Midnight RPG - Notes on Zal's Becoming

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Names:

1. Zal'Kazzir Ghulvenne, his original human name. This name has -NO- power over Zal/Za'al and cannot be used to call or summon him. 2. Za'al, his new abyssal name, his name as a demon. This name can be used to call him or summon him, which is why he sent it to Aradil. There is also a chance that if Vrolk or anyone else is not fluent in Abyssal, they may think his name is 'Kepak' or 'Kepak Za'al', but this is incorrect and should not work to summon or call; 'Kepak' is a title, meaning Lord, and not part of his name. This is Zal's equivalent of the name 'Belal'; it is his name, and can be used magically, but grants no special power. 3. Fazhitazorilnavenath (pronounced Fah-zee-tazor-il-nah-veh-nath), his TRUE name. This name can be used to summon or call, and also grants the caller additional power over Za'al. This is Zal's equivalent of the name 'Nazif' and grants power over the named. This name is only known to two beings; Za'al and Vipheri. This name has been posted on the wiki on Zal's Grimoire page since we first did the ritual with Vipheri. http://wiki.rpg.net/index.php/Zal%27Kazzir%27s_Grimoire


Background:

I honestly never gave much thought to what the truenaming ritual looked like, but I think a pretty cool visual would be the idea of Zal being intuitively aware of it, while bloody letters formed across his face and hands so that Vipheri could know it as well.

What Vrolk has, and what he can do with it:

Vrolk has Za'al's name, and Vrolk can summon or call him, which would suck either way. A Greater Planar Binding Spell could be used, to which I would get a will save to resist, but if I failed he would have me; at least for a while. This would be one of those "love to hate it" kind of moments I think. He has no additional special power over me, but he is potent enough, he probably wouldn't need any.



Contents

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Remember how you were asking us before whether turning evil precluded one from having a Heroic Path? I think most of us didn't think so, and I still feel that way. However, I was looking through the prestige classes on Darkness Falls last night, and I discovered this little gem on the Collaborator:

Requirements

Skills: Bluff 8 ranks, Diplomacy 8 ranks, Sense Motive 8 ranks. Feats: Deceitful or Negotiator, Magecraft Alignment: Chaotic neutral or true neutral. Special: Must be able to speak the Black Tongue.

Interesting, eh? It doesn't explicitly say so in the class description the way it does with a paladin (or bladebond), but it seems to me like any class with a specific alignment requirement like that would be adversely affected if the character changed to an incompatible alignment. I don't know exactly how, but it's worth considering. (I've even got one potential suggestion for you, although I think it'd end up hurting the rest of us more than Zal ... )


==[edit]

A lot of the collaborator's abilities revolve around using evil for non-evil purposes, particularly the later ones, where he gets to "tap into" Izrador's power in order to gain access to spells normally accessible only to the faithful, or convince demons and spirits to do his bidding willingly. Maybe, when he crossed that line and became genuinely evil, Izrador suddenly "found" where he'd spliced himself into the evil-pipe. Maybe he still has all the same abilities, but he's no longer REALLY in control of them anymore, because they're now being granted willingly by the Shadow.

The thing is, there's a difference between what happens to a paladin or bladebond who breaks his vow and what's happening here. When Durgaz broke his vow, he was going off the path he'd set for himself, and he needed to "correct" himself to get back on it. But with Zal, this IS the logical progression of the path he's chosen. So just flat-out taking his powers away until he "corrects" doesn't seem quite right. However, by actually falling to evil, he has ceased to be a solitary individual secretly siphoning off power from the Dark God and channeling it elsewhere, and just become another of Izrador's countless evil servitors.

So I say there's no real need to directly strip him of any of his powers. However, they are now knowingly being granted to him by the Shadow, meaning that there is no guarantee whatsoever that they will work as he expects them to. They'll work just as long as the results please the thing that powers them.

See what I mean when I say it tends to be worse for the rest of us than for him? That's probably technically true, but it just strikes me as thematically appropriate somehow.

However, I'd be interested to see what you come up with as well. The only thing I don't necessarily think appropriate would be making him "make amends" or "atone" the way a paladin does, because he hasn't really done anything "wrong", per se. He's just failed to stop at the edge of the precipice.

==[edit]

> What about when summoned? > Do they form a new body? Or have to possess something when beign summoned?

They don't have to possess something when summoned. You're right, the magic of the spell forms the body. The distinction is that the outsider isn't capable of forming the body on its own. The outsider doesn't form it, the magic of the spell does.

> But my question is how would any character "know" what that > vulnerability IS unless they just test it? For example - I haven't > ever rolled for Zal's vulnerability... When I do, does HE know what > it is? How would anyone else know?

Eh. Re-read the rules and come up with something. But it shouldn't be as hard as finding out a truename or where someone last left their car keys. I imagine that there's going to be some clues whether the outsider likes it or not. Like, an outsider with vulnerability to cold iron might have little patches of scales in various places that seem to refract a rainbow when light hits it right. If you know something about the creatures (skill check) then you'd know that the scales mean a vulnerability to cold iron.

The skill rolls and such are an abstraction that make it possible to determine a vulnerability ON THE FLY. I think it's totally valid to say this doesn't apply to a PC, and it'll be a little harder to get Zal's vulnerability - but when we encounter succubi, there aught to be a way for the four of us to determine a vul. during a first-encounter fight.

-Bill



Original Message -----------

From: kevin perrine <kevperrine@yahoo.com> To: bill@wiltfong.net, steve powell <spowell1632@gmail.com> Cc: "A. White" <stoobley@yahoo.com> Sent: Tue, 4 Mar 2008 19:38:13 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: Zal's evilness and Heroic Paths

> > > > Kevin, read this: > > http://darknessfalls.leaderdesslok.com/world_creatures-trapped.htm > > > > I've read all that from the Midnight core book earlier today. I'm > just having a hard time deciphering since I don't have the lexicon > in my head... Plus I'm sorta sick today. ugh... > > > However, he can NEVER just "reform." Outsiders possess, they don't "form" > > anything. > > What about when summoned? > Do they form a new body? Or have to possess something when beign summoned? > > I thought if summoned they just appear, with the mage forming their body. > > > One thing I need to be clear on is that there is NO SUCH THING as a "normal" > > vulnerability. ALL outsiders have RANDOM vulnerabilities. A demon might > > actually be vulnerable to fire. Or bone. You never know just by looking at > > the thing. So it shouldn't necessarily be as hard as finding a hidden > > treasure for every creature we face. I think that's why there are so many > > options for finding the vulnerability - otherwise no outsider would ever die. > > > > But my question is how would any character "know" what that > vulnerability IS unless they just test it? For example - I haven't > ever rolled for Zal's vulnerability... When I do, does HE know what > it is? How would anyone else know? > > > However, Knowledge (spirits) MIGHT work, simply because Kyuad has been > > observing Zal for some time, and that's probably the most appropriate skill to > > represent an inference based on how Zal has subconsciously responded to > > various things in his surroundings, and how Kyuad would filter that through > > his knowledge of trapped spirits in general. But yeah, it's up to you. > > > > Oh... you see - I can understand that. > Good definition. > > thanks > -kev- > >


==[edit]

Kevin, read this: http://darknessfalls.leaderdesslok.com/world_creatures-trapped.htm


> I'm a little unknowledgable about exactly what/why this means not > being overly familiar with D&D in general. So "native" means that is > their home plane? On their home plane they CAN be killed > permanently?

As I understand it, an outsider is simply a creature that isn't a natural (or magically natural) creature on the common material plane. The Native subtype is applied to outsiders that are partially from this plane.

== (from the SRD) Native Subtype: A subtype applied only to outsiders. == These creatures have mortal ancestors or a strong connection to the == Material Plane and can be raised, reincarnated, or resurrected just as == other living creatures can be. Creatures with this subtype are native to == the Material Plane (hence the subtype’s name). Unlike true outsiders, == native outsiders need to eat and sleep.

I don't think this really describes Zal's condition. But, in Midnight the design is such that Outsiders are trapped spirits and therefore cannot have the Native subtype. I admit I'm a little hazy on this too, but I also don't think it's worth worrying about because Native just isn't a possible option in Midnight.

> That's what I did... that's correct right?

Yes, I think that everything you've done with the way astiraxes are handled in combat has been correct so far.

> So any Outsider POSSESSING a body would be the same. Correct?

An astirax IS an outsider possessing a body. So the way astiraxes have been handled is the exact same way other outsiders will be handled, yes. A succubus, Faravor, etc. The exception is the body left behind, which is going to be dead if the spirit leaves it (read on for more on this).

Other trapped spirits like elementals are a little different, but not THAT different. I think that it's entirely likely that the earth elemental that comprised the necromental is now going to be capable of going on to manifest a new earth elemental body if it so wishes. Away from the influence of the eye it wouldn't be necrotic.

> But any Outsider being summoned or manifesting its own body ONLY > disipates going incorporeal when its BODY is reduced to zero hit > points. Then or if it's hit points are reduced to zero from damage > that gets through its Damage Resistance type (whatever that is) > kills it completely... Right?

A creature summoned has an artificially-created temporary body, and may not necessarily BE the type of spirit that normally would be the creature summoned. For example, a trapped spirit is summoned when Eranon summons dolphins, but that spirit might normally be a fire elemental or a faerie. Regardless, when the magically-created body is destroyed or the spell ends, the spirit goes back to floating around bodiless like it was before.

An outsider doesn't really manifest it's own body, per se. It possesses something else and transforms THAT to its own body. But, in the case of finding a demon that possessed a farmboy a long time ago and transformed the body into a demon, then the demon's spirit can choose to leave the body at any time (which it likely WON'T because that would be stupid). It will be forced out of the body if the body is killed and the spirit is not. If the body is attacked by something keyed to its vulnerability, then the spirit dies (and handle that as you like - I enjoy the cinematic-ness of the spirit flying out to die where we can see it).

> Belal could go incorporeal anytime... float incorporeal as they can, > then reform as he likes?

Belal could go incorporeal anytime, yes. Read the rules on being Bodiless, there are a lot of limitations on this. It sucks, on the whole.

However, he can NEVER just "reform." Outsiders possess, they don't "form" anything. So Belal could jump from his body into that of a worg, and attempt to possess it. If Belal fails, then he can attempt to possess something else, but if his old body effectively became an imp, then the host he once possessed is dead. Outsiders cannot possess dead bodies. So Belal just jumped out of his body, killing it, failed to possess the worg, and is up a creek. Of course, if you are making exceptions for Belal, that makes sense and he's not totally up a creek (Zal CAN call him again), but until some solution comes along Belal would be bodiless and wishing he weren't.

Outsiders that are in the process of transforming the body they possess (like Zal has done to his old Sarcosan body) might jump out, because their old host IS NOT dead yet, and they have a better chance of getting back into it because it's mind is tanked down to 0. But once it has transformed, you better believe they aren't giving that up easily.

Also, astiraxes don't transform. They effectively possess a living creature of the Animal type at all times. So if they leave, that animal is still alive. Being that they only possess animals, they have a pretty easy time of it since animals usually have poor stats for resisting that sort of thing.

> Is it "either" [magic or a specific material for vulnerabilities] or both?

Magic is an option on the randomizing chart. It has a note that channelers can spend spell energy free-form to create barriers against creatures with this limitation. Check out the rules on vulnerabilities, it's pretty clear. Another option, just to give an example, is wood. So a +1 weapon isn't going to be that creature's vulnerability, unless it's made of wood.

> BUT - my caveat is always HOW HOW HOW would you (Kyuad) have that info?? > [regarding an outsider's vulnerability] I can't agree that just > because "according to the rules" it really makes any sense that Kyuad > (or anyone) would have access to that information.

You should read the rules on vulnerabilities. All of the methods you listed as ways of finding out a vulnerability are valid, according to the rules, and good ideas. And it does say that it's at the GM's discretion.

One thing I need to be clear on is that there is NO SUCH THING as a "normal" vulnerability. ALL outsiders have RANDOM vulnerabilities. A demon might actually be vulnerable to fire. Or bone. You never know just by looking at the thing. So it shouldn't necessarily be as hard as finding a hidden treasure for every creature we face. I think that's why there are so many options for finding the vulnerability - otherwise no outsider would ever die.

The way we've described Zal's Knowledge (spirits) skills before, I think it's totally valid that he could roll the skill on a specific thing like Faravor, and if the roll's high enough then he's heard stuff about the guy that gives him the vulnerability. Kyuad's more of a functional and fact-based guy, so at least the DC aught to be higher. But still, that's in relation to a speicific and known outsider, due to the fact that they've been around forever. Zal might not even know his vulnerability yet, so I'd say the Lorebook won't have any information on it since there's no way Kyuad has run into something that would have it.

However, Knowledge (spirits) MIGHT work, simply because Kyuad has been observing Zal for some time, and that's probably the most appropriate skill to represent an inference based on how Zal has subconsciously responded to various things in his surroundings, and how Kyuad would filter that through his knowledge of trapped spirits in general. But yeah, it's up to you.

> Please define this for me. > I suck at understanding [DR]

Read this: http://dndsrd.net/abilitiesAndConditions.html#damage-reduction and this: http://dndsrd.net/monsterTypes.html#damage-reduction

The basic answer is that if something has DR, it probably has a key for that DR that overcomes it. If the key is chaotic, evil, or chaotic and evil, then Zal has that key.

From a design perspective, most DR is built to either have one key or multiple keys, but never multiple options for keys. You don't see DR 10/Good or silver. The key can be Good, it can be silver, and it can be Good and silver both (meaning a Lawful silver weapon ignores none of the DR), but it's not one or the other.

-Bill