Once more with feeling/Logs/Small Group/In Denandsor/Nuwa and Ziyad (Discussion of Charm usage and Mental Influence)

(25/10/09 05:18:32) Ziyad: Some distance from the council 'chamber', among rolling hills
(25/10/09 05:19:30) Ziyad: Ziyad is sitting on the hillside watching the clouds.
(25/10/09 05:21:19) Nuwa: Light footsteps behind him announce the presence of a visitor, coming to a halt a few steps away. "Ziyad. Am I disturbing you or do you have a minute of time to spare?"
(25/10/09 05:23:28) Ziyad: With a sigh he sits up, his face entirely under control by the time he sits up. "Why not."
(25/10/09 05:24:33) Ziyad: "What is it you need Nuwa?"
(25/10/09 05:27:44) Nuwa: Nuwa sits down beside him, close enough to talk but not as close as to be impolite. "You have taken on a difficult job, trying to keep some measure of order in the council's discussions."
(25/10/09 05:30:15) Ziyad: He gives a short barking laugh. "It is more than beginning to wear a little thin."
(25/10/09 05:30:54) Ziyad gives Nuwa a knowing look. "My patience that is. I assume you are here to talk to me because it has been showing?"
(25/10/09 05:31:46) Nuwa: "I realize that they can be infuriating. Perhaps you feel like a father, whose children are squabbling over petty matters? But even so, I fear that in your tone and outbursts you may become part of the needless arguments."
(25/10/09 05:33:37) Nuwa nods. "If the councilors feel that you are talking down to them, reacting with condescension to what it dear to their hearts - for they would not argue otherwise, would they? - it may weaken your position. And I feel it is important to have a moderating influence such as you have been many times."
(25/10/09 05:38:56) Ziyad nods, "I thank you for your concern. It is something I suppose I do already know but having been in a such a position since Nexus is wearying. Extremely wearying."
(25/10/09 05:39:42) Ziyad: "The condescension is something I shall control."
(25/10/09 05:41:22) Ziyad lets out a deep breath
(25/10/09 05:41:32) Ziyad: "Was there anything else?"
(25/10/09 05:42:18) Nuwa shakes her head. "No. That is what I came to speak of."
(25/10/09 05:45:57) Nuwa: "I will leave you to your thoughts then ..."

The following conversation has been retconned away for the moment (see below):
(25/10/09 05:45:19) Ziyad: "Not to spoil the moment." He says before she rises, "But I feel I should warn you about that trick of yours."
(25/10/09 05:45:44) Ziyad: "This is something I have been meaning to bring up for sometime but there has never been an appropriate moment."
(25/10/09 05:45:57) Nuwa: Nuwa pauses. "What trick?"
(25/10/09 05:46:16) Ziyad: "The one that convinces those you speak the truth."
(25/10/09 05:48:00) Nuwa looks at Ziyad, her expression inquiring. "What do you want to warn me about?"
(25/10/09 05:48:24) Ziyad: "Against beings that are not Exalted I can see its use. But to those capable of resisting its effects it never helps your case. Most in this council are weary of those who twist their perceptions with magic, myself included. The charm as I assume it is, it just convinces those among the council that you ARE lying or at the very least concealling the truth." He sighs again, "Do you understand how this could be a problem?"
(25/10/09 05:50:00) Nuwa: "But that's not how it works." Nuwa seems to consider that something entirely obvious. "It can't ever be used to lie, not even by omission. That's simply not possible."
(25/10/09 05:52:10) Ziyad: "But they won't know that. That trick seems to be unique to you and they do not know how it works. Moreso most people do not like having their decisions made for them, even if it is something as simple as deciding whether or not you lie."
(25/10/09 05:55:50) Nuwa frowns. "Just about everyone here knows more about sorcery and essential matters than me. I thought ... But even so, I'm not making their decision for them. I'm just making it as clear as possible that I am - as I always am - telling the truth to the best of my knowledge."
(25/10/09 05:57:03) Ziyad: "Ah but in a way the charm makes the decision for them. You can understand how this would anger or irritate, yes?"
(25/10/09 06:00:31) Nuwa: "I'm not some manipulative mastermind hiding behind a facade of truthfulness. I think that should be apparent to anyone. If someone insists on disbelieving the evidence of their own eyes and ears, out of hate or prejudice, the Charm simply makes that harder."
(25/10/09 06:02:32) Ziyad: "Except some of them do not know you at all and can not tell that you are not such a thing. Furthermore some suspect you still of being such a thing exactly because of the use of this trick." He shrugs, "I thought it best to warn you quietly. Whether you believe me or not is up to you."
(25/10/09 06:02:47) Nuwa: "I just can't see anyone fighting so hard to deny something like that for good reasons."
(25/10/09 06:04:17) Nuwa: "And using Charms to tell for certain whether someone is trying to be deceptive, that's one of the easiest tricks there is."
(25/10/09 06:04:42) Ziyad: "We live in a vicious world Nuwa and Evil sometimes takes a pretty face. A seductive face or an Honest one. Just because you are not a manipulator does not mean people are not capable of believing you are. The hardest thing in creation is to force anyone to change. Be it their beliefs, their actions or their very self."
(25/10/09 06:08:47) Nuwa sighs. "If someone is so intransigently convinced that I'm a liar that he will not believe me even when I use Truth Shines Like The Sun, then they will never believe me if I'm not."
(25/10/09 06:12:59) Ziyad: "What I am trying to say though is that against those of us that know you already speak the truth or suspect that you lie whatever you try, using such a trick serves no purpose. And against those that do NOT know you makes them suspicious and less likely to trust you. This is not a philosophical discussion Nuwa is this what has happened in the not so recent past."
(25/10/09 06:14:09) Nuwa: "The more obvious it is that someone is speaking the truth the more suspicious it is? That seems a strange thing to believe."
(25/10/09 06:16:26) Ziyad: "Your naivity astonds me sometimes. The first part of any deception requires gaining the trust of those you choose to decieve. Forcing the issue like this will always cause those without your knowledge of how the charm works to become suspicious, as anyone pushing the issue of the truth is believed to be decieving them. The fact that you appear to be telling the truth the first time is part of the... act, so to speak."

(the scene ended here as it became apparent that there was OOC disagreement about the role and properties of UMI)