Editing Session 80

Random_Nerd: Okay.  When we last ended, you'd more or less asked Barakiel for a time-out to go to neutral corners and confer.<br>
Random_Nerd: Any objections to starting the first scene back in the PCs' rooms?<br>
Eve: Not at all.<br>
Brian: sure<br>
DanteE: OK<br>
Theresa: Sounds good.<br>
Random_Nerd: The rooms you're in are quiet.  Calm.  Not particularly similar to Hell in any visual way.  And contain no irate angels.<br>
Random_Nerd: These are the features of them which seem most obvious at the moment.<br>
Brian: (I presume __START__?)<br>
Random_Nerd: __________________START_______________<br>
DanteE: "All those eyes and he doesn't see..."<br>
Brian: "... that could've gone better"<br>
Theresa: "I think they have been working on this problem for centuries."<br>
DanteE: "Will concede one point, though.  Something dramatic would have to happen in the next ... 10 months? ... to turn the war around.<br>
Brian: "It will.  Don't worry."<br>
Brian: (do I have a plan?  Nope.  Can I see the future?  Nope.  Still, don't worry :p)<br>
Random_Nerd: (Yes, ten months, or a bit less.)<br>
Theresa: "Wars are usually long drawn-out things.  Stuff like the atom bomb ending WWII so quickly is an anomaly...and I'm not comforting, am I?"<br>
DanteE: "But... if this continues...<br>
DanteE: "If the war continues, that would mean a slow trickle of Domains away from us to ... Them ...<br>
Brian: "We still don't actually know what's truly going on"<br>
DanteE: "The world we know just going away piece by piece.  At what point would Hope disappear?"<br>
DanteE: ...<br>
Brian: "If we want to win this, we need to know what they're really after, and why"<br>
DanteE: "His plan would eventually be a 3-pronged attack against first Numbers, then Courage, and finally Hope.   Are we sure he's an angel?"<br>
Theresa: "Which them?"<br>
Brian: "The Excrucians, of course"<br>
Theresa: (I missed the attack against Numbers...)<br>
DanteE: (Eliminating Ananda eliminates the significance of the year 5000.)<br>
Theresa: (Huh.)<br>
Theresa: "Well, just because he's an Angel, doesn't mean he's _nice_.  And I think accusing him of being a Mimic will probably get us thrown in front of Entropy."<br>
Eve: (And Hope and Courage?  Sorry if I'm being dense.)<br>
DanteE: "Suddenly Kudzu's characterization of this makes sense... which is bizarre in itself."<br>
Brian: "If we stay in this Age, we'll lose the war.  Of that I 'm convinced.  We can't let Ananda die."<br>
DanteE: (If the war goes on, eventually the fighters lose their fighting spirit... and if domains keep disappearing, Hope will eventually go away.  Not to mention the possibility of just plain getting Excruciated.)<br>
Theresa: "I'm not sure the War will go away if the Age shifts over.  I mean, the Fall is still active."<br>
Brian: "No, but it's the only way we can win"<br>
DanteE: "Hm...<br>
DanteE: "Come to think of it, eliminating Ananda might just _be_ the event that ends the age"<br>
* Eve uncrosses and recrosses her legs, staring off into space. "Every time Creation has changed in some fundamental way, the Age has turned... This has brought new suffering, but also new beauty..."<br>
DanteE: "It'd be big enough"<br>
Brian: "That's what I'm thinking, Dante.  Or, dreading anyway."<br>
Eve: "I told Barakiel as much, you might recall.  He didn't seem quite convinced."<br>
Theresa: "There have only been a couple of Ages.  I'd say the sample size is a bit low to be speculating."<br>
Theresa: "I suspect that Barakiel is narrowly focused on his own plans.  It'll take an industrial chisel to pry him off of them."<br>
Eve: "I think the Age will turn, regardless of the trigger...  But what triggers it may color the age to come.  Yet Theresa is right.  We simply cannot know for sure."<br>
Brian: "We cannot let Ananda die, or (his?) Domains will definitely rule the next Age.  If it starts with murder..."<br>
DanteE: "Ah... that doesn't quite make sense..."<br>
Brian: "It does if you twist your mind around a bit."<br>
Theresa: "Why don't we look at what has colored each age?  Had there been people already trying to stop or change the color before each reboot, like Barakiel said he was trying with attempting to prevent the Fall?"<br>
Eve: (I can use Realm from outside the Chancel, right?  It's been a while sincve I tried.)<br>
Eve: (That is, to divine something that's in-Chancel.)<br>
Random_Nerd: (You can, but it only works in-chancel.)<br>
Random_Nerd: (Yeah, you can do that.)<br>
Brian: "What happens when an Imperator dies?  Not Excruciated, just, dead.  It's happened before, right?  Don't their Domains just shift and warp and come back in someone else?"<br>
Random_Nerd: (Their estates die.)<br>
Random_Nerd: (Sometimes if a noble survives, they can get spliced into another Imperator.)<br>
Theresa: (Unless someone eats the Imperator's heart or such?)<br>
Random_Nerd: (But that's a rare occurance.)<br>
Brian: (I'm fairly sure I read that if they die, then their Estates may persist in a not-quite-right version of it)<br>
* Eve sends her awareness into herself, reaching from her heart to the Realm's Heart to the Windy Library, and listens to anything it will tell her on the Most Ancient Lord.<br>
DanteE: "Hm... Ananda dies, Infinity dies, the Fourth Age dies... and Murder disappears."<br>
Eve: (That's if they're turned into a Mimic.)<br>
Random_Nerd: (I believe the estates only persist as estates if the Rite of Rescue gets done.)<br>
Random_Nerd: (And yes, I think Etheric is correct there.  One moment, on the Most Ancient Lord bit.)<br>
Eve: (Of course.)<br>
DanteE: "Is there a Noble of the Fourth Age?"<br>
Random_Nerd: (In this game setting, Ananda does not yet have Nobles.)<br>
Brian: (I'm convinced I read something about their Estates shifting and becoming part of another Imperator, but not the same, like Guns might be subsumed into Weapons, or Weapons get split into the types, but the concepts don't actually disappear unless Excruciated)<br>
Random_Nerd: (This may not be true in out-of-game canon.)<br>
Random_Nerd: (Well, that's what /happens/ when an estate dies.)<br>
Random_Nerd: (If there are overlapping estates, the overlapped bits can stay.)<br>
Brian: (So, by that logic, Fourth Age will persist in /some/ form unless Ananda is Excruciated, at which point, are we better than them?)<br>
DanteE: "Hm... can we convince Barakiel his plan just won't work?"<br>
Brian: "I obviously can't."<br>
Random_Nerd: (Great.  I can't recall where the Most Ancient Lord is in the Nobilis book, and I haven't come up with anything about him for this game.)<br>
DanteE: (Isn't he in the index?)<br>
Random_Nerd: (Turns out no, at least, not under Imperators.)<br>
Theresa: (He's the first True God of Earth.)<br>
Random_Nerd: (Huh.  Why was I thinking Darklord?)<br>
DanteE: (Oh, I know him.  Wrinkly guy, receding dark grey hair.  Imperator of Cable Channels, Interviews, and Suspenders. :D )<br>
Random_Nerd: (I don't really have any game-canon for him, and I'm not even sure if he's an Imperator in this game, or rather if he was one.  Why do you want to know about him?)<br>
Eve: (Because one of his Estates was the First Age.)<br>
Theresa: (How could he be the Imperator of the First Age if he was born about 200 years into it?)<br>
Random_Nerd: (Ah, okay.)<br>
Eve: (Granted, he was Excruciated after his Age was long over...)<br>
Eve: (But it still might offer insight on the likely effect of killing Ananda.)<br>
Random_Nerd: (It's magic.  A wizard did it.  And as for the stuff on the Most Ancient Lord, would you mind if I took until next session to answer that stuff?  Since he's tied up to the ages thing, I need to think about how to handle this.)<br>
Eve: (And I don't know how exactly that works, Beth, but that's what the book says.)<br>
Eve: (Sure, I don't mind.)<br>
DanteE: (OK, who was Imperator of the 2nd age?)<br>
Theresa: (Ah, okay.  :)  RN has the book, so I can't look.)<br>
Random_Nerd: (Some girl imperator.  I forget her name, but it had a hyphen, I think.)<br>
Eve: (Rather wait for a good answer than get an ill-considered one.)<br>
Eve: (Isn't she the Third Age?)<br>
Eve: (Second I thought was Jan ben Jan.)<br>
Eve: (Hold on, I'm going to find my book.)<br>
Random_Nerd: (Oh, perhaps she is the Third Age.)<br>
Theresa: (Imperatrix Attaris reveals herself as Magister of the Wild Attaris Ebrôt Appêka. The fallen Angel Ebrôt Appêka turns to dust. )<br>
DanteE: (BTW, I put my 2nd copy of the GWB on eBay)<br>
Random_Nerd: ("...and the collected Nobles and Imperators go 'wha-huh?' "<br>
Theresa: (And then said Nobles and Imperators go "Oh, yeah, _Wildlord_, duh.")<br>
Random_Nerd: (Okay, now, here's the general this-game canon as to what happens when an Imperator dies.)<br>
Random_Nerd: (Normally, their estates die.  If there's overlap with other estates, the overlapping things still exist, but are changed.  Say, if the Power of Weapons dies, and there's a Power of Guns, then guns become just things to shoot at paper targets with.)<br>
Random_Nerd: (There is a tiny chance that one or more of their Nobles (if they had any) is still alive, and still has their soul-shard.)<br>
Random_Nerd: (This is rare.  But if it's the case, they can be 'adopted' by another Imperator and have their Estate persist.  if they aren't adopted, they soon either die or lose their Nobility, as that little bit of Imperator they have can't survivie without being connected to a living one.)<br>
Theresa: (I shudder to think if what would happen if Kudzu dies...there'll just be 'chlorophyllic organisms'...)<br>
Random_Nerd: (The effects of losing an estate in this way is about the same as the Excrucians taking it, save that in this case, the Excrucians don't take it outside the Wall, it just dies and nobody gets it.)<br>
DanteE: (well, if you survive, and you get to another Imperator _fast_...)<br>
Random_Nerd: (Some of this is straight from the book, some is clarified, a few bits are new parts to explain how it works.  Any questions about this?)<br>
Theresa: (No questions.  Just don't want it to happen.)<br>
Random_Nerd: (Oh.  And Estates of Ages are... kinda weird, as Estates go, and don't seem to always work the same way.  For instance, you can have a living Imperator of an estate that isn't instantiated yet, which otherwise wouldn't work.)<br>
Brian: (ok)<br>
Theresa: (Like how Ananda is the Imperator of an age that doesn't exist yet?)<br>
Random_Nerd: (Yes.)<br>
Random_Nerd: (Imperators who get asked why this is tend to either say that they don't know, or say "my theory goes like" and then rant incomprehensibly for two hours while gesticulating and drawing diagrams on the chalkboard that seem to move when you aren't looking.)<br>
Brian: (*nod*)<br>
Brian: "So, how are we going to convince him his plan won't work?  He seems rather tunnel-visioned at the moment."<br>
Random_Nerd: (And I have some ideas of how they work and why, but I'm working on the details still.)<br>
DanteE: "He's tunnel-visioned because he's seen too many of his friends die."<br>
Theresa: (So the first Age was Most Ancient Lord, second was...a Wildlord?  Third is...I dunno who.  And Fourth is Ananda.  And I think it's interesting that the Wildlords showed up about halfway inbetween Ages.)<br>
Theresa: "Survivors' Guilt?"<br>
Random_Nerd: (Oh, and one more thing about dead Imperators.  The Excrucians, if they get their hands on a fresh one, can {depending how much time they have} either turn it into a mimic, or turn it into a full Excrucian.)<br>
DanteE: "Hm... we should ask Consequences if Barakiel can see beyond the machinations of Nobles.  Consequences can't..."<br>
Random_Nerd: (If they do the latter, they get the estates of the dead one as if they'd excruciated them)<br>
DanteE: (Which would mean, if there's a spy there after the execution, they could grab the body... and the Fourth Age would belong to the Excrucians)<br>
Random_Nerd: (Yep.  That would be... bad.)<br>
Brian: yahuh.<br>
DanteE: (Sooooo... the main thing keeping the hope of the Fourth Age together... is Ananda)<br>
Random_Nerd: (You can take it as given that your characters know this stuff, unless you don't want them to.  It's plausible stuff for them to have read up on in downtime.)<br>
Random_Nerd: (Well, what do you mean by "the hope of the Fourth Age"?)<br>
Brian: (I like Brian's way of looking at it as is :))<br>
DanteE: (whatever you want me to mean! :) )<br>
Random_Nerd: (Well, Ananda is the only one holding together the /anything/ of the Fourth Age.)<br>
Random_Nerd: (Since it's one of his estates, and he doesn't have Nobles.)<br>
Random_Nerd: (And I think that book-Ananda may have Nobles, but mine doesn't.)<br>
DanteE: (Which means, as long as Ananda exists, there _will be_ a Fourth Age.)<br>
Random_Nerd: (Yep, it does mean that.)<br>
Brian: "Um ... guys, I just thought of something?  What if killing Ananda doesn't stop the age turning, just that it turns, and there's no Fourth Age?  Like, maybe skips to Fifth, maybe stops existing altogether?"<br>
DanteE: (Ananda's existence means the Excrucians _won't_ win)<br>
Random_Nerd: (That, however, is a leap.)<br>
Random_Nerd: (Nothing says that the Fourth Age won't be /better/ for them.)<br>
Brian: (*nod*)<br>
DanteE: (Where's Ananda come from?)<br>
DanteE: *Where'd<br>
Brian: (*points to the IC text* ... anyone going to reply?)<br>
Random_Nerd: (Ananda's imperator type is not known.  He just showed up one day.)<br>
Theresa: (Or what type?)<br>
Theresa: "Well, either it just stays the Third Age or it skips to the Fifth or existence ends.  No one likes a Null Error."<br>
DanteE: "That's kinda your department, isn't it Brian?"<br>
Brian: "So, we can stay in the Third Age and slowly lose the war, skip to the Fifth, and thus an age turn happens anyway and the plan fails, or existence ends, and we don't care anymore.  Right?"<br>
Brian: "Dante, not really.  It's more logic flow stuff than what I cover."<br>
Theresa: "Why the assumption that we lose the war?"<br>
DanteE: "Well, how much sense would it make for the Third Age to be followed by the Fifth?<br>
DanteE: "If that's just plain impossible, that kills Barakiel's plan"<br>
Brian: "It would if, say, the number four no longer exists."<br>
Random_Nerd: (Perhaps they should kill Brian first!)<br>
Brian: "But, have you ever tried to add two and two in a universe where 4 doesn't exist?  I have ... it's not pretty..."<br>
Random_Nerd: (Nice number line you got here.  Shame if something were to... happen... to it.)<br>
* Brian has a haunted look, like remembering an all-nighter trying to figure that out<br>
DanteE: "Got it.  If we can show that the coming of the Fourth Age is independent of the existence of Ananda, it'll stop Barakiel."<br>
DanteE: "And--in theory--Ananda's presence means we have some control as to how the age turns out."<br>
Theresa: "But then the question becomes...how?"<br>
Brian: "Um.  Not really.  The coming of /an/ Age, I suspect is independent of Ananda.  the coming of /that/ age is dependent."<br>
DanteE: "We lose Ananda we cede control."<br>
Theresa: "He could just be lying, like the Fallen Angel -> Wildlord Imperator."<br>
Random_Nerd: (How does Ananda's presence give you some kind of control?)<br>
Brian: (not necessarily control, but knowledge, anyway)<br>
DanteE: (It's always good to have someone you can yell at. :) )<br>
Brian: (no Ananda = something completely off the radar)<br>
DanteE: (possibly even Excrucian)<br>
Theresa: (What would one call an Excrucian Imperator of the 4th Age?)<br>
DanteE: (The End)<br>
Random_Nerd: ("Sir.")<br>
DanteE: "But how do we convince Barakiel?<br>
Brian: "Frankly, if we kill Ananda, I suspect the universe will just yell at us in some way or another, and we'll all have a twisting sensation as if being turned inside out, with bits lightyears apart.  Then, finally, after that horrible moment has passed, we'll find we're in the Fifth Age, and bad things have happened in the Age-that-never-was."<br>
Theresa: (Ah, see, obviously, Kudzu is the Mimic Imperator of the Fourth Age and Barakiel is all that stands in the way between him and Control over the Entire Age!)<br>
DanteE: "This may all mean nothing if he won't listen.<br>
DanteE: "I've got it.<br>
Theresa: "I'm not sure how much he even listens to 'lesser beings' even if they are Nobles."<br>
DanteE: "Well, he doesn't like demons... treated Lesson like a ping-pong ball."<br>
DanteE: "The Third Age has been marked by The War.  The War he's lost several friends to...<br>
DanteE: "If we can convince him that the turning of the age ensures the War will _end_, and his plan means it will continue forever...?"<br>
DanteE: "... how much are the Third Age and the War linked?"<br>
Theresa: "Dunno."  *looks at Eve*  "Eve, are you still connected to the LIbrary?"<br>
DanteE: (Eve, you connected to us? :) )<br>
DanteE: (Idle for 41 minutes.  I'm thinking No."<br>
DanteE: "=)<br>
Theresa: (Darn.)<br>
Random_Nerd: (Yeah, looks like.)<br>
Theresa: (Okay, hmm...Brian has the Heart as well, true?)<br>
Brian: (*nodnod*)<br>
Theresa: "Brian, could you ask the Library about the War vs the Age?)<br>
Brian: "Sure thing"<br>
Brian: (I do so)<br>
Random_Nerd: "The connection between the Great War and the Third Age is not clear.  The War began slightly before the beginning of the Third Age, and has continued through all of it to date.  The only partially analagous example available is that of the Celestial War, which began eleven years before the end of the First Age, but ended one year before it."<br>
* Brian will repeat<br>
Random_Nerd: "Various theories are held as to how to interpret the available information."<br>
Random_Nerd: (Remember, the Library can't hear you.  It's a matter of you focusing on which of the existing streams of whispers is talking about what you want to know about.)<br>
Random_Nerd: (But your level of Domain is enough to do the divinations needed to do that from where you are.)<br>
DanteE: "Hm."<br>
Random_Nerd: (I'm just syaing this because you mentioned asking it.)<br>
DanteE: "What prompted the actual age end?"<br>
Theresa: (Ah, sorry.  Thank you for the clarification.)<br>
Random_Nerd: (Are you asking Brian that, or who?)<br>
Brian: "um..."  *focuses on age end*<br>
DanteE: (the room)<br>
Random_Nerd: "It's unclear how the causal relations work with the ending of the age.  Did the various Falls occur because of the end of the age, or did it occur because of them?  Similarly, does the death and rebirth of the Phoenix Family cause the end of the age, or indicate it?  Imperators of the Ages, the only ones likely to know, have not made these facts known."<br>
DanteE: "The Phoenix... of course.<br>
DanteE: "The Phoenix and Ananda are two separate people.  The Phoenix probably doesn't even know who Ananda is.<br>
Theresa: "Brian, can you find anything more on the Phoenix family?"<br>
DanteE: "If the Phoenix does, all losing Ananda would have done is cede control."<br>
Brian: "I can find out anything for you"  *smile*<br>
* Brian listens in on the Phoenix<br>
Random_Nerd: "The members of the Phoenix family are Phoenix<br>
Random_Nerd: (Err, let me finish that...)<br>
Random_Nerd: ...Phoensa, and Corruna.  They are children of an Old God.  Their death and rebirth heralds the end of an age."<br>
Theresa: (Holy crap, the Phoenix family is about 5320 years old now!  They lasted ~150 years the first time, 2000 years the second and now...wow, wrinkles.)<br>
DanteE: "Is the Old God still around?)<br>
Random_Nerd: "It is not known which God was the father of the Phoenix Family, but it is likely that he or she died around the end of the First Age."<br>
Theresa: "So, if we wanted to start an age but not involve Ananda, one might just go out and kill three supernatural beings and hope they reboot."<br>
DanteE: "Suddenly I'm getting this image of Dr. Who as the Phoenix. <br>
DanteE: "What killed him last time?"<br>
Theresa: "Dr. Who?  I don't know, what number is he up to now?"<br>
Brian: "Five?"<br>
DanteE: "10, I think"<br>
Theresa: "Oh, that's a thought.  What kills the Phoenix family each time?"<br>
Brian: "Um.... I'll see if we have anything."  (*listens in first on the number of Dr. Whos there've been, and then what killed the Phoenix Family*)<br>
Random_Nerd: (Kudzu seems not to have included information on how many Doctors there have been in the Library.)<br>
Brian: "We don't have the number of Dr.s"<br>
Theresa: (He's probably more of a Twin Peaks fan anyhow.)<br>
Random_Nerd: "The Phoenix family, at the end of the age, each immerse themselves in their own elements, die, and are reborn again."<br>
Brian: "Hm.  I wonder how they know when to do that?  Um, we should probably get in contact with them somehow.  William, do the Aides have contact with the Phoenix family?"<br>
Random_Nerd: William sits up.<br>
Random_Nerd: W: "The Phoenix Family tend to keep to themselves.  I'm not even sure where they are now.  They're omens.  Omens tend not to leave a forwarding address."<br>
Brian: "Have any idea how we could find them?"<br>
Theresa: (Are they protected like Nobles or Anchors?)<br>
Random_Nerd: W: "Do something amazing.  Sometimes they show up when something amazing happens."<br>
Random_Nerd: (They have an anchor-like immunity, and perhaps a minor auctoritas.)<br>
DanteE: (OK, hang on while I lick my elbow... :) )<br>
Brian: "Amazing ... like convince an Angel that he's wrong?  Or amazing like win the war?"<br>
Theresa: (We're telling a major Angel he's wrong about killing off one of the Council of Four (and not even the one everyone wants dead) and that's not amazing?)<br>
Random_Nerd: "Amazing like defeat a full Excrucian in a fair duel."<br>
Random_Nerd: "So, in between."<br>
Theresa: "Ah.  No guarantee of surviving the duel."<br>
DanteE: "We should probably stick to the immediate problem..."<br>
Random_Nerd: W: "But if you want to guarantee at least one of them showing up, do something that'll make the universe itself sit back and take notice."<br>
Theresa: "I thought Nobles were doing that every day?"<br>
Brian: "Hm.  I could delete the number four.  That would save us some problems right now, too..."<br>
Theresa: (I know!  I shall kiss Entropy on the lips!)<br>
Theresa: "Nobles in charge of buildings and more will kill you, Brian.  Squares and so forth."<br>
DanteE: "You're going to do something amazing enough to attract a Phoenix, then ask him when and how he's gonna die?"<br>
Brian: "And that's why killing Ananda is a bad thing, T!"<br>
Random_Nerd: W: "Well, we know when.  December 21st."<br>
DanteE: "hm?"<br>
Theresa: "Stupid question, I know, but how and why do you know when?"<br>
Random_Nerd: W: "That's when the age is due to end.  Or begin, depending how you look at it."<br>
Random_Nerd: W: "Or, at least, what it translates to in Earth time."<br>
DanteE: "Any chance that'll actually happen in 6000?"<br>
Random_Nerd: (I figure, in order to get the timeline right, we're putting on some real dates.  Shall we say it is currently February 13, 2007, 4999 Age of Pain?)<br>
Theresa: "I thought Ages were somewhat random in ending.  Like how this age has been going on for about 5300 years..."<br>
Theresa: (Hey it's V-Day tomorrow!  Let's go sing love songs under Entropy's window!)<br>
Random_Nerd: W: "We're pretty sure it's ending then.  I don't know why, but I know that people I trust to have the answer right have said so."<br>
Brian: (... oh no, Brian's going to think of some stupid thing for T now ...)<br>
Random_Nerd: (Err, okay, Fev 23.)<br>
Random_Nerd: (Err, Feb.)<br>
Brian: (right in French, RN!)<br>
DanteE: (Oui, vingt-trois Fevrier.)<br>
Brian: (what have we accomplished this session?  A lot of telling each other we're right :D)<br>
Brian: "So.  Um.  I suppose I could demonstrate what happens when the number four is removed from an equation?"<br>
Theresa: "Actual demonstration or theoretical?"<br>
DanteE: "We could talk with Consequences again.  Maybe if we can convince him we can convince his boss."<br>
Brian: "Well, the Ghost's a lot easier to do, really."<br>
Brian: "I don't really care either way, however."<br>
Theresa: *to Dante*  "Or at least find out what all they've tried or discarded so we step on less feet during the second round."<br>
Brian: "... just a second here."  (*tries a Divination on the Number of the Age.  What comes out of that?*)<br>
Theresa: "I think I would prefer a ghost or theoretical demonstration, since it might be harder to put four back into the world if you destroy it for real."<br>
Brian: "I wouldn't destroy it in the world.  Just in the room."<br>
Random_Nerd: (The current age is the third age.)<br>
Random_Nerd: (But also... the number of the age is a small bit of the age.)<br>
DanteE: "Wouldn't you just bounce off his Auctoritas?"<br>
Random_Nerd: (There are other names for them than the numbers.)<br>
Theresa: "Well, given that there are 4 Nobles in the room at the moment, this may be an issue."  *smile*<br>
Brian: "Not him.  The room.  Also, the Age's number seems to fall under my domain."<br>
Brian: "Um... There's sorta five, if you squint at Eve."<br>
DanteE: "Well, wait...<br>
DanteE: "Remember, he is or was an angel.<br>
DanteE: "Maybe if we point out the huge flaws in his plan he'll discard it?"<br>
Brian: "Now I'm kind of interested to see what happens..."  *_ghostly_ destroys the number 4 in the local vicinity*<br>
Random_Nerd: (Ghost-William looks really confused.  That's the main visible effect.  The reason being, you can't remove the Four from the minds or perceptions of the Nobles in the room, nor Lesson.)<br>
Theresa: "What, like pointing out that it's a really ugly plan that's been hit with the ugly truck at ugly corner in ugly town?"<br>
Brian: (I could from my own)<br>
Random_Nerd: (Okay.  if you remove it from your own, then ghost-you is really confused.  There are... several... Nobles in the room.  But if you count them, it doesn't come out right.  It's like that bit in The Wasteland.)<br>
Brian: (dunno The Wasteland)<br>
Random_Nerd: (Err, The Waste Land.)<br>
Random_Nerd: (Let me track down the quote...)<br>
Brian: "oooo, trippy."<br>
Random_Nerd: (Who is the third who walks always beside you?       <br>
Random_Nerd: When I count, there are only you and I together      360 <br>
Random_Nerd: But when I look ahead up the white road       <br>
Random_Nerd: There is always another one walking beside you       <br>
Random_Nerd: Gliding wrapt in a brown mantle, hooded      <br>
Random_Nerd: I do not know whether a man or a woman      <br>
Random_Nerd: —But who is that on the other side of you?)<br>
Random_Nerd: (Sort of like that.(<br>
Brian: (*nod*)<br>
Brian: (*dismisses and tries with the number 3, paying attention to the Age, somehow ... um, numeric qualifier on the Age, I guess*)<br>
DanteE: "Brian, if that doesn't affect me, it won't affect Barakiel."<br>
Brian: "That's a point."<br>
Random_Nerd: (When you do it to 3... you find yourself unable to think clearly about what you've been talking about.  There's something to do with the way the world is, that has something to do with things in the past, and things in the future.  But the connection doesn't seem quite clear.  It's like a human looking at a shadow of a four-dimensional object and trying to "see" the shape that casts it.)<br>
Brian: (*dismisses*)<br>
Random_Nerd: (But it doesn't make you unaware of the Third Age, as "The Third Age" is a domain in itself.  It just makes it so you can't see how it relates to the others.)<br>
Brian: "Um.  um.  Um....."<br>
Brian: "I don't quite know what that means.  Wait, hang on.  ..."<br>
Brian: *obviously pondering something*<br>
Theresa: *whispers to Dante*  "I hope he can brings himself back."<br>
Theresa: (bring even.  I is not lolNoble.)<br>
Brian: "the number of an Age seems to be in my Domain.  We know that when an Estate dies, its overlapping components do not.  Therefore, I can nearly guarantee the existence of a Fourth Age, as well as December 23rd."<br>
Brian: (t: laugh point)<br>
DanteE: "Wait ... _you_ can guarantee the age?"<br>
Brian: "I think so."<br>
Brian: "Like I said, the number of the Age is in my Domain."<br>
DanteE: "Hm... how many other people could do that?"<br>
DanteE: "If Barakiel would have to go on an Imperator mass-murder spree to actually stop the Fourth Age from happening then his plan is pointless."<br>
Brian: "That depends in how many ways Ages in general are referred to.  Actually, I've almost verified that lack of numerical representation means that the Age still exists, just kind of ... not quite in any sequence or set."<br>
Random_Nerd: (Hmm.  To the same extent as Brian could, the Power of Changes, the Power of Sequences, the Power of History, and so on might be able to.  If they existed.)<br>
DanteE: "Technically, if Brian could guarantee the age, so could Kudzu."<br>
Brian: "I'm fairly sure that Kudzu has a lot of detail about the Ages wrapped up in his Domains.  Not quite sure /what/, just that it's there somehow"<br>
Theresa: (Power of History does.  We proved he drinks.  A lot.)<br>
Brian: "Hope for the future?  Courage to face things?  What about Plants or Caprice or Urbanization, though?  Those don't fit..."<br>
DanteE: (Therefore, his Imperator could.  That's 3 Imperators Barakiel would have to kill to do his plan.)<br>
Theresa: "Bah, you and your logic, Brian."  *smileI*<br>
Theresa: (*smile even*  *sigh*)<br>
Random_Nerd: (But if the Estate of the Forth Age died, Brian would be hard-pressed to make a real Fourth Age.  Just like if you excruciated Animals, it'd take more than Numbers to make there be six kingdoms of living creaturs again.)<br>
Random_Nerd: (And if he pulled out a huge miracle and did, it wouldn't be the /same/ kingdom.)<br>
Brian: (no.  My argument isn't that the Fourth Age as it was to be would exist, just that there would be /a/ Fourth Age, and thus an Age Turn, and thus the plan fails)<br>
Random_Nerd: (How does that follow, then?)<br>
Brian: (a Noble did it?)<br>
Random_Nerd: (The existance of the number four doesn't mean that a fourth thing of any particular sort will come into being.)<br>
Random_Nerd: (Seven exists, for instance, but that doesn't mean there'll be a  seventh edition of Nobilis.)<br>
Brian: (yeah, well, we have an "age change happens here" date, and a number 4, which comes after 3.)<br>
Brian: (it's now after midnight.  I'd like to stop soon)<br>
Random_Nerd: (Barakiel's idea, more or less, is that the "age change happens here" bit won't happen if you take Ananda and make it so he sleeps with the fishes.  Perhaps he's right, and perhaps not, but I don't see how the existence of 4 changes that.)<br>
Random_Nerd: (By his theory, it'd just stay as the third age.)<br>
Brian: (well, his theory is dependent on age change being a part of the Age Domain.  I doubt it is, and that's part of what I want to verify, and don't know how without talking to, say, Ananda or the Phoenix)<br>
Brian: (in fact...)<br>
Brian: "My thoughts here are that Age changes will happen no matter what.  That they're a separate entity from the Estate of the Age.  In that case, we can be sure that killing Ananda is not what will solve the issue - the Phoenix are what would need to be destroyed."<br>
Random_Nerd: W: "An interesting argument.  Proving it would be tricky, but if you could, that would be a big argument against the proposed plan."<br>
Brian: "Indeed.  Hence my wish to see the Phoenix."<br>
DanteE: "No, the Phoenix family would need to be _preserved_."<br>
Brian: "And I think I could get into recursion with that ... I can only prove it with their help, but I can only get their help if I prove it..."<br>
Theresa: "Why preserved, Dante?"<br>
Brian: "Depending on how it works, I suppose you're right.  I've been assuming they sort of embody the Estate of Age Changing"<br>
DanteE: "Because their dying heralds the age"<br>
DanteE: "If they get killed, they just come back, and the new age starts. <br>
DanteE: "That's the opposite of what Barakiel wants."<br>
Brian: "Also, note that I said destroyed, not killed.  I meant as an absolute finality."<br>
Brian: (Is it ok to stop soon?  I know we're finally on a bit of a roll, but it's now after midnight here)<br>
Random_Nerd: (Stopping is good.)<br>
Random_Nerd: (You guys okay with that?)<br>
Theresa: (Yep.)<br>
DanteE: "The Phoenix represents rebirth and rising from the ashes.  Eliminating that would be bad for the war."<br>
Theresa: (So Brian is wanting to bring an end to the ages too?)<br>
Brian: (no, just figure out what makes the universe tick.)<br>
Brian: (witness the urge to get a supercollider :D)<br>
Theresa: (This is a bit like taking the universe's clock apart, letting bits go sproing into the next county and then putting it back together."<br>
Theresa: )<br>
DanteE: "It seems that the various Estates are far too interconnected for eliminating one Imperator to make a difference...<br>
Brian: (I just want to talk about them ... er, to them)<br>
DanteE: "Which means Barakiel<br>
DanteE: 's plan was doomed from the beginning.<br>
DanteE: "...so why'd he come up with it?"<br>
Brian: "It makes a difference.  Just not a perceptible one, really, in the grand scheme of things."<br>
DanteE: "He's _Consequences_.  He should see what will happen."<br>
Brian: "Nobility doesn't quite work that way, remember, Dante."<br>
DanteE: "It still needs to be considered."<br>
DanteE: (Dramatic sting, followed by "TO BE CONTINUED") :D<br>
Brian: "I agree.  His plan is shit.  We've told him so.  He doesn't care."<br>
Random_Nerd: _________________STOP______________________<br>
Brian: (yes!  In before the stop!)<br>
*** Brian is now known as lazarus.<br>
*** DanteE is now known as Knockwood.<br>
Random_Nerd: You guys have some interesting ideas.<br>
Random_Nerd: I'm curious to see where you go with some of this.<br>
Knockwood: (Beth, you'd tell us if RN was laughing his ass off, right?)<br>
lazarus: I'm curious as to how close to metaphysical reality Brian's got it.  Actually, I'm probably more curious if you've actually thought that deeply into the metaphysical reality :-P<br>
Random_Nerd: I have thought pretty deeply into how this works, metaphysically speaking.<br>
Theresa: (Yes, but he usually isn't.  :)  He doesn't laugh at his players unless they are being funny.  Rn is more the plotting schemer.  Think Luthor.)<br>
Random_Nerd: Brian seems to be a bit off in some ways.<br>
Random_Nerd: But he's not utterly barking up the wrong tree.<br>
Random_Nerd: He just needs to refine his idea and maybe clarify what he means a bit.<br>
Random_Nerd: Numbers does have something to do with the change of the ages, but it isn't the only factor.<br>
lazarus: Well, that's a complete surprise, given that the way his brain works is "hm... I wonder how this works?  OO SHINY!  What was I thinking about?  Oh yeah.  If I dissect a pea, then put it in the brain, I could make a zombie!"<br>
lazarus: that OO SHINY! element is key to fully appreciating the wild thinking process ^_^<br>
Knockwood: you sure you're not Snow? :)<br>
Theresa: Wild.  :)<br>
lazarus: kwd: yes, I'm sure.  I think.  Caprice and wildness aren't the same :p<br>
lazarus: Wild leads to Dr. Frankenstein.  Caprice leads to, well, Snow.<br>
Knockwood: Oh yeah... we missed Talk Like a Pirate Day.  Ya scalywags. :)<br>
Random_Nerd: Still, good session, guys.  I like the way you're starting to spin out crazy-but-plausible theories.<br>
lazarus: ah well.  I'm going to call it a night here.  Good session, interesting :)  see y'all next week.<br>
lazarus: RN: we always do that when talking about the Way Things Work D:<br>
lazarus: :D*<br>
Knockwood: none of us really know how things work... which means we're basically trying to guess what's going through your head<br>
Theresa: *snort*<br>
Random_Nerd: Do the answers I give seem clear enough?<br>
Theresa: Yes, but in the Nobilis way of 'wait, now what?' ?<br>
lazarus: to go on wild goose chases :D<br>
*** lazarus has signed off IRC (Disintegrated: Leaving.).<br>
Random_Nerd: I really do have pretty thoroughly-thought-out ideas of how these things work... but I'm not sure if I can communicate these ideas to others.  These are the blessing and the curse of the philosophy major.<br>
Knockwood: how much prep did you do before hitting us with this mission?<br>
Random_Nerd: Hmm.  Prep in what sense?<br>
Random_Nerd: Like, do you count time figuring out Barakiel's background, or Kudzu's, or how the ages work to be prep?<br>
Knockwood: yep<br>
Random_Nerd: If you count that, then quite a bit.<br>
Random_Nerd: But that's stuff that's generally applicable to the game,.<br>
Random_Nerd: In terms of stuff specific to the storyline... well, Locus Barakiel is a lot more detailed than it was before I started planning, as is Shadows.  And Barakiel's specific plan was something I hadn't came up with before I started planning this one.<br>
Random_Nerd: Oh, and I've put more detail into my ideas of how the Wall works for this game.<br>
Random_Nerd: Err, for this storyline.<br>
Knockwood: (!)
@@ Line 1: / Line 1: @@
-[[Chancel_Amyra]]<br>
-[[Amyra:Chapter_10|Chapter 10]]
-<br><br>
 Random_Nerd: Okay.  When we last ended, you'd more or less asked Barakiel for a time-out to go to neutral corners and confer.<br>
 Random_Nerd: Any objections to starting the first scene back in the PCs' rooms?<br>
@@ Line 422: / Line 419: @@
 Random_Nerd: Err, for this storyline.<br>
 Knockwood: (!)
-<br><br>
-[[Chancel_Amyra]]<br>
-[[Amyra:Chapter_10|Chapter 10]]