Talk:Xia

[20:40] d-esktop: i think dr wotg has morphed into another game altogether, in many ways

[20:40] Indomitable_Jon: psst you should egg willows on :P

[20:41] ST: hi

[20:41] d-esktop: i'm a loose cannon, point me at something and i'll say something spiteful about it

[20:41] d-esktop: or something controversial

[20:41] d-esktop: i mean, shit

[20:41] d-esktop: i sparked a sidereals debate, again, by failing to include a ;) in my post

[20:42] natalie^drest: haha

[20:42] wirrows: dr wotg is like...

[20:42] wirrows: something better than wotg

[20:42] d-esktop: dr wotg should be renamed, to escape the wotg reference

[20:42] wirrows: i like just calling it 'wuxia'

[20:42] d-esktop: yeah, i like wuxia

[20:42] d-esktop: or wulin adventures, or something silly

[20:43] d-esktop: that's the pattern for rpg titles

[20:43] Indomitable_Jon: Jianghu adventures

[20:43] Indomitable_Jon: Jianghu Chronicles?

[20:43] wirrows: hurg

[20:43] d-esktop: i can't come up with a good "w" word, or i'd call it wuxia & ___

[20:43] wirrows: jianghu is better than wulin

[20:44] d-esktop: a tongue-in-cheek module could be called FuPao

[20:44] Indomitable_Jon: Jianghu Saga?

[20:44] d-esktop: ooh

[20:44] Indomitable_Jon: What's another synonym for story?

[20:44] d-esktop: call it "Wuxia!"

[20:44] Indomitable_Jon: yeah

[20:44] d-esktop: with the exclamation point

[20:44] Indomitable_Jon: that is really the best way to do it

[20:44] Indomitable_Jon: nice Fu! lives on

[20:44] d-esktop: :)

[20:45] d-esktop: Fu! would be good, but sounds slightly tongue-in-cheek

[20:45] Indomitable_Jon: Fu! was the name of our mag

[20:45] d-esktop: hee

[20:45] Indomitable_Jon: which died because everyone was sad, and brad was a tard

[20:46] d-esktop: call it, "Wuxia!: More Fu Than You"

[20:46] Indomitable_Jon: I wish I could resurect Fu

[20:46] Indomitable_Jon: ya

[20:46] wirrows: omg

[20:46] Indomitable_Jon: ?

[20:47] wirrows: we should call it

[20:47] wirrows: WUXIA MONOGATARI

[20:47] Indomitable_Jon: ?

[20:47] d-esktop: or MOO GOO GAI PAN

[20:47] d-esktop: ...wait, no

[20:47] Indomitable_Jon: heh

[20:47] Indomitable_Jon: Wuxia Fu Yong

[20:48] kAFKaesque: Wux goo gia pan!

[20:48] d-esktop: though a chapter about having good kung-fu in noncombat situations could be called Mushu Wushu

[20:48] d-esktop: or Wushu Mushu

[20:48] d-esktop: that sounds better

[20:48] Indomitable_Jon: mmm

[20:48] Indomitable_Jon: Wuxia!

[20:48] d-esktop: something needs the title "Wuxia Schmuxia"

[20:48] Indomitable_Jon: I think is a good simple title

[20:49] Indomitable_Jon: sounds like a 24h game tho

[20:49] d-esktop: yeah

[20:49] Indomitable_Jon: which I think is good

[20:49] wirrows: cause

[20:49] d-esktop: reminiscent of Adventure! to me

[20:49] wirrows: monogatari is JAPANESE

[20:49] Indomitable_Jon: ok, well I've been thinking of reformatting my Fu! styles to fit your format for some time

[20:49] Indomitable_Jon: and if I stop drinking I may be able to do that

[20:49] d-esktop: mmm

[20:49] d-esktop: i rented the emperor and the assassin

[20:49] d-esktop: i need to watch it

[20:50] Indomitable_Jon: OH awesome

[20:50] Indomitable_Jon: its good

[20:50] Indomitable_Jon: unlike the Promise

[20:50] Indomitable_Jon: which was suck

[20:50] Indomitable_Jon: but pretty

[20:50] d-esktop: the promise?

[20:50] Indomitable_Jon: Chen Kaige

[20:50] d-esktop: sounds familiar but i can't place it

[20:50] Indomitable_Jon: Wu Ji

[20:50] Indomitable_Jon: current most expensive chinese move 35 mill

[20:50] Indomitable_Jon: sexy looking but invariably stupid

[20:50] wirrows: it's new

[20:51] Indomitable_Jon: ya

[20:51] Indomitable_Jon: new, but suck

[20:52] Indomitable_Jon: Jet Li's new movie is suck but choreographed nicely

[19:53] d4tw: i have made a decision

[19:54] d4tw: dr exalted is going to throw a fair amount of exalted's cosmology out the window

[19:54] Caspian: yay david!

[19:55] d4tw: so, something keeps nagging at me about dr exalted

[19:55] Caspian: oh>?

[19:55] d4tw: should i change the base task-resolution mechanic?

[19:56] Caspian: hmm

[19:56] willows: well what's your design goal here

[19:56] willows: that is, um

[19:56] Caspian: is there something simpler?

[19:56] willows: state it like a dictionary

[19:56] willows: without reference to outside objects

[19:56] d4tw: the entire point of dr exalted

[19:56] d4tw: is to take the epic kung-fu superheroes from exalted

[19:57] HertzaHaeon: What's dr Exalted?

[19:57] Caspian: done right

[19:57] ArtBadger: Done Right Exalted.

[19:57] d4tw: and mate them with a system that encourages style-oriented character construction and behavior, and mechanics that play to a genre

[19:57] d4tw: "done right", obviously, is a joke, since it's thoroughly wrong to many people, i'm sure

[19:58] d4tw: as much as i like grid- or hex-maps, i'm disinclined to bring those in

[19:58] d4tw: i think they would work contrary to my design goals

[19:59] ArtBadger: diceless hexmaps are nat's favorite system.

[19:59] HertzaHaeon: You're all finicky with Exalted. I think I*m the only one who likes it as it is in the books. :P

[19:59] willows: okay

[19:59] willows: so what you are saying

[19:59] HertzaHaeon: Heh, diceless hexmaps.

[19:59] willows: is you want to make a style-oriented game about kung fu superheroes

[19:59] willows: that means---

[19:59] d4tw: that could mean that i'm trying to make, like, wushu

[20:00] willows: -it needs to be mechanically not just viable, but -better- to act in a way that's stylish after your own character

[20:00] Myrrh: That could mean that you could use Feng Shui...

[20:00] d4tw: willows: right!

[20:00] willows: and characters' styles are kung fu superhero characters

[20:01] d4tw: one thing i love most about exalted, though, is the intricacy of the charm system. while i think it goes just a bit far on the complexity angle, it open-ends so well that i think i want to retain the essence of that

[20:01] willows: so what i see in kung fu and supers is that characters tend to be sharply aligned with a faction, and that /means something/

[20:01] willows: that is important i think

[20:01] willows: also you want to play with charms and powers

[20:01] willows: that's good too

[20:02] d4tw: with regards to factions

[20:02] d4tw: by "faction" are you including ethos?

[20:02] d4tw: ...i think i just misused that word

[20:02] willows: uh

[20:02] d4tw: replace "ethos" with "specific moral code"

[20:02] willows: specifically

[20:03] willows: a group of people that align themselves together and generally have something material linking them together

[20:03] willows: like in Avatar, the nations are factions

[20:04] willows: in cthd, you have wudangshan, the Yu family, the cops, Jade Fox, and Lo

[20:04] d4tw: then if i retain the splats from exalted, that would work, yes?

[20:04] willows: in hero there're the cops (again), the flying daggers cult, and feng/xiaomei

[20:04] willows: hero?

[20:04] d4tw: hofd

[20:04] willows: hofd

[20:04] willows: so, hm

[20:05] d4tw: in hero there's, like, qin and the assassins?

[20:05] *** Carmine is now known as Kraken|Sleeps.

[20:05] willows: i think the non-solar heritages all work as factions

[20:05] willows: yeah. i'd maybe argue that wu ming is his own faction

[20:05] willows: that's why he doesn't have a name

[20:05] willows: hero is sort of aberrant

[20:05] d4tw: ooh, good point

[20:06] d4tw: well, retaining most of exalted's setting would work, i think

[20:06] willows: but like i could see something (going way beyond resolution system and into reward cycle here) where you can get, like, some kind of bonus xp for coming to the aid of your party

[20:07] d4tw: mm

[20:07] d4tw: yeah, while i think most people factor that into roleplaying rewards, it should probably be codified

[20:08] willows: there's a lot of power in -telling- people what you'll reward them for

[20:08] d4tw: yeah

[20:08] willows: there isn't enough time depth in most games for people to figure out what you're rewarding by just watching your patterns

[20:08] d4tw: i think a broader range of rewards is in order

[20:09] willows: actually wotg has a lot of stuff i like, in terms of dealings with your faction

[20:09] d4tw: i absolutely /love/ loresheets

[20:09] willows: hah gmta

[20:09] d4tw: i'm really thinking of yoinking that

[20:27] willows: hm

[20:27] willows: the wotg virtues are a little odd

[20:27] willows: i like the way that the exalted ones are sort of uncompromising and crazy

[20:27] d4tw: the wotg virtues are intended to mimic, uh, wotg. so they don't really work.

[20:29] d4tw: so, what are the distinct virtues of a kung-fu superhero?

[20:29] Caspian: heroism

[20:29] Caspian: well do you mean good superhero or a bad superhero?

[20:29] d4tw: i'm thinking a little narrower than heroism

[20:30] Caspian: I think for both sides the key idea is being Flashy

[20:30] Caspian: and Standing for Things

[20:30] d4tw: the exalted ones work well, i think, actually

[20:30] d4tw: courage, purpose, self-control, compassion?

[20:31] Caspian: for the heroic ones ya

[20:32] Caspian: sometimes self control is switched with indulgence

[20:32] d4tw: perhaps an eight-line virtue arrangement?

[20:32] d4tw: courage/cowardice, purpose/self-interest, self-control/indulgence, compassion/callousness?

[20:34] d4tw: or are eight virtues too clumsy?

[20:34] willows: once i was talking with my friend thomas about an eight-pointed ring of emotions linked to the virtues...

[20:35] Caspian: hmm that works

[20:35] Caspian: it seems balanced and takes into account the non-xia heroes

[20:35] willows: (Link: http://njyar.thesmerf.com/images/misc/emotionwheel.png)http://njyar.thesmerf.com/images/misc/emotionwheel.png

[20:35] d4tw: cowardice really feels like a subset of self-interest, tho

[20:35] Caspian: you can mix and match which virtues you are alligned with right David?

[20:35] Caspian: true

[20:35] willows: maroon is valour and blue is conviction

[20:35] d4tw: ooh, that's cool

[20:35] willows: pink compassion and orange temperance

[20:36] d4tw: what's the dark blue?

[20:36] d4tw: wait *peer*

[20:36] willows: that's like the elemental cycle

[20:36] willows: the idea is that you can work it like wotg secret arts

[20:36] d4tw: ah

[20:36] willows: use a progression technique to push something around the circle or invert it

[20:37] d4tw: i like that a lot

[20:37] d4tw: in fact, yes

[20:38] d4tw: that emotion wheel could work well

[20:38] willows: awesome

[20:38] willows: i'm glad those five minutes didn't go to waste

[20:38] d4tw: heh

[20:38] Caspian: why is self interest opposed to purpose?

[20:39] d4tw: because purpose doesn't really mean purpose?

[20:39] d4tw: i'm thinking of purpose as representing a devotion to something greater than yourself

[20:39] d4tw: a cause, a belief, a nation, etc

[20:39] d4tw: hrm!

[20:40] d4tw: i think there are inward and outward sides of each virtue

[20:40] willows: hm, i suspect you could use the wheel in such a way that your rating in a virtue reflects your susceptibility to those emotions

[20:40] Caspian: oh devotion

[20:43] d4tw: yeah

[20:43] d4tw: i officially love the wheel

[20:50] d4tw: i'm throwing away essence as power for kung-fu

[20:52] Caspian: why?

[20:52] Caspian: essence = too fiddly?

[20:54] d4tw: more that with the game being more style and virtue oriented, i see no reason to pretend that kung-fu is powered by mystical energy flows

[20:54] d4tw: your kung-fu is fueled by your virtue

[20:54] Caspian: interesting

[20:55] d4tw: by your force of will and quality of character and by acting heroically, etc

[20:55] Caspian: nice

[20:55] d4tw: essence still exists

[20:55] Caspian: that's a good way to enforce ingenre behaviour

[20:55] d4tw: yeah

[20:56] d4tw: i think "essence" will just be what scholars and such discuss

[20:56] d4tw: sorcery might actually function by manipulating it

[20:56] d4tw: ooh, maybe sorcery still costs essence ... but essence is drawn from the world around you

[20:56] d4tw: kind of dark-sun-ish

[20:56] willows: posibly "essence" is what unddifferentiated virtue-power is

[20:56] d4tw: perhaps so

[20:57] d4tw: i'm more comfortable with treating essence as, like, the mystical energy that makes the world go 'round

[20:57] d4tw: and your virtue-power lets you bend essence

[20:57] d4tw: so you're not using essence, you're actually working against it or forcing it out of your way

[20:58] Caspian: mmm, by using your virtue power

[20:58] Caspian: neat

[20:58] d4tw: sorcery would be the only thing that really /uses/ essence

[20:58] d4tw: and it does so by using virtue-mojo to pull essence away from what it's supposed to be doing and making it do what you want

[21:00] Caspian: mmm

[21:00] Caspian: so magic is bad in a way?

[21:01] Caspian: cause by doing something youre literally stealing away power from something else?

[21:01] d4tw: right!

[21:01] willows: the sage vyasa once asked a question

[21:02] willows: one day, it rained, and my flowers were watered thereby.

[21:02] willows: the next day, someone angered the god of thunder, and the god struck him down with bolts.

[21:02] willows: which of these was improper? Which was unnatural?

[21:02] Caspian: wait a minute, what about the gods?

[21:02] Caspian: they use magic to do stuff?

[21:02] willows: the answer is neither. it is the nature of gods to do as they will.

[21:02] willows: exalted are essentially gods.

[21:03] Caspian: do they draw power from "somewhere else"?

[21:03] willows: no

[21:03] d4tw: the gods are something of a nonissue

[21:03] willows: they just do things

[21:03] Caspian: ah

[21:03] d4tw: i'll rewrite the cosmology as necessary to fit the system

[21:03] willows: that's their nature

[21:03] Caspian: mmm

[21:03] d4tw: it's a case of, like

[21:03] willows: similarly, it's the nature of exalted to make stuff happen

[21:03] d4tw: form following function, which follows form