Once more with feeling/Logs/Small Group/In Denandsor/Anshu, De`aneir`a, Lilijana, Solitary Talon's Faction, and Ziyad (Ministry of Defence & Logistics Arrangements)

War Room Central Manse
(31/10/09 10:43:02) Ziyad currently living in the central manse has arrived first. Taking a seat up near a large glass screen at the hard of a large glass table. Sunlight streams in as the sun begins to set. The east face of the city visible out of the windows.
(31/10/09 10:43:59) De`aneir`a knocks politely and stands at the door.
(31/10/09 10:45:03) Ziyad: "No need to stand on ceremony for me De`aneir`a. Just enter."
(31/10/09 10:46:31) De`aneir`a: "Ah, okay." She says as she enters. "How are you today?" She takes a seat after stretching her wings for a slight moment.
(31/10/09 10:47:14) Anshu enters behind the winged Eclipse and seats himself across the table from her, at Ziyad's other side.
(31/10/09 10:47:39) Solitary Talon walks in a few moments after De`aneir`a, holding Silveria by the hand. Lilijana is following a couple of paces behind them.
(31/10/09 10:48:27) Ziyad: "As busy as ever. It never lets up."
(31/10/09 10:48:50) De`aneir`a: "Ser Anshu," she nods to him with a smile, and then greets the women, "Seras Silveria Arc, Solitary Talon, and Lilijana."
(31/10/09 10:49:17) Ziyad just nods as each person enters
(31/10/09 10:49:57) Lilijana: "It is a pleasure to see you all as ever" Lilijana greets the others
(31/10/09 10:50:27) Solitary Talon nods back to De`aneir`a. "Lady De`aneir`a, Prime Minister Ziyad. Anshu."
(31/10/09 10:51:09) Silveria enters silently looking about cautiously, and allows Solitary to take a seat.
(31/10/09 10:52:29) Anshu: "Prime Minister, fellow Ministers, and fellow Councilors." Anshu returns the greetings.
(31/10/09 10:54:30) Ziyad: "Thank you all for coming."
(31/10/09 10:55:02) Anshu: "Perhaps a brief prayer before we begin? For wisdom and guidance?"
(31/10/09 10:55:38) Silveria takes a seat and frowns slightly. "For wisdom and guidance, no?" She nods and glances to Solitary.
(31/10/09 10:55:59) Solitary Talon raises an eyebrow. "I don't see a priest or priestess of Mars here?"
(31/10/09 10:56:59) De`aneir`a: "Priest and Priestess of the Sun," she says pointing to the two Zeniths with a questioning look.
(31/10/09 10:57:30) Ziyad shrugs "if you wish"
(31/10/09 10:58:17) Lilijana nods "It could not hurt to ask at least."
(31/10/09 11:00:21) Anshu: "O Mighty Sun, with Your light show us the proper path to the strength we will need to defend Creation in your name. To you we pray."
(31/10/09 11:05:02) Solitary Talon: "Lady Venus, Maiden of Serenity, show us the path of temperance, that we may have a civil and calm discussion. Hear our prayer."
(31/10/09 11:05:47) De`aneir`a nods agreeing with both prayers.
(31/10/09 11:08:42) Ziyad keeps his head bowed through both prayers, raising his head a few seconds later. His actions slow.
(31/10/09 11:09:39) Ziyad: "I called this meeting to dicuss our new Ministry. And what I would propose we do with it."
(31/10/09 11:11:07) Ziyad: "Firstly I would propose we move Denandsor's military away from personal forces and integrate them into one professional military."
(31/10/09 11:11:28) Solitary Talon blinks. "Why would we want to do that?"
(31/10/09 11:12:46) Ziyad: "An army jointly commanded would be more efficient. Especially as I wish to drastically increase it's size."
(31/10/09 11:13:40) Ziyad: "Moreso it would distribute power amongst the four of us and calm some of those worried about any one of us attempting to seize power through force of arms."
(31/10/09 11:13:55) De`aneir`a blinks.
(31/10/09 11:14:34) Solitary Talon 's voice hardens. "Excuse me?"
(31/10/09 11:15:05) Silveria: "Some might suspect a rebellion in progress. No one is of course saying that I would hope, no?"
(31/10/09 11:16:10) Lilijana: "I can see the first point Minister Ziyad, but the second seems to be.. how should I put it" Lilijana pasues as she considers her words
(31/10/09 11:17:44) Ziyad: "Granted that to many of us an Army is not a threat. But I feel it would calm some of the existing tensions, a wee bit if the larger army had a more unified and joint command structure."
(31/10/09 11:19:58) Anshu nods. "I agree, especially as we begin to expand the army and the navy."
(31/10/09 11:20:28) Anshu: "I myself will be perfectly content to give up personal control of the refugee militia."
(31/10/09 11:21:03) Ziyad: "The idea is that any future rebellions damage would be limited by the others within join control. This is not suggesting that such a rebellion would take place just that making such a thing harder to do doesn't strike me as a bad idea. After all while an Army is not much of a threat to us Exalted it can still cause quite a lot of damage to the infrastructure and the city."
(31/10/09 11:22:47) Solitary Talon: "And what exactly is that supposed to mean?"
(31/10/09 11:23:08) De`aneir`a nods calmly looking to the other side where Solitary sat.
(31/10/09 11:23:54) Silveria: "It has merits no, Solitary?" The Lunar suggests softly.
(31/10/09 11:25:51) Ziyad: "That within the greater army and navy permenant Solar Command is only undertaken in times of war. And that the Soldiers on every level of the command structure are exceedingly competant and capable. A new model army, if you will, moving away from the more traditional methods of waging war."
(31/10/09 11:26:38) Lilijana: "Perhaps mistress it would be wise to listen to their words before rushing to a judgement." Lilijana adds in a whisper.
(31/10/09 11:26:49) Solitary Talon: "And what, precisely, am I supposed to gain from such an arrangement?"
(31/10/09 11:28:52) Ziyad: "I'll answer that when I have finished Solitary Talon. As I was saying: soldiers ultimately loyalty should be to the city, then their comrades, and lastly to the commander."
(31/10/09 11:31:00) Anshu sits quietly, letting Ziyad set things out.
(31/10/09 11:33:08) De`aneir`a is also silent and thoughtful.
(31/10/09 11:33:48) Ziyad: "After all Realm Legions, at least before the disappearance of your Great Grandmother, were loyal first to the realm and only then to their commanders. To prevent petty defections like the sort that has plagued its military in recent years."
(31/10/09 11:34:15) Ziyad: "That part of this model is not unrealistic. In fact others have proved its worth long before I."
(31/10/09 11:38:06) Ziyad remains seated, drinking from a glass of water. "Any other questions?"
(31/10/09 11:38:18) Lilijana: "Such a thing would be a different way of leading troops most lead by force of personality first, you are suggesting something else" Lilijana asks softly
(31/10/09 11:39:32) Ziyad: "Precisely. Leading through joint loyalty to a cause and the competance of the individual."
(31/10/09 11:41:31) Anshu: "Although I suspect we will never be truly rid of force of personality as an influence."
(31/10/09 11:42:10) Lilijana: "Such a thing would be useful, too many armies fall apart once their leader is slain." Lilijana's eyes have a distant look about them for a moment. "But what of Mistress Solitary's question she is to give up direct command of her force? or only the ability to use it without the blessing of the ministry?"
(31/10/09 11:46:37) Ziyad: "The forces she has at the moment? They are in the scheme of things relatively unimportant. If she wishes to experiment by adapting them to this scheme she is encouraged too but taking them away is unnecessary. Doing so may well have its advantages, first and foremost preventing their marginalisation once the rest of the army exists and secondly it may well calm some of the tensions with the others, as I don't doubt the army makes them nervous."
(31/10/09 11:47:26) Ziyad: "As to the deployment. I am not sure. The details rely more on how we choose to build this ministry."
(31/10/09 11:48:01) Anshu: "I would think she would be required to give up direct personal control of the majority of her forces, yes. It defeats the purpose of creating a united army, loyal to the city first if councillors are allowed to retain entire legions on their own payroll, does it not?"
(31/10/09 11:49:09) Ziyad: "True, but I suspect forcing her to is going to get us nowhere. Am I correct?" He glances towards Solitary Talon questioningly
(31/10/09 11:49:31) De`aneir`a: "Strange concept having an army worry someone," she says softly.
(31/10/09 11:52:49) Silveria merely nods to Ziyad's statement, resting a hand on the girl's shoulder.
(31/10/09 11:53:00) Lilijana: "Does not an army need a single commaner regardless? will you rotate exalts capable of leading armies through the different units then?" Lilijana looks slightly confused
(31/10/09 11:53:52) Solitary Talon nods at De`aneir`a's comment.
(31/10/09 11:55:25) Anshu looks to Ziyad. "I don't believe we've yet discussed that level of detail yet, De`aneir`a."
(31/10/09 11:55:55) De`aneir`a: "I see," she says with a nod.
(31/10/09 11:59:27) Ziyad: "I imagine as more Exalts join us this bureau will gain more members. Thus more generals, captains and admirals for our forces."
(31/10/09 12:02:21) Solitary Talon: "I see." Solitary pauses. "However, would it not be best to wait until we're *not* in the middle of a war to rearrange a working military?"
(31/10/09 12:03:49) Lilijana: "Although Mistress by giving up full control now you will gain long term access to many more soldiers it may bear thinking about." Lilijana whispers
(31/10/09 12:04:31) Ziyad: "What better time? If we really wish to fight this war we are going to need to expand our forces vastly. Which makes this as an ideal a time as any. If we wait for peace we no longer require an such a force."
(31/10/09 12:04:49) Anshu: "You raise a fair point, but would it not be best to have a working, unified military if we are to fight this war effectively?"
(31/10/09 12:06:46) Solitary Talon: "And where do you propose to get the people to expand our forces from, Ziyad?"
(31/10/09 12:08:35) Ziyad: "Well between the refugees pouring in from the River Provinces many of whom wish to avenge their fallen homes, certain members of this circle are capable of... creating people, if I understand Antonee correctly."
(31/10/09 12:09:37) De`aneir`a: "This is... true," De`aneir`a says with a nod.
(31/10/09 12:09:58) Solitary Talon: "Yes, of course we're capable of creating people. It just takes a rather long time, and they tend not to be good fighters for several years after."
(31/10/09 12:10:31) De`aneir`a: "But the Refugees are more easily trained, I would think?"
(31/10/09 12:11:00) Ziyad: "No I mean in a much more literal sense. Creating full grown adults, full grown." His voice is uncertain.
(31/10/09 12:11:29) Solitary Talon stares. "How in... no, actually, I don't think I *want* to know."
(31/10/09 12:11:35) Anshu: "With souls and the potential to Exalt?"
(31/10/09 12:12:15) Lilijana: "Was their not also talk of creating automat- Automtans? however you say the word. Would these be added to our forces?" Lilijana asks.
(31/10/09 12:12:31) De`aneir`a: "Well it does require a bit of access... to other things. And I've not actually done it myself. Automatons I can create. I do it a lot actually."
(31/10/09 12:13:40) Ziyad: "I think to get an answer to your question Anshu you'd best ask Antonee."
(31/10/09 12:13:43) Lilijana mouths the word as she tries to remember it.
(31/10/09 12:14:36) Anshu nods. "If so I'd want them counted as citizens. And would he even have time, with the other projects we're asking him to undertake?"
(31/10/09 12:15:09) Solitary Talon: "I think he said something about his Factory-Cathedral dilating time inside it?"
(31/10/09 12:15:43) De`aneir`a: "I can help with that if it is a method we dare use."
(31/10/09 12:15:45) Solitary Talon shrugs. "I'm not an Occultist, so most of it went over my head."
(31/10/09 12:16:17) De`aneir`a: "Though between the Air Fleets and other projects I would have to start Prioritizing my time."
(31/10/09 12:16:52) Solitary Talon stares. "Air fleets? Is there a reason I haven't been kept in the loop?"
(31/10/09 12:17:01) Anshu: "Perhaps another meeting with Antonee should be held, to figure out how our priorities should be ordered."
(31/10/09 12:18:54) Ziyad: "I had intended to suggest a split in general command, Solitary. Too many cooks can spoil the broth and all that. More so I did not think you had the slightest interest in Ships. My suggestion which I was preparing to come to was this:"
(31/10/09 12:19:15) Ziyad taps the table and an organisational chart appears on the glass
(31/10/09 12:20:00) Lilijana bends forward with a look of interest
(31/10/09 12:20:06) Ziyad: "If you and Anshu are considered overall heads of the Army, De`aneir`a and I will be heads of the the new Navy we are commissioning."
(31/10/09 12:20:58) Solitary Talon: "So I'm expected to give up complete control of my troops and not even gain a say in the Navy? Hell with that."
(31/10/09 12:21:36) Anshu: "You are still one of the Ministers of Defense and Logistics. I wouldn't call that not having a say."
(31/10/09 12:22:18) Ziyad: "I will ask then. Do you know anything at all of ships? Sky or otherwise?"
(31/10/09 12:22:41) Ziyad: "What operating one requires, how such things are meant to be maintained?"
(31/10/09 12:22:52) De`aneir`a gets a sad look.
(31/10/09 12:22:58) Lilijana: "Calmly Mistress, if you antagonize them too much you stand to lose much." Lilijana adds softly.
(31/10/09 12:23:51) Solitary Talon looks disdainful. "And get my hands dirty? No. I have people to do that for me."
(31/10/09 12:26:06) Ziyad: "I know you know how to command an army. And at the moment command of the army leaves you in Joint Command with only one other. Neither De`aneir`a nor I have any interest in the Army beyond reorganising it. And Anshu is only within the Admiralty as I need him for training those who will join it. The navy requires greater knowledge than that of an Army. Far greater."
(31/10/09 12:26:33) De`aneir`a nods slightly.
(31/10/09 12:28:35) Solitary Talon: "Then I will ask again. What, precisely, do I stand to gain from this arrangement?"
(31/10/09 12:28:37) Ziyad: "You just admitted you know nothing of the most basics of Operating a Navy. Be sensible would you give command of a navy to something who knew nothing of it? It does not strike me as a good idea, can you honestly claim that you would place someone else in such a role with such a lack of knowledge?"
(31/10/09 12:31:43) Anshu: "You gain the security of knowing that it will be impossible for a large-scale civil war to break out in this city, should tensions between factions come to a head."
(31/10/09 12:33:04) Anshu: "Personally, I have no problem with you keeping control of a wing or so of infantry and perhaps a talon of cavalry should you feel the need for bodyguards or private security for your holdings in the city, but I'm at a loss as to what need you might now have for siege engines, crack commando teams, or dragons upon dragons of archers and cavalry. What do they do for you besides exist as a drain on your treasury?"
(31/10/09 12:39:54) De`aneir`a looks a little uncomfortable have perhaps opened her mouth.
(31/10/09 12:40:06) Solitary Talon stares at Anshu. "They give me a large degree of independence and power. Both of which I would lose under the proposed changes. And I don't see you being asked to sacrifice nearly as much as I am."
(31/10/09 12:41:46) Lilijana: "What could Anshu offer that would meet what you feel you lose Mistress?" Lilijana asks quietly?
(31/10/09 12:42:24) Ziyad: "You are right about that but he is also being required to sacrifice all the troops he has amassed."
(31/10/09 12:43:02) Ziyad: "For the moment he has less of them. I doubt had the situation remained the same that would have remained the same for long."
(31/10/09 12:43:32) Anshu: "Materially, yes, but I am going to be giving up much of my available time to oversee their training in the arts of war."
(31/10/09 12:46:23) Solitary Talon looks thoughtful for a moment. "I would like primary control of the Army side. And, Ziyad, I don't think losing control less than two thousand mortals can truly be considered equivalent to losing control of ten thousand highly potent godblooded, when he gains a large degree of influence over the naval side as well."
(31/10/09 12:48:36) Ziyad: "Actually I had intended for his Naval role to be limited strictly to Training, at least once we have enough officers from those trained to fill the ranks. Moreso I want Two Exalts in charge of the Army. I do not trust just one, no matter whom it is, as I am sure you can appreciate."
(31/10/09 12:49:41) Ziyad: "This is the same reason neither De`aneir`a nor I are in total command of the Navy. And I do not want to use the two forces to police one another."
(31/10/09 12:50:40) Ziyad: "It will cause undue tension between the two forces."
(31/10/09 12:51:06) De`aneir`a: "It would be a drain on our resources and deviate the forces from their intented purpose," she adds gently.
(31/10/09 12:54:38) Solitary Talon: "Yes, Ziyad. He gains a large degree of influence over the naval side. Or do you truly believe that those he trains will not be loyal to him just as much as the city?"
(31/10/09 12:55:06) Anshu: "I will swear an Eclipse oath to that effect, if it will put your mind at ease."
(31/10/09 12:55:23) Anshu: "That I will not do so, that is."
(31/10/09 12:55:52) Ziyad: "The intent Solitary is to minimalise that effect."
(31/10/09 13:02:28) Solitary Talon: "Fine."
(31/10/09 13:02:34) Solitary Talon looks sullen.
(31/10/09 13:03:10) Silveria is momentarily shocked but rubs the girls arms comfortingly with a gently smile.
(31/10/09 13:06:34) Lilijana looks pleased that Solitary has seen sense. She looks across at Ziyad Indicating that the other Solars should be magnamious in their victory
(31/10/09 13:06:54) Solitary Talon: "Now. Why precisely did it take a slip for me to be informed of the building of a Navy, when I have to allocate funds for it?"
(31/10/09 13:07:39) De`aneir`a looks surprised.
(31/10/09 13:07:47) Ziyad: "Actually the majority of the Naval plans were made only earlier today. I had thought to bring it up as part of this meeting. De`aneir`a just beat me to the point."
(31/10/09 13:08:48) De`aneir`a: "I... I am sorry I let it go out of order Prime Minister." She says bowing her head. "I get careless from time to time."
(31/10/09 13:09:08) Solitary Talon looks angry now. "So you had been planning to talk me into handing over control of my army, and *then* inform that you were going to give Anshu a bigger advantage?"
(31/10/09 13:09:29) Ziyad: "It was no great secret. Do not feel any shame."
(31/10/09 13:13:41) Lilijana: "Perhaps they had not looked at it in that way Mistress? that it would give Anshu an advantage." Lilijana tries to calm the fiery tempered Solar. "But even if that is not the case you have that information now."
(31/10/09 13:14:28) Silveria: "Now, now Solitary," she says gently, "Anshu merely trains the navy personnel, he gains nothing but, in my opinion a lot more work and less play." She says with a mischievious look to Solitary.
(31/10/09 13:14:30) Ziyad turns to Talon. "What advantage? The Navy is not his to control, rather it is De`aneir`a's and my responsability. Unless you have reason to fear us, do you think either of us would have allowed it to be put to use against you."
(31/10/09 13:15:13) Ziyad nods in agreement with both Lilijana and Silveria.
(31/10/09 13:16:22) De`aneir`a: "You don't need to fear me, what a waste it would be to use them on ourselves. What when we have the Underworld and the Wyld breathing down our necks."
(31/10/09 13:17:27) Solitary Talon: "Gee, I don't know. Maybe the fact you've been keeping secrets I should know about gives me reason to fear you?"
(31/10/09 13:19:24) Ziyad: "This was no secret, merely an idea I had that was rushed into practice. It has only been 24 hours. Were Antonee not a miracle worker, naught would have come of it."
(31/10/09 13:19:49) Ziyad: "Anyway this is a government, secrets abound. I am sure there are things you are all hiding from me."
(31/10/09 13:22:11) De`aneir`a: "I don't think I'm holding secrets from anyone?"
(31/10/09 13:24:33) Lilijana: "Minister Ziyad has been generally honest and even handed in his dealings with you mistress. Perhaps you should accept this as a mistake on his part?"
(31/10/09 13:25:46) Solitary Talon: "Fine. I still think an apology would be appropriate, however."
(31/10/09 13:27:05) Lilijana: "On that I would agree" Again she looks across at Ziyad pleading with him to indulge Solitary this time
(31/10/09 13:27:38) Ziyad: "You are right and you have my apologies, Lady Talon. I did not think a mere twenty-four hours would matter and in that I was wrong."
(31/10/09 13:33:12) Ziyad: "Now while I have your attention, is there anything else we should discuss as the ministry?"
(31/10/09 13:33:50) Ziyad: "Or perhaps rather while you have my attention", as one of the screens comes alive with a delegation entering the square.
(31/10/09 13:39:37) Lilijana: "We appear to have guests Minister Ziyad, are you expecting anyone?" Lilijana asks
(31/10/09 13:40:56) Ziyad: "There is always someone. Asking something. If we have any business, they can wait."
(31/10/09 13:43:25) Lilijana: "I do have a few questions that are related to the department. How soon are we likely to be able to manufacture artefact equipment suitable for mortals?"
(31/10/09 13:46:59) Ziyad: "Speaking to Antonee, he suggested immediately. I currently have several of the larger factories devoted to a naval project but the lesser ones are curning out large quanitities of 1st Age weaponry we have blueprints for. Enough to outfit out existing forces should be available within the month. Enough to outfit out our potential armed forces should be ready within the Season. Larger or Special Artefacts will take longer, I believe."
(31/10/09 13:47:29) De`aneir`a nods.
(31/10/09 13:48:44) Ziyad pushes another button and schematics of equipment appears behind him. "Larger artefacts also suffer from requiring power sources which several of us are experimenting with at the moment. De`aneir`a I really should yield the floor to you, as you know more about this than I."
(31/10/09 13:52:40) Lilijana: "Will I be able to requisition such items for my Intelligence troops?" Liljana looks across at De`aneir`a "And do we have any plans for smaller airships suitable for infiltarting such troops?"
(31/10/09 13:53:27) De`aneir`a: "Oh I do not have plans for smaller craft, but I can add them to the list. Surely they won't need much." She nods thoughtfully.
(31/10/09 13:54:03) De`aneir`a: "Well..." she thinks again, "Perhaps I do have something already. Just nothing built already."
(31/10/09 14:02:56) De`aneir`a: "Power is the greatest threat. As we don't have enough Hearthstones. But I have been shrinking the Essence Capacitors for use on more common sized devices. I should have a good set of those available to be added to the other devices being made before long."
(31/10/09 14:04:27) Solitary Talon pretends she understands what De`aneir`a is talking about. "I see."
(31/10/09 14:06:13) Lilijana: "Mostly I was thinking that it would be wise to investigate an area fully before we deploy the main of our force, such a thing is best done from smaller less noticeable craft. Also if we are to properly employ commando teams again smaller craft would work best" Lilijana answers
(31/10/09 14:14:47) Solitary Talon nods. "Agreed. I might try creating some designs, in my copious free time."
(31/10/09 14:16:23) Lilijana: "As to my other question Minister Ziyad will I be able to requisition something similar to ashigaru armour and personal essence weapons for the intelligence troops?"
(31/10/09 14:18:31) Ziyad: "Absolutely, Lilijana. I would also recommend scheduling a meeting with Antonee and De`aneir`a to run through any ideas for new designs you have. I feel the more designs that we put into the field that no one has seen before the better. It leaves those with knowledge of what came before less sure what we can do."
(31/10/09 14:29:15) Solitary Talon sighs. "Great. We're not exactly getting any richer, here. How am I supposed to find funds for all this stuff?"
(31/10/09 14:32:26) Ziyad: "Most of it can be produced by the raw material we already possess. And until traders and trade routes are set up the only real expense here is labour. What worries me is when we need more raw materials. Antonee has assured me he can make more... well... anything with enough time; be it money, people or materials. But trading will be a better and more efficient use of our resources."
(31/10/09 14:37:40) De`aneir`a: "Most assuredly." She agrees.