Difference between revisions of "One Simple Thing"

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(Added "The Story" entry)
(Added OST#4, The Rules)
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I honestly don't think '''anyone''' disagreed with the spirit of what I was saying here.  A whole bunch of people very strongly wanted to talk about what the word "story" meant in this context, and whether I was talking about a literary story, or a journalistic story, or just the sort of story even atoms make when they mate and cling.  I didn't want to get into that, said I didn't want to get into that, and then we had a great big furball about whether I was allowed to not want to get into that.  Some people argue that the point doesn't hold water apart from the semantics.  My position is that it does.
 
I honestly don't think '''anyone''' disagreed with the spirit of what I was saying here.  A whole bunch of people very strongly wanted to talk about what the word "story" meant in this context, and whether I was talking about a literary story, or a journalistic story, or just the sort of story even atoms make when they mate and cling.  I didn't want to get into that, said I didn't want to get into that, and then we had a great big furball about whether I was allowed to not want to get into that.  Some people argue that the point doesn't hold water apart from the semantics.  My position is that it does.
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=== The Rules ===
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Original post and 47 pages of discussion, [http://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?t=239022 here].
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:The Rules: Most people play RPGs in groups of two or more. Any time you get people together, they are going to be thinking and wanting different things. To help them know how what they are thinking fits with what others are thinking, any group, doing anything, anywhere, ever, will have rules. Some of these rules are stated ("Thou shalt not kill") and some of them aren't ("Jerry's rich, so he pays for the pizza"). Get a group together with no rules at all and they will start making some. It is a human instinct.
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:RPG groups have rules. Some of them come from a rule-book ("The GM has authority to speak for NPCs"). Some of them don't ("We are trying to tell a heroic story about good people"). Some of them are spoken and some of them are not. If you abide by those rules, you will expect other people to abide by them too. After all, they owe you. But here's the thing: the rules that aren't spoken? You don't know whether everyone has agreed to those rules. And those are usually the most important ones.
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:Let's take a common situation: You think there is a rule ("Don't kill another guy's character") and you abide by that rule faithfully ("Oooh, I could get the Gem of Amotto ... but I'd have to break the rule, so I won't.") It turns out that other people at the table do not know anything about that rule, and would not agree to it if asked. That becomes clear when your friend violates the rule, without even thinking about it. You may feel betrayed and cheated. You may feel that your friend knew full well that you were playing by those rules, took advantage of it when it was to his benefit, then screwed you when he felt like it. You may feel that this person is not a good person, not a good friend.
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:But, of course, you would be mistaken. Your friend has not betrayed you. They do not owe you anything for having obeyed the rule. They never agreed to the rule. They can not be blamed for not knowing what nobody ever said. Human beings do not come equipped with ESP. We come equipped with vocal cords instead. Talking about these things, early, is more fun than sulking about them later. But nobody wants to spend eight hours talking about all sorts of stuff that they do agree on, just to find the one thing that (surprise!) they don't. That is why it is so essential what the rules in the rule-book are. That's a huge packet of rules that everyone can agree to, all at once. If you count on that, and count on nothing else, you won't think you were betrayed when you were really just confused.
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Nobody seemed to disagree with the general advice:  Talk to each other.  It was the details everyone got stuck up on.  Many people fought for their right to be judgmental:  to come into a situation with the belief that they were right and the other guy was wrong, and that was '''important''', and all that.  Specifically:
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:* There was a sizable camp of people who said that competitive, PvP play was wrong, wrong, wrong ... a violation of what they believed to be a moral imperative to play RPGs in a cooperative way, just as it's been since the early days of D&D.  Heh.
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:* There was a more moderate camp of folks who conceded that competitive play was a legitimate style, but argued that it wasn't '''as legitimate''' as cooperative play, because more people play cooperative.  So they argued that cooperation was the default, and anyone who wanted to play competitive was obligated to raise the issue, or else play cooperative without being asked.
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:* And then there were the folks who felt that almost any combination of things could be perfectly legitimate, but once two people '''had a problem''' then somebody obviously had to be wrong so that the other guy could be right.  So whenever I said 'breaking an unwritten rule isn't wrong' they heard me as saying 'the guys who '''relied''' upon the unwritten rule must be in the wrong.'  No matter how often I said 'Nobody is in the wrong in this situation' it didn't seem to stick.
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Anyway, fun, fun discussion.  For what it's worth, the thing I had most fun contributing to the thread was a fictitious [http://forum.rpg.net/showpost.php?p=5168376&postcount=307 conversation] between two people who both had the best of intentions, but who gradually came to assume the worst of each other because they wouldn't grasp the idea that the other guy '''also''' had the best of intentions.  Ironic, that.

Revision as of 09:57, 25 January 2006

What the hey. We've got a Wiki. I'll archive.

These are the records of the One Simple Thing series of posts. In those posts I tried to use simple words and phrases to get across points of theory that are (to me) important and useful. Was it successful? There's evidence before you, go and judge for yourself.

My Guy

Original posts, and 40 pages of discussion, here.

My Guy: In RPGs you can play a guy (or a girl, or a wombat). This guy is not real. He does not have a brain, or a heart, or courage. You pretend he has these things. He can not make you do things, because you are real, and he is not.
You make this guy, in your mind. So it's cool for you to want him to act one way, and not want him to act some other way. After all, you made him. All you need to say is "I want My Guy to be brave," and your friends will say "Cool!"
But if you say "I can't have My Guy run away, that's not who he is ... I have no choice," then you are wrong. You do have a choice. You could choose to have him run away. Now maybe you really don't want him to run and (see above) that's cool. Maybe if he runs away then you can't have fun playing any more. That would stink. But if you mean "I won't" then you should not say "I can't." That is just not true. Your friends know it is not true, because they are not dumb. If you lie to your friends it pisses them off, even more than they were pissed off in the first place because you would not run away from a great big troll and all their guys got killed dead.

People who disagreed with this post did so by contending that the words "real", "can't" and "lie" were used in arguable ways. Notably:

  • Just because something has no physical reality doesn't mean that you can say it's "not real"
  • If having your guy run away would, in that action, mean that you are no longer roleplaying then you "can't" have him run away within the context of roleplaying, because doing so takes you out of that context
  • Lie can connote intentional deceit, as opposed to just untruth. Even after it was made clear that this was not the intent, argument continued around whether the word should have been used, and whether it was an attack to use it.

Boredom

Original posts, and 9 pages of discussion (does that mean I'm getting better?) here.

Boredom: Some people like one thing, some people like another. When someone gets what they like, it makes them excited. When they get something else it often makes them bored. Even if they get something that someone else would really, really like, it can be boring to them. RPGs are games. We want to avoid the boring bits.
I have heard people say "Well, we have to pay attention to this boring bit in order to get to the fun stuff." They are mistaken. If it's really just boring stuff on the way to your fun then you can skip it, and nobody will mind, because it's boring. Realism, continuity, character integrity, fairness, conflict, challenge and many more things are of this type: they only matter if somebody at the table decides they matter. If they don't matter? Skip them and make more time for exciting stuff.
If your group knows this truth, but still won't skip some part of the game then that tells you something. It tells you that somebody finds it interesting. They may even need that thing in order to get excited. If you find something boring, but somebody else needs it in order to get excited, then at least one of you will be bored most of the time. That is a bad thing. It is also very common when you grab a group of players at random. Maybe it would be better not to grab groups of players at random. If you know what you like, and can say it, then you can find players who like the same thing. Then you can all skip the boring bits together. That is a good thing.

People who disagreed with this post seemed mostly to think that it was too prescriptive (reading "that is a good thing" for "that should be your foremost goal", no matter how much I told them not to). Notably:

  • There are circumstances in which you might choose to be bored because it had other redeeming values, like making your friend feel good. Of course.
  • Some people argued that there are circumstances in which the boring stuff is required in order to have the exciting stuff be exciting, and therefore it is too limiting to recommend skipping the boring stuff. Having talked with them about it in the thread, I still believe this to be unfounded.

For the most part, however, people simply accepted this one as obviously true, and started talking about how to achieve the communication that lets you know what people are excited about and aim for that.

The Story

Original posts, and 10 pages of discussion, here.

The Story: When people play an RPG they tell a story. Everyone who plays adds something to the story. Unless you have a tape recorder running, that story, as it is told right that second, can only ever be heard if you are there right that second.
When a player talks about the game later she is not doing the same thing she did to tell the story the first time. She is retelling the story. The story she tells is a second story inspired by the first. In retelling the story, she will reveal what she thought was important about the first story. If she thinks that the fights were the important thing then she will tell a second story with all the action and none of the in-between. If she thinks that the way the characters related to each other between the fights was the important thing then she will tell a second story with a lot of talking, and very little fighting. Those are both true retellings of the first story, but neither of them is the first story.
When someone, before the session is played, says that he knows what story the group is going to tell, he is not talking about the first story. He is saying that he could already tell you the second story that he will tell after the session. He is saying that he has control over all the things that he will later find important enough to retell. Or, put another way, he is saying that the things he doesn't have control over will not be important enough to make it into a retelling.
This is not the same as knowing that some elements will appear in the first story. Say I prepare a plot with a dark evil that must be destroyed (or the world ends) buried behind seven doors, and each door can only be opened by passing a certain test in a certain way. Do I know, before playing that game, what the story will be? Only if I would choose, in retelling the story, to talk about that evil, those doors and their tests. If I would choose to talk about the things that the other players had their characters do in response to those tests, and how it brought them together (or drove them apart) as a group, then I don't know anything about the story, going in. The only way I can find out what that story will be is for the other players to tell me.

I honestly don't think anyone disagreed with the spirit of what I was saying here. A whole bunch of people very strongly wanted to talk about what the word "story" meant in this context, and whether I was talking about a literary story, or a journalistic story, or just the sort of story even atoms make when they mate and cling. I didn't want to get into that, said I didn't want to get into that, and then we had a great big furball about whether I was allowed to not want to get into that. Some people argue that the point doesn't hold water apart from the semantics. My position is that it does.


The Rules

Original post and 47 pages of discussion, here.

The Rules: Most people play RPGs in groups of two or more. Any time you get people together, they are going to be thinking and wanting different things. To help them know how what they are thinking fits with what others are thinking, any group, doing anything, anywhere, ever, will have rules. Some of these rules are stated ("Thou shalt not kill") and some of them aren't ("Jerry's rich, so he pays for the pizza"). Get a group together with no rules at all and they will start making some. It is a human instinct.
RPG groups have rules. Some of them come from a rule-book ("The GM has authority to speak for NPCs"). Some of them don't ("We are trying to tell a heroic story about good people"). Some of them are spoken and some of them are not. If you abide by those rules, you will expect other people to abide by them too. After all, they owe you. But here's the thing: the rules that aren't spoken? You don't know whether everyone has agreed to those rules. And those are usually the most important ones.
Let's take a common situation: You think there is a rule ("Don't kill another guy's character") and you abide by that rule faithfully ("Oooh, I could get the Gem of Amotto ... but I'd have to break the rule, so I won't.") It turns out that other people at the table do not know anything about that rule, and would not agree to it if asked. That becomes clear when your friend violates the rule, without even thinking about it. You may feel betrayed and cheated. You may feel that your friend knew full well that you were playing by those rules, took advantage of it when it was to his benefit, then screwed you when he felt like it. You may feel that this person is not a good person, not a good friend.
But, of course, you would be mistaken. Your friend has not betrayed you. They do not owe you anything for having obeyed the rule. They never agreed to the rule. They can not be blamed for not knowing what nobody ever said. Human beings do not come equipped with ESP. We come equipped with vocal cords instead. Talking about these things, early, is more fun than sulking about them later. But nobody wants to spend eight hours talking about all sorts of stuff that they do agree on, just to find the one thing that (surprise!) they don't. That is why it is so essential what the rules in the rule-book are. That's a huge packet of rules that everyone can agree to, all at once. If you count on that, and count on nothing else, you won't think you were betrayed when you were really just confused.

Nobody seemed to disagree with the general advice: Talk to each other. It was the details everyone got stuck up on. Many people fought for their right to be judgmental: to come into a situation with the belief that they were right and the other guy was wrong, and that was important, and all that. Specifically:

  • There was a sizable camp of people who said that competitive, PvP play was wrong, wrong, wrong ... a violation of what they believed to be a moral imperative to play RPGs in a cooperative way, just as it's been since the early days of D&D. Heh.
  • There was a more moderate camp of folks who conceded that competitive play was a legitimate style, but argued that it wasn't as legitimate as cooperative play, because more people play cooperative. So they argued that cooperation was the default, and anyone who wanted to play competitive was obligated to raise the issue, or else play cooperative without being asked.
  • And then there were the folks who felt that almost any combination of things could be perfectly legitimate, but once two people had a problem then somebody obviously had to be wrong so that the other guy could be right. So whenever I said 'breaking an unwritten rule isn't wrong' they heard me as saying 'the guys who relied upon the unwritten rule must be in the wrong.' No matter how often I said 'Nobody is in the wrong in this situation' it didn't seem to stick.

Anyway, fun, fun discussion. For what it's worth, the thing I had most fun contributing to the thread was a fictitious conversation between two people who both had the best of intentions, but who gradually came to assume the worst of each other because they wouldn't grasp the idea that the other guy also had the best of intentions. Ironic, that.