the Heart to the meeting room, right?)<br>
DanteE: (might not have...)<br>
Theresa: (Well, they're in the same building.  Why not, Dante?)<br>
Carrie: (I have no objection to our having gone back.)<br>
DanteE: (OK then.)<br>
Theresa: (Ditto.  Conference room it is, then.)<br>
Random_Nerd: (It is there, then, that our scene begins.)<br>
* Theresa crosses the Angel of the Moon off of the guest list.<br>
Brian: (Question: was Brian at the previous proceedings?)<br>
Random_Nerd: (Brian was not.  He was Guarding The Horses.)<br>
Brian: (very well.)<br>
Theresa: (He can come back in, though.)<br>
Brian: (He'll already be at the Meeting Room)<br>
DanteE: "All right, guess we're going with Plan B, then."<br>
Theresa: "Which is?"<br>
Brian: "Care to fill me in?  What did our lord and master have to say?"<br>
Random_Nerd: (A song and dance spectacular!)<br>
DanteE: "That inviting the Angel of the Moon is a Bad Idea."<br>
Theresa: "That the moon symbolizes lunacy for a reason..."<br>
Theresa: "So, just Nobles as guests then?  Nobles and their anchors?"<br>
DanteE: "Well, if we include anchors we might have too many people."<br>
Theresa: "How many is too many?"<br>
Carrie: "It would make sense to let anyone invited send an Anchor if they could not make it themself.  But we should ask William about the protocol."<br>
DanteE: "We could just invite Nobles and give them discretion as to whether to bring their Anchors"<br>
* Theresa taps a pencil against her pad of paper.  "Wonder how he's doing."<br>
DanteE: "Who?"<br>
Theresa: "William.  With the getting the soldiers back."<br>
Theresa: (Hmm...Lesser Div of Plants out in the world, looking for William?)_<br>
DanteE: (Can we call him?)<br>
Random_Nerd: (William, as it turns out, is /not/ a plant.)<br>
Carrie: (Lesser Div of Hope, to tell whether his hope of finding the soldiers has been fulfilled?)<br>
Theresa: (I meant plants around William.  *raspberry*)<br>
Random_Nerd: (Not fully, but he's making progress.)<br>
Random_Nerd: (Well, Lesser Divinations of Plants only tell you about plants.)<br>
Theresa: (Ah.  Hmm.)<br>
Theresa: "We should probably wait till he gets back before we get into the gritty of the invites, right?  Proper wording and somesuch."<br>
DanteE: "Probably."<br>
* Carrie seems momentarily distracted. "He is on the way to fulfilling the hope embodied in his mission, but has not yet accomplished it. And yes, that does seem for the best."<br>
Theresa: "So..if we invite the Nobles we already have listed...now what?  Talk John into giving tours?"<br>
DanteE: "Any difficulty?"<br>
DanteE: (that was to Carrie, Re: William)<br>
DanteE: to Theresa: "That may be tricky, considering he was reluctant to let _us_ in."<br>
Carrie: "I didn't get a sense of inordinate difficulty...  Just a lot of time involved."<br>
Theresa: "Well, we _were_ being considered Chancel invaders and possibly aliens from another planet besides."<br>
DanteE: "Right... and we'll be bringing in 'invaders' and 'aliens' from outside for the party."<br>
Theresa: "Okay, point, there."<br>
Theresa: "But where else would we be holding stuff at, like the miracle contest?  The Diplomacy Grove?  And keep people from wandering into the Library?"<br>
DanteE: "Diplomacy Grove is a given.  I mean, this is applied diplomacy we're talking about. :) "<br>
Carrie: "Would it really matter if they found the Library?  Isn't what's there common knowledge?<br>
Brian: "Isn't the Grove also shielded against ... unwanted side effects?"<br>
DanteE: "We know there's something there that keeps people away....<br>
DanteE: "which is another reason to hold it there."<br>
Random_Nerd: (Hmm.  I don't recall you putting a major defense around the Grove.  Near as it seems, it just happens to not attract attention.)<br>
Random_Nerd: (Which is one way it might qualify for the divination you guys used to find it.)<br>
Carrie: (Good point.)<br>
Theresa: "I thought the Library was more a collection of what...Kudzu knows.  Or wants us to possibly know."<br>
DanteE: "So far we've used it as a Guide to Nobility..."<br>
DanteE: "What else is in there?"<br>
Theresa: "We could ask it."<br>
* Theresa will use a ghostmiracle of Realm to ask the Library what its limitations are.<br>
Random_Nerd: (To quote what Kudzu said when he created the Library, it has information "Of yourselves, the extents and natures of your capabilities, and of the world. The education that one in your position should possess.")<br>
Random_Nerd: (And you need a divination to hear the answer.)<br>
Random_Nerd: (Or you can just remember what Kudzu said.)<br>
DanteE: (Considering all our guests would be in similar positions, I think we're good.)<br>
Carrie: (It's not terribly likely they would even find it.)<br>
Random_Nerd: (Also, remember, the knowledge isn't in the Library itself.  It's in the winds of Kaerkoven.  The Library is just a tool to extract it.)<br>
Theresa: (I thought it was close to the Grove and you know...ceramic.)<br>
Theresa: (I'll remember what Kudzu said instead.)<br>
Theresa: "How long do you think the Party will last?"<br>
Brian: "As long as it will"<br>
DanteE: "We should prepare for a Major Event."<br>
DanteE: (Including Nobles wearing togas of ether and madness passed out on top of the capitol dome utterly blitzed on ambrosia Jello-shots. :)<br>
Random_Nerd: (Greater Creation of TOGA!)<br>
Theresa: (Fine, but you get to scrub the vomit off the monuments...)<br>
Theresa: *thoughtfully, while drawing ivy on her pad*  "Maybe we should evacuate the capital..."<br>
DanteE: "If we keep it small we _should_ be able to contain it."<br>
DanteE: (How big is the Diplomacy Grove?_<br>
Random_Nerd: (Mmm.  Big enough to fit a couple dozen people and some tables and so on without shoving.)<br>
Random_Nerd: (Not big enough to fit Monty or something.)<br>
DanteE: (hm...)<br>
Theresa: (We had to move Monty to a moon to have him fit.  Oh, reminds me, we still have the Room of LotsaSpace.)<br>
DanteE: "Then again, we have the entire country to play with."<br>
Theresa: *smile*  "We still want to have a country when we're done."<br>
Brian: "That room... was that one insulated against Damage?"<br>
Random_Nerd: (Emphatically not so much.)<br>
DanteE: "You mean the room with the big hole in the side?"<br>
Brian: "Oh, right."<br>
Brian: "Wasn't it insulated at one point, though?"<br>
Theresa: "Oh, I thought we had fixed that hole.  Should make sure no one's wandered in and headed off in a direction for a week."  *makes a note*<br>
Random_Nerd: (Insulated?)<br>
Theresa: "Well, I remember using some roots to try and hold the ground stable underneath to prevent some damage when Monty hopped."<br>
Brian: (I thought we had it protected against Monty crashing at one point?)<br>
DanteE: "We set it up to grow with Monty but stay closed... wait a minute...."<br>
* DanteE heads down to look in the room<br>
* Theresa , not having much else to do, heads down too.  Wondering what size the vegetation is now with Monty not there.<br>
* Theresa will poke her head in through the dutchdoor and look?<br>
Random_Nerd: (Look at what in particular?)<br>
DanteE: (Just survey the room...)<br>
DanteE: (and I was wondering: is it still growing?)<br>
Theresa: (The inside of the room.  The plants inside.  See if I can see the hole which I thought we had fixed while we fixed the rest of the chancel.)<br>
Random_Nerd: There's a hole about the size of a half dozen schools stacked on top of each other, and some plants the size of largish buildings.<br>
Random_Nerd: The hole through the wall looks really weird, spatially speaking.  Like an optical illusion or a hallucination.<br>
Random_Nerd: (Yes, it's still growing.)<br>
Random_Nerd: (The change you made wasn't conditional on Monty's presence.)<br>
DanteE: (thought so)<br>
Theresa: "Hmm...looks like Monty is still going up on the Moon..."<br>
DanteE: "OK, we need to do some remodeling...)<br>
DanteE: "<br>
Theresa: "Curtains can not fix this."<br>
DanteE: "And I don't really want to know what would happen if some of this timber fell."<br>
Random_Nerd: (Err, it might slightly make time and space break.)<br>
DanteE: "We need to unhook this from Monty, quickly."<br>
Theresa: (Dante - which timber did you mean?  Trees or the parts of the walls?)<br>
Brian: "Isn't it only the inside of the room which is hooked to him?"<br>
Theresa: "The plants are too.  So that, in theory, he would have something to eat."<br>
DanteE: (Either.)<br>
Brian: "That's what I meant, stuff inside the room"<br>
Random_Nerd: (Well, the Change of Space that was done, used the building to define the boundery line between the twisted space inside and the regular space outside.)<br>
Carrie: (Anyone remember how I spent so many RMPs this story already?)<br>
Brian: "How do the plants like being that huge?"<br>
Random_Nerd: (Enough to do a Lesser Change, Carrie.)<br>
Carrie: (What did I do before?  Trying to remember..)<br>
Random_Nerd: (The badge machine.)<br>
Carrie: (Ah yes.)<br>
Random_Nerd: (So, if that boundery is broken to bits, you've got space twisted all over itself in piles and contortions.  Might manifest spontaneous High Summonings and so on, even.)<br>
Carrie: (Thank you.)<br>
Brian: (... um, then we seriously need to fix that)<br>
Random_Nerd: (And if you wanted to nettle the Power of Geometry, you'd have saved yourself some effort.)<br>
DanteE: (Should consider just un-making the room entirely)<br>
Theresa: (Geome...oh, wait, no, we're inviting Physics.)<br>
Carrie: (Would a Major Preservation fix it?  Or does it need a Major Creation to cancel out a Lesser Change?)<br>
Random_Nerd: (As it is, it's rather twisted and messed up, but not as bad as if the building got knocked down.)<br>
* Theresa LessDivs the plants about how they are feeling.<br>
Random_Nerd: "Wheee!  I'm a plant!"<br>
Theresa: (Yep, those are _my_ plants.)<br>
Theresa: "I think Size Doesn't Matter to the plants, Brian.  They have their food and water and nothing is hurting them.  They're pretty happy."<br>
DanteE: "Can't they be happy bonsai?"<br>
Theresa: "Well...yes, if I wanted.  Wanting to play Godzilla, Dante?"  *smile*<br>
Brian: "It's a man in a rubber suit!"<br>
DanteE: "Do we really need the room, or can we just un-create it?  Maybe put the plants in a nice shoebox."<br>
Brian: "Now, if only Realm Creations were free... ;)"<br>
Theresa: (Hmm..if I Destroyed the plants in this room, would that be a Harvest?)<br>
Brian: (only if they're One Of A Kind)<br>
Random_Nerd: (Well, how long do you think it'd take?  And would it Matter?)<br>
Brian: (I would posit that since she made them, she could make them again, so it wouldn't Matter.  On the other hand, I'm not the HG)<br>
DanteE: (the Humongous Carrot is surely unique, ne? :)<br>
Theresa: (I think that this might now be one of the biggest concentrations of plants inside the Chancel.  Hmm...how long it would take is thought-provoking.  *thinks*)<br>
Brian: (Otherwise: Greater Creation, then Destruction ... blow a pile of MPs for the ... DP?)<br>
Random_Nerd: (S'gotta be a meaningful diminuation of your estate, and it has to take a relevant amount of time, some of which occurs during non-downtime.)<br>
Random_Nerd: (And as an unofficial guideline... if considering a given potential Harvest makes you wince, it's a good sign.)<br>
Brian: (I Greaterly Destroy the number pi.)<br>
Brian: (... not really)<br>
Theresa: (*is looking up how many points a Destruction is on her end...*)<br>
Brian: (/EVERYONE/ would yell at me for that one ...)<br>
Random_Nerd: (That would totally count, actually.  Pi, I mean.)<br>
Random_Nerd: (Destroy i while you're at it!)<br>
Brian: (interestingly, circles will suddenly cease to exist.  But what does that mean to the rest of reality?)<br>
Theresa: (Bumpy roads.)<br>
DanteE: (The room is filled with her creations which were linked to Monty, which itself made them grow with Imperator power.)<br>
Theresa: (And more cobblers than pie.)<br>
Brian: (i is more insidious, as it's kinda there but not... it's useful for the arithmetic, but nothing can actually /be/ i.  So, what would /that/ mean?)<br>
Theresa: (Hmm..this would be a Lesser Destruction, right?)<br>
Random_Nerd: (Well, there're a bunch of electrical engineers who'd be pissed.)<br>
Random_Nerd: (And you'd break the Mandlebrot Set.  And so on.)<br>
Brian: (well, IIRC, i is just a convenient way to get there.  They'd suddenly have to do a shitload more work, but their answers would all exist.  IIRC, of course, as it's been a couple years since dealing with i, and it was never much in depth)<br>
Random_Nerd: (Oh, and quantum mechanics would get munged.)<br>
DanteE: (If you really want to hose things, delete e.)<br>
Random_Nerd: (Do it!  Do it!)<br>
Brian: (e and pi are the two more destructive ones.  i is just insidious, as I said)<br>
Theresa: (Hmm..no, wait, this would be a Greater Destruction.  4 points.)<br>
Random_Nerd: (I suspect that deleting i would undermine the structure of reality in subtle but crucial ways.)<br>
Random_Nerd: (But, y'know... you can do it.  If you really want to.)<br>
Brian: (I can't decide if it would do that, or if reality would keep on ticking, just with physicists going "buh?" a lot)<br>
Random_Nerd: (Well, as we've done it, numbers are real things, not just representations of things.)<br>
Random_Nerd: (We've been handling them a little like platonic forms, have we not?)<br>
Brian: (true)<br>
Random_Nerd: (So it might be like deleting the Platonic Table.  Afterwards, things could be flat, and so on, but there wouldn't be such a thing as a table.  People couldn't make horizontal things to put things on.)<br>
Theresa: (Sounds like tables being Excruciated.)<br>
DanteE: (You'd also royally piss off a number of your fellow Nobles)<br>
Random_Nerd: (A little like that, on a smaller scale.)<br>
Random_Nerd: (Really, any Power can mess with their Estate like that, in some way or another.)<br>
Random_Nerd: (So, now, where were we?)<br>
Brian: (Beth was about to blow up the poor plants in the Room)<br>
DanteE: (looking into the room-o-strange)<br>
Theresa: (Pondering a Greater Destruction of the plants in the room.  Since probably if we take the Lesser Change off of the room, we're going to blow out the capital with all of the plants that are suddenly there.)<br>
Theresa: (...  No, wait.  The plants were connected to the size of the room.  Cancel the size adder and the plants should go to normal as well.)<br>
DanteE: "I think we should clear out the room and eliminate it."<br>
Theresa: (Or am I wrong about that?)<br>
Random_Nerd: (Mmm... are you sure about that, Beth?  *checks notes*)<br>
Theresa: (I'm giving that I am wrong, but I can check in some places if it's not in your notes.)<br>
DanteE: (the size adder for the plants was an afterthought...)<br>
Carrie: (I think I recall the plants were a later miracle.)<br>
Random_Nerd: (The plants were made with a separate miracle, with the intent to "keep up with the giant rabbit.")<br>
Theresa: (Ah.  So they're linked to Monty.  Okay then.  *thinks*)<br>
Theresa: (Okay, one incredibly flashy use of power coming up.  Good thing I'm planning on just being a judge in the Domain miracle contest.)<br>
* Theresa frowns at the plants of the room who can't exist safely outside of the room.  "The poor plants...they were so happy in here...no competition, really..."<br>
DanteE: (Does it count as a Harvest?  She's certainly wincing. :)<br>
Random_Nerd: (Could just move 'em somewhere else.)<br>
Brian: "Hey, T ... move 'em to the Moon, with Monty"<br>
Theresa: (Yeah, but they're still connected to Monty...*thinks*  What would a move be...just what I was thinking, Brian.  :) )<br>
Brian: "Of course, some fenagling might be necessary to help 'em survive..."<br>
Random_Nerd: (That'd easy.  She can do that with free miracles.)<br>
DanteE: "Monty's surviving, that's probably done."<br>
Random_Nerd: (That's just lesser preservation territory.)<br>
Random_Nerd: (Besides, what makes you think there's no air on the moon?)<br>
* Theresa waves a hand.  "Bah, plant finagling shouldn't be an issue at all."<br>
Brian: (I was talking about soil nutrients)<br>
Random_Nerd: (Ah, okay.)<br>
Theresa: (Moon's got dirt as well.  We could be growing moon tomatoes and such.  New market product!  <g>)<br>
Brian: "Would beat killing 'em, wouldn't it?  Maybe they'd like the new perspective on things..."<br>
Theresa: (So, what kind of miracle would be a move?)<br>
Random_Nerd: (I'm pondering that.  It's a grey area.)<br>
Theresa: "I know they would notice the difference for a little bit, but after a while...plants don't have a very good long term memory without a lot of prodding."<br>
DanteE: (Change of Location?)<br>
Random_Nerd: (Now, these plants are huge.  So it'd at least take a Greater Miracle of some sort...)<br>
Random_Nerd: (Or maybe Aspect.)<br>
Random_Nerd: (Okay, I know.  Making a plant vanish in one place and appear in another works pretty much the same as a destruction with included creation, yes?)<br>
Brian: (... transporters!)<br>
Theresa: (RN - yes.)<br>
DanteE: (Creation of Space Warp!)<br>
Random_Nerd: (So, moving all the giant plants to the moon would be a Deep Domain miracle for Theresa.)<br>
Theresa: (So Major Destruction of Plants Here with Creation of Plants There?)<br>
Random_Nerd: (4 DMPs.)<br>
Random_Nerd: (Pretty much.  Metaphysically, that's not what's happening, but in terms of how to represent it with the Nobilis rules, that's my best approximation.)<br>
DanteE: (Could she do it with Mastery?)<br>
Random_Nerd: (Aspect 7 could do it.  Or Aspect 6 if you don't mind smashing the plants to bits and knocking holes in the moon on impact.)<br>
Random_Nerd: (Mastery?)<br>
DanteE: (Control of the simpler motions of her estate)<br>
Theresa: (What's Mastery?)<br>
Theresa: (Ah.)<br>
Random_Nerd: (She doesn't have that.)<br>
Theresa: (No, I have Elemental.)<br>
Random_Nerd: (And also it wouldn't do it.  That's just a Lesser Change.)<br>
Random_Nerd: (You know, you could to a Lesser Change on each plant to give it the ability to fly to the moon...)<br>
Random_Nerd: (But I imagine that's one of those "I swallowed the spider to catch the fly" solutions.)<br>
DanteE: (or Elemental-merge with the lot and hop there. :)<br>
Theresa: (And also, would DA anyone looking upward at the time...)<br>
Random_Nerd: (Basically, destroying the plants or moving them to the moon costs the same.)<br>
Brian: (Hi, plants, you guys get to fly now!)<br>
DanteE: (Maybe something similar to how we got Monty up there?)<br>
Random_Nerd: (You could Aspect Six swallow and digest the plants...)<br>
Random_Nerd: (Deus Ex Machina, you mean?)<br>
DanteE: (I thought we used a Realm space-warp to do that)<br>
Theresa: (No, Kudzu did it.)<br>
* Theresa caresses a leaf of nearby plantlife.  "I...can't destroy all of them.  Not like this.  Not on just a...whim.  I want to send them to the moon."<br>
* Brian comforts Theresa "You can do it, you know.  They'd probably love it there."<br>
Theresa: (Yes, I know, out of context, Theresa's comment is...weird.)<br>
Random_Nerd: (Nobilis: The Game Where You Send Things To The Moon On A Whim.)<br>
Brian: (^_^)<br>
DanteE: "You planning on bringing Ralph Kramden here and start an argument between them? :) "<br>
Theresa: "No...although we could throw you to the moon and you could _catch_ them...but then you might have trouble coming back."  *grin*<br>
DanteE: "Wait a minute, we're talking about what's already an extra-dimensional space.<br>
DanteE: "What if we just move this door there?"<br>
Random_Nerd: (Just tie a rope to him!)<br>
Random_Nerd: (Uh, a really long one.  And then tug on it to pull him back!)<br>
Random_Nerd: (Be aware that this voids his health insurance.)<br>
Theresa: (He's got Sacrosanct...)<br>
Theresa: (And didn't we try that already to him...and it Ended Badly?)<br>
DanteE: (... are there any links to Earth on the Moon?)<br>
Random_Nerd: (It'd still hurt like nobody's business.)<br>
Random_Nerd: (No links yet.  Want to make one?)<br>
Random_Nerd: (And it's not the Moon.  Just /a/ moon.)<br>
DanteE: (How?)<br>
Random_Nerd: (I dunno.  Surprise me.)<br>
Theresa: "Wouldn't that twist the door and the room into a connection tween here and the Moon and we would make also with the Tower exploding?"<br>
DanteE: "If the tower was going to explode it would have exploded at some point when Monty was stomping around the room."<br>
DanteE: "Hm...<br>
DanteE: "Y'know, we still need to learn to Think Like Nobility. :)<br>
Random_Nerd: (Okay, if you want to try this, come up with a good reason why it won't do very complicated and horrible things to the universe.  If it's persuasive enough, I'll go with it.)<br>
DanteE: "...didn't we link the room specifically to the _door_?"<br>
Random_Nerd: (Otherwise, it's a "Yes, but" situation.)<br>
Theresa: "Taking a small rainforest and moving it to a moon isn't Thinking Noble-like?"<br>
DanteE: "Picture this: we take the door.  We unhook it from the tower and take it with us.<br>
DanteE: "...or. more to the point, I take it with me.<br>
Random_Nerd: (I'm trying to come up with a mental model to figure out how this would work.  Hmm.)<br>
DanteE: "Then I go somewhere where there's a link from here to Earth, close enough to another one that would reasonably link back to the new moon.<br>
DanteE: "... maybe .... Las Vegas.  It's urban enough that we can go from here to the heart of there, but outside of there is desert, which _may_ link to the moon...<br>
DanteE: "if we can find the one spot that's urban enough to link but desert enough to link there."<br>
Theresa: (RN's looking something up.)<br>
Brian: "..."<br>
DanteE: (in an atlas or a psych book? :)<br>
Random_Nerd: (Actually, looking for my copy of nMage.  It's got a fair amount of stuff involving folding, spindling, and mutilating space, that might give me an idea for how to conceptualize layered spatial warps.)<br>
Random_Nerd: (You know, with a high enough Aspect miracle, you could just reach over, grab the moon, and put the stuff on it.)<br>
DanteE: (pluck the moon from the sky, in which case it would still be small?)<br>
Random_Nerd: (No, just stand on the earth, hold the moon in one hand, and put the plants on it with your other hand, and then put the moon back.)<br>
Random_Nerd: (High degrees of aspect don't even particularly have to make sense.)<br>
DanteE: (So my idea could work as well. :)<br>
Carrie: (That's far beyond taking down a blimp with a thrown courthouse territory..)<br>
Carrie: (Which is Aspect 6 or 7 forget which.)<br>
Random_Nerd: (It's Aspect 8 or 9.)<br>
Random_Nerd: (What I'm proposing, I mean.)<br>
Carrie: (That would take a Word of the Flesh for any of us, then.)<br>
Random_Nerd: (True.  So it's moot, but still interesting.)<br>
Theresa: "I'm not sure if I would want a link tween our new moon and the world outside of the Chancel.:<br>
Theresa: (" even)<br>
Random_Nerd: (8, I think.  Impossible, nonlocal effects.)<br>
Random_Nerd: (It's comperable to shooting down the sun in terms of implausibility.)<br>
Random_Nerd: (It amuses me, incidentially, that shooting down the sun with a slingshot isn't even the top end of what Nobles can do if they push themselves.)<br>
Theresa: "A link tween somewhere in Amyra and our Montymoon, okay, because we can keep an eye on it better, but...Las Vegas?"<br>
DanteE: "Well, I haven't looked, but I'm assuming the terrain up there is like the desert."<br>
Theresa: "Except for the green of Monty's Moon?<br>
Theresa: :<br>
DanteE: "Wait... we can create another portal, and you can 'encourage' them through that."<br>
Theresa: (Arg.  " )<br>
Theresa: (What would that difference be, pointwise?  Wouldn't it still just be a GDes and Crea?)<br>
Random_Nerd: (Portals and direct moving are different.)<br>
Random_Nerd: (Realm miracles give you more options than raw Plants miracles.)<br>
Theresa: (So, maybe it'll be Lessers then, if Dante gives a portal to the Moon?  Heck, that could be on the tour, take people to Monty's Moon.)<br>
DanteE: (they'd get stomped)<br>
Random_Nerd: (Do you mind if we stop pretty soon?)<br>
DanteE: (and does it bug anyone else that the Miracle system can let you make things out of thin air and send them away with a thought, but can't bloody MOVE them?)<br>
Theresa: (I'm okay with stopping if everyone else does.  And yeah, moving things without your hands is a little weird in this system...)<br>
Brian: (I'm fine with stopping)<br>
Random_Nerd: (That, and other issues relating to control of instances of the estate, is one of my issues with the Domain system.)<br>
Random_Nerd: (Really, it's probably my biggest beef with the miracle rules.)<br>
DanteE: (WAIT... got it.  Creation of Motion.)<br>
DanteE: (well, 'got it' in the sense of 'it'll let us move on already')<br>
Random_Nerd: (True.  With Realm, you can do it.()<br>
Random_Nerd: (It's just Domain that's poorly suited to it.)<br>
Theresa: (While I try to use Domain because I'm poorly suited to using the other Miracles.)<br>
Theresa: (So, Dante Creates Motion of the plants or a portal?)<br>
DanteE: (can you bless the plants with Motion via Domain?)<br>
DanteE: (The GWB has Flight as a 1-point gift, as a LC of Self, specifically changing one's position in space.<br>
Random_Nerd: (Mmm... that's interesting.)<br>
Random_Nerd: (Hmm.)<br>
Random_Nerd: (Could we please table this issue for a while so I have the chance to think about it?  I'm sorry, but my brain's just not sparking too well right now?)<br>
Random_Nerd: (Err, .)<br>
DanteE: (not that it helps us, cuz that means each plant would be a L6 miracle of domain)<br>
DanteE: (and the lot would be an L9)<br>
Random_Nerd: (Yeah.  It'd be the same as giving the plants the ability to fly.)<br>
Random_Nerd: (The Deep Miracle would still be cheaper.)<br>
Random_Nerd: (Oy.)<br>
DanteE: (send an email to RSB with a suggestion for 2nd Edition. :)<br>
Theresa: (You mean the one to come out after the apocalypse?  :) )<br>
DanteE: (Next week?  Kewl! :)<br>
Random_Nerd: (I mean, a change can cover anything.  So yeah, it's a convenient bucket to toss things in.)<br>
Random_Nerd: (But that makes it cost more than a lesser destruction with included creation.)<br>
Random_Nerd: (Err, cut "lesser" from that.)<br>
Random_Nerd: (Anyway, let's...)<br>
Random_Nerd: __________STOP_______________<br>
DanteE: (OK... so, Theresa can move the lot to the moon as a Deep miracle?)<br>
*** DanteE is now known as Knockwood.<br>
Random_Nerd: (Correct.)<br>
Random_Nerd: Sorry about getting bogged down in system matters.<br>
Random_Nerd: (Greater Destruction with included Greater Creation as a single conceptual act.)<br>
Knockwood: It's a glitch-from-hell in the Nobilis rules.<br>
*** Brian is now known as lazarus.<br>
Theresa: It'sll be a 4 point miracle.<br>
*** You are now known as BethE.<br>
BethE: *sheepish*  Sorry to bog everyone down in my plantmigration.<br>
Random_Nerd: You know what?  House rule.  Moving things around can be done at no greater cost than creating that thing from raw ether.  'Coz otherwise is just stupid.  Any objections?<br>
Knockwood: y'know, I might start a thread about this...<br>
Knockwood: none whatsoever.<br>
Knockwood: well... if you say a teleport works like that,<br>
Knockwood: and actually moving something would be, say, a ghost?<br>
Random_Nerd: Just local stuff on a minor degree?<br>
lazarus: no objections.<br>
lazarus: and no worries, Beth.<br>
BethE: *blink*  Okay, to clarify...it's now just a Greater Creation?<br>
Random_Nerd: (Now, moving things from one end of the Ash to the other will cost more.  But when you can see both ends?  Creation cost.)<br>
Random_Nerd: Yes.  Which is technically still a Deep Miracle, costing 4 points.<br>
Random_Nerd: But it's the /principle/ of the thing.<br>
Knockwood: RN: hm... well, something like 'Hey, that knife is floating!'.  Ghost, or more?<br>
Random_Nerd: Hmm.  How about anything seriously freaky-seeming is probably harder than a ghost miracle unless you've got a good argument otherwise.  That okay?<br>
Knockwood: define 'freaky'.<br>
BethE: Theresa:  "Oh, that's just Dante, playing drunken darts from across the building again..."<br>
Random_Nerd: If a regular guy told someone else he saw it happen, the listener would probably doubt it.<br>
Random_Nerd: The shadowy images of things of your estate are specifically exempted from this.<br>
Knockwood: that kills anything that happens in the Capitol. :)<br>
Random_Nerd: They're the primary function of ghost miracles, after all.<br>
Random_Nerd: But the real physical effects of ghosts are supposed to be subtle and minor.<br>
Random_Nerd: That sound good?<br>
Knockwood: so either making or moving something small is a L4?<br>
BethE: Subtle?  This group?<br>
Random_Nerd: Yeah.<br>
Random_Nerd: (Okay, house rule talley.  We have three, now.  1, Gifts can be upgraded by spending more points.  2, Gifts dealing with your own Domain or Estate count as common even if they otherwise wouldn't.  And now 3, moving things around within your field of vision is no harder than creating things.)<br>
Knockwood: hm... part of me still thinks that moving an existing thing ought to be 'easier' than creating a new one out of the ether.<br>
Random_Nerd: I think it should still be harder than a preservation, though.<br>
Random_Nerd: So this is a compromise solution.<br>
Knockwood: maybe not...<br>
Knockwood: cuz, a Preservation can _stop_ movement (LP of Position in Space)<br>
Random_Nerd: Well, how about this.  I'll think about it over the week, and we'll discuss it at the beginning of the next session.  You can work on more arguments for your side, too.<br>
Random_Nerd: 'Cos I'm out for the night, mechanical flaw or no mechanical flaw.<br>
@@ Line 1: / Line 1: @@
-[[Chancel_Amyra]]<br>
-[[Amyra:Chapter_7|Chapter 7]]
-<br><br>
 BethE: We have to wait till William gets back before we send out invites, right?<br>
 Knockwood: well, I think Kudzu pretty much scuttled our original plans, ne?<br>
@@ Line 394: / Line 391: @@
 Random_Nerd: Well, how about this.  I'll think about it over the week, and we'll discuss it at the beginning of the next session.  You can work on more arguments for your side, too.<br>
 Random_Nerd: 'Cos I'm out for the night, mechanical flaw or no mechanical flaw.<br>
-<br><br>
-[[Chancel_Amyra]]<br>
-[[Amyra:Chapter_7|Chapter 7]]