Talk:Mano a Mano

Always on Top

These important notes should stay at the top of the page

Titles on Mano a Mano pages

DON'T put chapter titles (== Chapter Title ==) on chapter pages (Introduction, Rolling Dice,Characters, Abilities, Equipment or Action Rules.) If you visit a chapter from the ToC the extra title is redundant. The chapter titles are built into the Complete System page (which is printing-oriented and does not need edit links.)

DO put section titles (=== Section Title ===) on pages that contain sections of a chapter. They are redundant if you visit the individual page, but you will usually see these pages as part of a chapter page, and being able to click on the title allows you to edit the section.

Discussion

No Hit Point System

Proposed Replacement for the Hit Point System

A character can move and act only on their turn unless they are interfering with another character's actions (with a counterattack for example) or actively coordinating with team members ("fighting in formation" for example.) A character can move and act on any turn to interfere with any character's actions. Characters coordinating with team members can move and act on one team member's turn. Characters can only move and act on one turn per round, so after interfering or a coordinated maneuver (except on their own turn) the character can do nothing on their next turn and cannot interfere or fight in formation until after that turn.

Speed = agility + strength - encumbrance or 1, whichever is greater. Characters and weapons have speed. Weapon speed is calculated using the character's agility or the weapon's agility, whichever is worse. Character and weapon speed is usually the same, but heavier weapons have less agility.

Action points (AP) = speed - damage penalty + 1 if the character uses a second weapon or 1, whichever is greater. AP is the maximum number of actions a character can perform per round. AP is based on the speed of the slowest weapon the character is using. When a character is not using any weapon, AP is based on the character's speed.

• A normal attack counts as one action and has a +1 damage modifier.
• A more powerful attack counts as two actions and has a +3 damage modifier.
• A trickier attack counts as two actions and has a +1 damage modifier and a +2 modifier to it's success rolls.
• Quick non-attack actions, such as pushing a door closed, count as one action.
• Slower non-attack actions could count as more actions or take a fixed amount of time.

Pressing the attack. Before a character moves and acts, they can choose to emphasize attack power at the expense of passive defense. This gives a +2 damage modifier to each of the characters attacks and a -2 modifier to defense rolls when the character does not counter (use an attack or other action to interfere with an attack.) These modifiers continue until the character decides whether to continue pressing the attack before they move and act in the next round.

Toughness = stamina (ability modifier) + 1. Toughness reflects how much damage you can take without showing any effects.

Damage penalty = (lasting damage + stun damage) / toughness . Damage penalty reduces a character's movement and action points.

Maximum damage penalty = health (ability modifier) If a character's damage penalty is greater than their maximum damage penalty, they are incapacitated. (Notice that toughness and stamina are usually more valuable than maximum damage penalty and health in combat, but health also determines things like whether you get sick or tired outside of combat.)

Movement is based on ability modifiers and the character's damage penalty at the moment they begin to move and act each round. A character can move one meter for each movement point. (One meter per round is 0.5 meters per second, 30 meters per minute, 1.8 kilometers per hour or a little over one mile per hour.) A character can move before and after each attack or counterattack, but they must be in a position where they can attack their opponent to begin the attack.

A character can sprint twice as fast as their normal movement (two meters per movement point.) When a character sprints they have a -2 modifier against hand to hand attacks for a full round. A sprinting character takes 2 points of stun damage every round that they sprint (even if they only sprint a short distance.) They take the stun damage from sprinting at the end their turn before recovering stun damage.

• On the ground, movement = 1 + running (ability modifier) - lame (disability modifier) - damage penalty. If your movement is 0 or less, look up the distance you can move on the following table:

	Movement		Distance you can move per round
	0		50 cm or a full one meter space every other round
	-1		25 cm or a full one meter space every four rounds
	-2		10 cm or a full one meter space every ten rounds
	-3 or less		you cannot move (i.e 1 + 0 Running - 4 Lame)

• In water, movement = swimming (ability modifier) - damage penalty. If movement is 0 or less, you can't move horizontally.

• In the air, movement = flying (ability modifier) - damage penalty. If movement is 0 or less you can't fly.

• While climbing, movement = (climbing (ability modifier) - damage penalty) / 2. If movement is 0 or less you can't climb.

New Size Scale

   mass    pow/abs agi example

  < 1 g       -6   +6   small bug
   1-9 g      -5   +5   shrew/hummingbird
  10-99 g     -4   +4   mouse/largest insects
 100-999 g    -3   +3   rat
   1-9 kg     -2   +2   cat/fox/rabbit
  10-49 kg    -1   +1   dog, heaviest flying bird
  50-199 kg    0    0   human/deer/wolf
 200-999 kg   +1   -1   cow/lion/horse/bear/moose
   1-9 tons   +2   -2   giraffe/hippo/rhino/elephant
  10-99 tons  +3   -3   large sauropods and whales
  > 100 tons  +4   -4   biggest whales

Notes:

• Flanking attacks and counterattacks that include parrying are examples of trickier attacks.
• If your opponent uses a tricky attack, a normal counterattack that fails could be a waste compared to eating the attack and waiting for your turn to get them with your normal attack. This means the new system could have more blow-trading. (Especially if the optional rule allowing you to break up combos is used.)
• A giant who has 1 speed with armor and 2 speed without is more likely to choose no armor than a man who has 3 speed with armor and 4 speed without.
• Encumbrance no longer affects combat rolls. When a character's encumbrance changes, his speed (and the speed of each weapon he uses) changes. Encumbrance tokens could be used as a reminder in the unusual situation where a character has a temporary encumbrance change and the player doesn't want to update the character sheet. (The maximum number of tokens would be agility + strength - 1, since you cannot have less than 1 speed.)
• The weapon breaking rules should be removed because we don't use them, this will make the term "toughness" less ambiguous.

Q: How are we going to track current AP and how many AP a character has used this round? If it's all held in the player's memory and AP changes during combat rounds, should damage penalty lower damage bonus instead of AP?

A: AP is only calculated when you begin your actions, and only changes if you have taken enough damage or recovered enough stun to change your damage penalty, or if you have switched weapons. It may be easier to count down remaining AP instead of counting up moves so far vs. initial AP. You can also use counters to represent AP, similar to the old HP system.

This proposal has several combat variables that need to be tracked. Some of them are qualitative or true-false, like whether you are pressing the attack or which kind of attack you are doing. I can think of five that are numbers: Lasting and stun damage, damage penalty, movement and AP. They all come together when a character begins to move and act, when lasting and stun damage determine damage penalty which modifies movement and action points.

No HP Character Sheet

 _________________________ __________________________ _______ ________ ______
|     Lasting Damage      |        Stun Damage       |Damage |Movement|Action|
|                         |                          |Penalty|        |Points|
|                         |                          |       |        |      |
|                         |                          |       |        |      |
|_________________________|__________________________|_______|________|______|

Name _________________________ Age ______ Sex ______Template _________________
Occupation(s) ____________________________________________ Template CP (_____)
Length/Height ________ Reach _____ Max Damage Penalty ____  Ability CP (_____)
Mass _______ Total Equipment Mass _______ Encumbrance ____    Other CP (_____)
Agility ___ Power ___ Absorption ___ Toughness ___ Speed ___  Total CP (_____)
ABILITIES/disabilities  Mod Lvl  (CP)                           Mod Lvl  (CP)
_______________________ ___ ___ (____)  _______________________ ___ ___ (____)
_______________________ ___ ___ (____)  _______________________ ___ ___ (____)
_______________________ ___ ___ (____)  _______________________ ___ ___ (____)
_______________________ ___ ___ (____)  _______________________ ___ ___ (____)
_______________________ ___ ___ (____)  _______________________ ___ ___ (____)
_______________________ ___ ___ (____)  _______________________ ___ ___ (____)
_______________________ ___ ___ (____)  _______________________ ___ ___ (____)
_______________________ ___ ___ (____)  _______________________ ___ ___ (____)
EQUIPMENT (item name & special modifiers) Qty Mass Abs Cvr Cmb Spd Pwr Shp Rch
_________________________________________ ___ ____ ___ ___ ___ ___ ___ ___ ___
_________________________________________ ___ ____ ___ ___ ___ ___ ___ ___ ___
_________________________________________ ___ ____ ___ ___ ___ ___ ___ ___ ___
_________________________________________ ___ ____ ___ ___ ___ ___ ___ ___ ___
_________________________________________ ___ ____ ___ ___ ___ ___ ___ ___ ___
_________________________________________ ___ ____ ___ ___ ___ ___ ___ ___ ___
_________________________________________ ___ ____ ___ ___ ___ ___ ___ ___ ___
_________________________________________ ___ ____ ___ ___ ___ ___ ___ ___ ___
_________________________________________ ___ ____ ___ ___ ___ ___ ___ ___ ___

The Wimps and Babies System

This is a system to visually represent the proposed system with counters. It requires some counters and a grid. One block of the grid is shaded. The width of the shaded area is the character's toughness, and the height of the shaded area is the character's maximum damage penalty.

Two of the counters represent stun and lasting damage. For each point of lasting damage the lasting AND stun counters are moved to the next space on the shaded area, starting in the upper left corner and going right-to-left, top-to-bottom like a calendar. For each point of stun damage, the stun counter ONLY is moved to the next space. When a point of stun damage is recovered, the stun counter is moved back one space, unless it is already in the same space as the lasting counter.

Place counters in a non-shaded column to represent un-used AP and in another column to represent un-used movement. Reserve a column next to both of these columns for used AP and movement. Instead of calculating AP and movement normally, include counters that would be taken away by damage penalty. Each column should start on the same row as the first row of the shaded area. When a character begins to move and act, move all of the AP and movement into the un-used "left" column, except for any counters that are at least one row above the stun counter, which are moved to the used column.

movement    actions                damage
used left  used left  
+---+---+  +---+---+  +---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+
|   | * |  | * |   |  |///|///|///|///|///|   |   |   |
+---+---+  +---+---+  +---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+
|   | * |  |   | * |  |///|/*/|///|/*/|///|   |   |   |
+---+---+  +---+---+  +---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+
|   | * |  |   | * |  |///|///|///|///|///|   |   |   |
+---+---+  +---+---+  +---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+
|   |   |  |   | * |  |///|///|///|///|///|   |   |   |
+---+---+  +---+---+  +---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+
|   |   |  |   | * |  |   |   |   |   |   |   |   |   |
+---+---+  +---+---+  +---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+
|   |   |  |   |   |  |   |   |   |   |   |   |   |   |
+---+---+  +---+---+  +---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+

Optional Rules for the No HP System

• You may perform actions on any turn. AP and movement points are recalculated and refilled at the end of your turn, which is also when you decide whether to press the attack. You can still only move and act to interfere with other players actions, when fighting in formation or on your own turn.

• Actions consume movement. Each action uses one meter of movement for every AP it uses. After you have moved more than 1 meter and performed at least one action during a round you may not perform any actions unless you have enough movement. If you have moved 1 meter or less you may perform as many actions as your AP allows. If you have moved more than 1 meter and you have not performed any actions, but you have no movement left you can perform one action that uses one action point.

Hack and Slash Real-Time Role-Playing System (Hack and Slash RPS)

This set of variations is intended for "button-mashing" computer and video games where each individual action is affected by input. The normal Mano a Mano rules may be more suited for a real-time strategy or role-playing game.

There are no turns or rounds, except when the words "turn" and "round" refer to a 2 second time period. Characters act at the exact moment when they decide to act (or as soon as it is physically possible.) Things that take place "on the same turn" become simultaneous or sequential but within a two second period or overlap in time.

Each action has a time until it takes effect (effect time) and time until the next action can begin (duration). The minimum duration of an action is two seconds multiplied by the number of action points the action requires, divided by the character's action points. Action points are calculated on the fly (whenever a character's abilities, equipment or damage penalty changes) and are not "used", but help calculate action duration.

Duration is not always the same as the length of the animation representing the action. You may be able to jump into another action before the follow-through part of the animation is finished, or you may return to standing or moving animation for a moment before you can do the next action.

Actions that overlap in time can interfere with each other in spite of not being exactly simultaneous. When your action's effect time comes up, do a success roll (or compare pre-rolled totals) for your target's action and all actions targeting you if the action can be interrupted.

An action can be interrupted any time between it's beginning and it's effect time. A character cannot try to interrupt the same action twice. An action cannot interrupt two actions by the same character. In other words, for each action keep a list of the characters who have tried and failed to interrupt the action. Actions from these characters no longer affect that action, and it does not affect actions from those characters.

• If your action is successful, it continues, but the target's action is interrupted.
• If your action fails, it is interrupted but the target's action continues.
• If the action is half successful, reduce both actions' effects to half success (but don't reduce it again if it is already half successful from a previous interfering action.)

Lessons Learned from No Hit Points, for Hit Points

Here's what we've learned about the Hit Point system from working on the no-hit-point-system:

• Being able to throw more "small attacks" is roughly equivalent to being able to use lots of menuvering HP - since a series of small attacks has multiple dice rolls, increasing the likelyhood that some of those small attacks will be successful. Therefore "offensive manuvering" hit points are redundant.
• Having a smaller hit point pool combined with the use of Toughness (multiple damage points per hit point) as a size bonus might be a good way to rid the system of futile-attacks resulting from lack of power.
• Hit point system problems can be solved by having hit points != maximum attacks per turn. In fact, something like "combat bonus or 1, which ever is higher" is preferable. (Then you could have larger characters have MORE hit points, while smaller character still have more attacks-per-round. Potentially this could be used as a size advantage instead of absorption, making it easier to get rid of useless attacks created by lack of power. (Stride would be replaced by the movement rules from the no-hit-point system.) The problem is lack of abosrption means large characters kill each other off almost as fast as they do smaller characters.)
• "critical hit/success" is the primary way other RPG systems keep attacks from being totally stupid and void of value. "Automatically do at least one point of lasting damage when you roll a 6" could single handedly solve the pointless-attack problem in Mano a Mano 2006.

A new HP system based on lessons learned

For example, a new HP system based on these lessons learned might look like this:

• The only manuvering is defensive manuvering.
• 4 hit point pools: Ready, Defense, Used, and Damaged. Damaged = Stun Damage + Lasting Damage / toughness.
• Total HP would be average of best two "athletic abilities" or 1, whichever is higher (Average PC HP would be 3 or 4.)
• HP can give a +1 or a +2 power to an attack. If it gives a +1, that HP goes into defense. If it gives a +2, that HP goes into used.

This Character Sheet may then look like:

Seperate Optional Rules Section

I am thinking that "optional rules" should have their/its own section at the end of MaM. This way it will be easy to grasp the basic system without having to consider possible optional rules. Also, advanced players interested in optional rules will be able to find them without having to sift through the entire system.

Keeping optional rules close to default rules makes it easy to update optional rules when default rules change. It reduces the amount of cross-referencing needed. It encourages a selective approach to optional rules. It also makes optional rules easier to use so we can have a range of options from simple to advanced rather than hiding them away for advanced users only. This also means our default rules can be very basic, because popular but not essential rules are right where they need to be.

But we do want the basic system to be easy to grasp without having to consider possible optional rules, and less importantly, it is nice if advanced players can find optional rules quickly. Visually seperating optional rules from default rules without removing them from the context allows the reader to decide how much attention they want to give to optional rules. It also makes them easy for advanced readers to spot. Also if the optional rules are seperate wiki pages, we can easily create an appendix summarizing the optional rules if we want. Here is just one example of how they could be visually separated:

Optional Rule Mounted Combat When the Animal Attacks When riding an animal, the animal will fight automatically if it is trained to do so. Every time the animal attacks or defends, the rider must make a roll using their riding ability to stay mounted. The difficulty of this roll is 10. Stopping the Attack To keep the animal from attacking the rider must make an animal handling success roll every time the animal is attacked, and every round that the animal's attacker is visible. The difficulty of this roll is 10 if the animal is unhurt, or 15 if the animal has stun or damage. Animals that do not Fight Animals trained to be ridden but not to fight will not attack if they are being ridden. Instead, they will try to run unless the rider makes a successful animal handling roll. This has a difficulty of 15 if the animal is unhurt, or 20 if the animal has stun or damage. Charging Instead of having the animal attack, a rider may use the animal's speed to do a charging attack. (See Action/Attacking.) Vehicles Vehicle combat is similar to mounted combat, but most vehicles will not fight or try to run from an enemy. Ramming When a driver rams a target, their driving ability modifier or the vehicle's agility - whichever is lower - is used as the attack modifier. A successful ramming attack results in an automatically successful ramming counterattack by the target against the part of the vehicle used to ram (usually the front.) Head-on and Broadside Collisions If the vehicle and target are moving in different directions (or if only the vehicle is moving) the extra charging damage caused by the speed of both the vehicle and the target is added to the damage taken by both. Rear-end and Sideswipe Collisions If the vehicle and target are moving in the same direction then the charging damage is based on the difference in the distances the vehicle and target moved in that direction since the beginning of their last turn.

I must admit I'm much more concerned that the extra rules will add to the learning curve, than I am about some need of an advanced player. (Of course specific pritings can include and exclude whatever rules they like under the liscense.) For the purposes of this site, this suggested option might be best.--BFGalbraith 2005.12.07

Template CP for unbalanced bonuses

We could use a formula something like this:

  Agility
+ Absorption
+ Power
+ bonus based on the level of (Agility + Power)
+ bonus based on the level of (Agility + Absorption)
----------------------------------------------------
Agi + Abs + Pow + f1(Agi+Pow) + f2(Agi+Abs)

The first three lines give us our current CP scale (+1 per size level). The next two lines add points if power or absorption are higher than agility, or if agility is higher than Power or Absorption, based on formulas f1 and f2.

If f1 and f2 are the 2 and 3 times the geometric CP scale (f2 is higher because absorption is almost always helpful and power only helps certain types of attack), then each point of power or absorption greater than -1 times agility adds 2,6,12,20,42... or 3,9,18,30,63... CP. On the other hand, if power and absorption are the same, each point of agility greater than -1 times power or absorption adds 5,15,30,50,105... CP. (In other words Agility is like 5 abilities)

--SerpLord 02:27, 1 April 2006 (CEST)

Special Armor Bonuses

Weapons have special bonuses based on their design. Some help you parry, others are used for grappling, and some help you hit by reaching around defenses. Armor can also be designed to have special advantages and we can reflect this with similar special bonuses:

• Padded and ablative armor (bicycle helmet) absorb more blunt trauma, explosions, etc.
• Tough, flexible armor (leather, chainmail) resists cutting (including some stabbing weapons)
• Hard/smooth/angled/springy/stretchy armor deflects peircing attacks

The ideal armor would combine kevlar (springy/stretchy/smooth with ablative padding) and chainmail (tough against cutting.) This would be reflected as a very high absorption bonus. This composite of clay and metal would be ultra-heavy, so in practise some types of armor are more specialized:

• ("Blu") extra absorption against Blunt/Bludgeoning weapons - padding, clay, foam
• ("Cut") extra absorption against Cutting (not impaling) weapons - chainmail, leather
• ("Imp") extra absorption against Impaling weapons - lamellar? kevlar (no clay backing)
• ("B/C") extra absorption against Blunt and Cutting weapons
• ("B/I") extra absorption against Blunt and Impaling weapons - kevlar (with backing)
• ("C/I") extra absorption against Cutting and Impaling weapons

Weapons with low sharpness are usually blunt/bludgeoning weapons. Weapons with high sharpness are usually cutting weapons - even if they are mainly used for stabbing. To qualify as an impaling weapon, the weapon must be specially designed with a long narrow tip. Natural weapons are often impaling weapons so they can penetrate vital organs even through bone.

(Note: if you use kevlar without the backing it still gives you an absorption bonus against impaling weapons - including bullets - but you don't get the regular absorption bonus, so it's only going to deflect the lightest grazing hits.)

Disabilities & Using Abilities During Combat

Seriously guys. Don't allow players to take disabilities for negative CP. In fact make them pay double CP for disabilities if they want to be crippled and lame and blind and deaf and missing pretty much all their limbs and sensory organs because thats pretty much what they want anyway. Players who take disabilities can bite me.

Its pretty much an established fact that lawyers can just like see waves of sound bouncing off of your face. But at what cost? What cost indeed. If you use an ability to compensate for a disability it should require the minimum effort of 1 hitpoint per round. For example -- a blind person may use a cane to collect sensory data.

At times a GM might ask players to perform an ability check during a round of combat. My opinion is that players should not add their ability bonus to the check unless they specifically have established that they are using the ability. If the check is called before the player's turn and the player stated the use of the ability before the beginning of combat. The player would be allowed to add their ability bonus. If the check is called after the player's turn then the player would not be allowed to add their ability bonus the unless they specifically spent at least 1 hit point to use the ability.

--ulrich 11:00, 2005 Jul 2 (CEST)

LOL! - A blind person might also use a cane to fight evil - which will take more than 1 hit point per round :-). Seriously, placing limits on disabilities is essential to good gaming. A good rule would be that a character should not have more than one disability unless (A) she has a sucking character template (and then those should be her only disabilities) or (B) GM's permission (or allowed by the specific game.) Another good rule (especially if you have lots of small quirky disadvantages in the game) is to allow no more than 10 (or fewer) points of disadvantages. (This is one of those optional rules so important it should not just be in an appendix.)

I'm not sure I understand everything you are trying to say about ability checks, but we do need a rule for arbitrary actions during combat, to avoid the whole "while I fight these guys, I'm searching for traps, and burying bodies" problem.--SerpLord 15:17, 8 December 2005 (CET)

Team CP

Several characters with negative CP could beat a single character with positive CP. We may need to distinguish between an individual's CP total and the CP he adds to a team.

Individual CP  Team CP

 -20  or less      1
 -19  to -13       2
 -12  to  -7       3
  -6  to  -2       4
  -1  to   2       5
   3  to   5       6
   6  to   7       7
   8  or more    same

Q: We can do individual character CP without including weapon CP, but can we do team CP without including weapon CP? --BFGalbraith 2005.03.28.12

Fix Cross-References

Cross references like "(See Abilities/Skills.)" need to be hyperlinked to appropriate sections. Other text can also be hyperlinked. The only cross references that should be in (See ...) format are ones that are more helpful than distracting when you read the printed rules.

New Structure for Linear Reading

Areas that (probably) need attention:

• front and back covers, title page.
• how to create a book version
• floating tables (messy when opened in OpenOffice.org)
• (See Chapter/Section.) references
• Complete System
• Game Design
  • Adventures (basic definition of an Adventure/Scenario/Campaign/Sourcebook and what goes in it.)
  • Supplies (paper, pencil, hex mats, blank forms for templates, occupations, ability and equipment lists)
  • Templates
    • (emphasize designing templates)
    • Make a Template (follow the template structure and order more closely: dimensions, abilities, armor, limbs, weapons, CP)
  • Occupations
    • Requirements (abilities, training, social class, etc.)
    • Perquisites (equipment, income, social status, etc.)
    • other limitations (minimum/maximum number of occupations, starting occupations) part of Requirements?
  • Abilities
    • Availability (some abilities are limited to certain templates)
  • Equipment (explain how to design equipment - this is not about CP!)
• Character Creation
  • placement of missing limbs information and CP
  • placement of build information and CP
  • Occupations?
  • Character Equipment
  • Make a Character - Character Generation Example (review for consistency)
• Character Development
  • Developing Abilities through Training and Experience
  • Changing Occupations
  • Inventory Management or Acquiring and Losing Equipment (see Character Equipment)
  • Making Equipment
    • Equipment CP (see Armor and Weapon CP in the Template CP rules)
    • Make an Item - Equipment Generation Example

Things BFGalbraith noticed

When I was working on the How-To-Play adventure for www.SquawkRPG.net , I found that following things probably need to be included in Mano a Mano IMHO:

Rules for varying Height and Reach for individual characters (perhaps something as simple as +1 or -1 CP for an extra 1/2 meter, with no such option for zero-reach characters?)

Character templates have minimum and maximum heights, if you are outside that range, the template does not describe you. A full 50cm reach difference seems like it would also mean you are mutated beyond your template. We should consider (at least for future editions of MaM) templates that don't allow build variation (mecha) and and templates that allow extraordinary variation (mutants.)

If we look at a sufficiently large template (an 18 meter giant for example) a 0.5 meter reach difference is only like a 5 cm difference for a human. 1 CP per 0.5 m might work. We can set the minimum for all templates at 0 (could reflect disability or damage) but how do we set maximums? The easiest solution is to only allow it if the GM approves and/or assume that templates reflect the upper limit of the race's reach. The complicated solution is to add a new number to the template (especially complicated because now templates present options with multiple CP values instead of a fixed package of features.) --SerpLord 14:38, 11 September 2006 (PDT)

An explaination of "Kick" (from what I understand it's supposed to be like "pull" but you spend the hit points after firing the weapon instead of before...)

your guess is as good as mine :-) --SerpLord 14:38, 11 September 2006 (PDT)

An example of how to calculate the CP of the max range of a weapon (so a decent archery example... the correct answer is "you DON'T caculate CP of the max range of a weapon," but an example of how to caculate max range is needed.) In other words, we need a clear example of pull.

The reach of a ranged weapon is it's effective range. The CP of reach is 1 CP for each 0.5 m, or 2 CP/m According to Wikipedia, an AK-47 has an effective range of 300-450 m. Depending on whether you take the high or low estimate, that's 600-900 CP. (Imagine that we are fighting on an open plain and you have an AK-47 and I have a knife. I can move a few meters every time you get a shot off, so you'll get a dozen chances to shoot me before I reach you. It's potentially like a guy with a knife fighting 20 guys with spears.)

One nice thing about MaM is that it has been created by people who have really shot bows bows and firearms, have had their arms twisted into submission, been choked out, knocked out, slowly beaten down, been cut by knives, have done full-contact stick fighting, etc. :) I think you are forgetting "kick" in the above CP formula. Kick is Pull for fire arms, and the difference is that you spend the hit points as you pull the trigger, instead of before you pull the trigger. Body-power subtracts from kick before you spend the HP (parrelled to how it effects pull.) So for a 400 meter range weapon, with a kick of 4, the actual "reach" listed on the character sheet would be 100, and the total range would be 400m (4HPx100m.) In that case the reach of the AK would be worth 50 CP, and that would be about right IMHO. (And THAT's why we need an example of Kick in the rules.) -BFGalbraith, Sept. 12, 2006

The relationship between pull and range is complex, but here's a rough formula: 120 m + (20 m for each +1 pull), but no less than 20m. --SerpLord 14:38, 11 September 2006 (PDT)

I couldn't find any equipment mass calculation rules (they were probably removed when we were attempting "fuzzy size",) which is pretty important in the case of generating Armor.

Armor is way more important (players expect characters to be slowed down by heavy armor.) There are 3 main factors involved in Armor: Cover, Absorption, and Toughness. I would think that for primitive technologies, the mass of this would be something like "(Cover + Absorption + Toughness) times 20% of Carying Capacity = armor mass," and that for advanced technologies it might be something like "(Cover + Absorption + Toughness) times 10% of Carying Capacity = armor mass."

Here's an empirical approach: For midieval armor divide the mass by the cover bonus and get a "mass per Cvr" value. Then we can divide that by the weight of a large man (100 kg) and get an estimate of the weight per cover for any species (based on that species' upper weight limit.) Modern high-tech armor may be 1% better, and some vital areas of the body require less material to cover and still give a +1 bonus. (For example a titanium chest plate that covers my heart could have +1 cover and +5 absorption, but only weigh 2 or 3 kg.)

Armor Type  mass/Cvr  Abs  Tgh
Padded       1% /Cvr   1    2
Leather      2% /Cvr   2    3
Scale        4% /Cvr   3    3
Chainmail    3% /Cvr   3    3
Brigandine   5% /Cvr   4    3
Lamellar     4% /Cvr   4    4
Plate        5% /Cvr   5    4

The "ideal" formula for the armor's mass is the wearer's mass times the cover and absorption of the armor, divided by 100. Padded, Leather, Chainmail, Lamellar and Plate approach this ideal. Scale and Brigandine are a little less efficient, but they are inexpensive and just as useful in many situations. Toughness is more an economics issue (how much do I want to invest in this much armor?) --SerpLord 14:38, 11 September 2006 (PDT)

We might not want hard and fast rules for weapons, but we might give a "general guidline" of five levels less than it's power bonus.

If the weapon is mace-like (maximum power, minimum mass) then it could be a whole size level lighter. If the weapon is fist-like (minimum power, maximum mass) it could be a size level heavier. In other words a 1 kg mace has at least as much impact as a 3 kg sword. There is also variation within families of weapons. A sword with a +3 power bonus is not balanced the same as a sword with a +2 power bonus. --SerpLord 14:38, 11 September 2006 (PDT)

Boiler Plate for MaM "Design"

Some adventures are a sequence of challenges like an obstacle course. However, players often want to be able to try anything they want with their characters, so an engaging environment for the characters to freely adventure in - letting the story develop naturally - is usually better than forcing players to follow a story line.

For example, if the PCs are likely to end up fighting in a village market, the GM should have a village market combat map prepared. (Instead, the GM may choose to have a blank sheet of Hex Paper, and use "pieces" to show where various Village Market obstacles are on the hex paper.) The more specific the location, the more important it is for the GM to have a specific map prepared. The GM may also have a selection of general terrain maps, for conflicts that take place in general types of areas, instead of taking place in very specific locations.

You will need one piece for every important character in the game. You will also need a piece for every significant object in the game, which is not already part of a combat map. (By significant object, I mean any visible object that the players are likely to interact with. For example, if there is a discarded spear the players are supposed to find out in the open, it would be best to have a piece for that spear, if it is not part of a map.)

After studying this tutorial, these should be all the reference materials the GM and players need to play the game. Some of the pages can help players create their PCs, others are designed only for the GM's use.