Theresa: A question: Are we bringing the Aides with us too?
Brian: I thought we were?
Theresa: I wasn't sure about it. I thought that they might be sent back to the Chancel once we got going on the road.
DanteE: didn't Kudzu say bring everybody?
DanteE: I seem to recall we were bringing Monty and Lesson on hos order
Theresa: I knew that he wanted us to take Monty and Lesson, but I didn't think he ever talks about the Aides.
Random_Nerd: You at least had them come.
Random_Nerd: To the moon.
Random_Nerd: Kudzu didn't dictate about them, only Monty and Lesson.
DanteE: well, we will need them to call ahead...
Theresa: *nod* I'd like to take them with us. Plenty of room. :)
Random_Nerd: Great, now I'm imagining you guys building a giant howdah for Monty and putting the Clock Tower on top.
DanteE: well, it's not like we can't do that...
Brian: who says we weren't planning on that?
Theresa: Who said build? :)
Theresa: Theresa would have created a nice sturdy container for us all on top of Monty.
Random_Nerd: So, are we all ready?
Random_Nerd: Or is there something else to do before we start?
Theresa: I think I'm ready.
Brian: ready as I'm giong to be
Carrie: Still only semi-here, but I don't want to hold anything up.
Random_Nerd: Ah, okay. We can wait a bit longer.
Carrie: Really, I'd suggest starting and I'll catch up.
Carrie: Unless you really need my input for something.
Theresa: How long would the travel time be?
Theresa: (And is Lesson in his suit?)
Random_Nerd: (He is. You haven't seen him out of it since he got it.)
DanteE: (...it must really stink...)
Random_Nerd: (Yeah, it does some. Brimstone and such.)
Theresa: (He probably has more than just one suit.)
Random_Nerd: (Yeah, he does by now.)
Random_Nerd: (But even still, he has a pervasive scent of Lessonness. Metallic, almost.)
Theresa: (Makes sense from what we've seen of his blood and the stuff inside Monty and so forth. Hmm, does Monty have any reaction to Lesson?)
DanteE: OK, so... let's get our Aides to call ahead...
Random_Nerd: Ready to start?
Random_Nerd: You're on Monty's moon. You have Lesson, Monty, and the two Aides present.
Theresa: "The car should be fine here. Does anyone have anything to take care of before we leave the planet?"
DanteE: "William, Samuel... can you call ahead to Barakiel's group?"
Random_Nerd: William: "They do have several Aides in-chancel. It would be easy enough to get a message across."
Theresa: "Being a surprise is probably bad."
- Theresa has LCed a nice sturdy riding platform for all of us.
DanteE: "Anybody know how long this trip will take?"
Theresa: "Well, first we have to convert miles into spirtimiles and then that into bunny hops..."
Random_Nerd: Samuel: "Well, we're going mythically, which makes the timing unreliable. I have no idea how fast the rabbit can move. And I'm not sure how far it is to Jupiter."
Brian: "About an hour?"
Brian: "But if you ask if we're there yet, I'm going to push you off the bunny."
Carrie: "We will get there in time, I have no doubt."
Random_Nerd: W: "Between an hour and a day, I imagine."
Random_Nerd: (Hmm. Do the Aides know she has that Gift?)
Theresa: "But time for what?"
Theresa: (And how long do we have to do this? A week?)
DanteE: "We can use the time to figure out exactly what we're going to do...
DanteE: (Remind me: did we tell the Aides what's going on?)
Theresa: "Hmm, if it takes a day there and a possible day back, we only have a few days to change the mind of a nigh-unstoppable power of the universe. Lucky us."
Brian: (I don't remember)
Theresa: (I don't think we have, just that we wanted info and an invite to Jupiter.)
DanteE: "Well, that's just it...
DanteE: "All we know is, Kudzu disagrees with how Barakiel voted the last few times the millennium came up.
Random_Nerd: (Yeah. You told them to come to the moon with Lesson, that you need an invite to Locus Barakiel, and so on, but not the details. And I believe you implied that Kudzu was involved.)
DanteE: "If he's planning to vote the other way. we're done.
Brian: (if by "imply" you mean "stated explicitly". That part I remember)
Random_Nerd: (Well, it's less a matter of voting than influencing the four guys who do have a vote, but yeah.)
DanteE: "William, Samuel... here's the situation:
DanteE: "Kudzu wants us to go talk to Barakiel, and get him to change his position for ... the big meeting?
Theresa: "No, it's not that he's voting for A when Kudzu is for B. It's that no matter what he votes, every time he's been wrong. He could have voted for the sky to be blue and we'd be talking about what a beautiful yellow the air is at dawn..."
Theresa: *to the Aides* "What is the vote about, if you know?" (Nice or Nasty, in different terms, RN?)
Random_Nerd: (Kudzu was vague, probably deliberately so. But he said it had to do with the approach to the coming age.)
Theresa: "And do we know what the votes were for any of the previous ages?"
Random_Nerd: (Not really.)
Theresa: (I was more asking the Aides, I think. Or whomever can tap the Library.O)
Random_Nerd: (Ah, okay.)
Random_Nerd: W: "What do you mean by votes?"
DanteE: "Whatever he plans to convince the guys in charge to do"
Random_Nerd: W: "Well, we dont' really have records of private dealings between Imperators."
Theresa: "Well, the Big Four are in charge. They and whomever is the Honcho of the Age decide what the...ambience? of the millenia will be. Other Nobles and Imperators try to get things so that their Estates get a better or bigger slice of the life-pie. So, they shmooze."
Random_Nerd: W: "Let's see. End of ages. I know that Barakiel publicly took a neutral position to Lucifer's Fall, but was believed to be privately supporting him."
Theresa: (Does the Honcho of the Age always become part of the Council?)
Random_Nerd: (The Imperators of the Third, Second, and First ages haven't been on the council.)
Theresa: (But the Fourth is. Or at least is _now_.)
Random_Nerd: (But there hasn't always been a Council of Four. It showed up as a reaction to the War.)
Theresa: (Huh. *thinks*)
DanteE: (isn't Ananda the Power of the next age?)
Random_Nerd: (The Council was founded in the third age, the current one.)
Random_Nerd: (About a thousand years ago.)
- Theresa muses quietly. "What if Ananda turns out to be _worse_ than Entropy?"
Random_Nerd: (And it's not universe-wide in authority.)
DanteE: "What are the odds that the millennium will fizzle and nothing will happen, like with the Y2K bug?"
Random_Nerd: (Just Earth. And for the purposes of this, Jupiter and the other planets count as "earth.")
Theresa: "I think the fizzle will be the Phoenix. And then there will be the loud ka-boom."
Random_Nerd: S: "I wouldn't bet on it."
Random_Nerd: S: "The last ones have been big."
Random_Nerd: S: "And possibly getting bigger."
Theresa: "The end of the first age was the Fall. The end of the second was the arrival of the Excrucians. Wow, we have to top that?"
Brian: "Nothing requiring us to."
Brian: "In fact, I'd very much rather not."
DanteE: "Any indication on Barakiel's current position?"
Brian: "I mean, the best case that does all that would be, what? The end of humanity? That's something I'd prefer not seeing..."
DanteE: "Well, we know there will be a fourth age, otherwise, why have Ananda?"
Theresa: "I prefer to think more positive. Peace between Imperator factions. The end of the Camms." *thinks* "Humans and Dionyls becoming Imperical? That wouild be big."
Brian: "Remember that the Ages aren't tied to the mortal races, Dante..."
Theresa: "It might be a four age that we don't get to see. He could be in charge of an age of one."
Theresa: (Can we have started moving down the road? Good traveling conversation. And who's steering the rabbit?)
DanteE: (Sara! :D )
DanteE: (Depends... did they call ahead?)
Random_Nerd: (You asked them if they could, but I don't believe anyone said to.)
Theresa: (Okay, sure, Sara can be driving. <G>)
Brian: (I thought I had ordered them to?)
Brian: (like, three weeks ago or whenever it was)
DanteE: "Well, word from on high is that we need to talk to them anyway. William, Samuel, set it up."
DanteE: "Just tell them ... ah ...
Theresa: " ' Our Imperator is sending us on a road trip.' "
DanteE: "we'd like to talk about it on Kudzu's behalf."
Random_Nerd: (Ah, okay.)
DanteE: "Or that, if it works."
Random_Nerd: William touches his ear-sphere.
Theresa: "True, they don't have a Wildlord for a boss. Still, they've probably heard about them. Sam, what _is_ the general opinion about Wildlords among those who know?"
DanteE: "while you're at it, can you tell us the general opinion of Kudzu?"
Random_Nerd: S: "Okay, Wildlords in general. Odd. Perhaps slightly distrusted by certain fanatics, but not by the whole. Better reputation on the whole than Hell worse than Heaven."
Theresa: "What's the fanatical position? Might be good to hear it in case they decide to pay us a visit or track us down."
Random_Nerd: S: "Well, they came from Outside. Some of the old Imperators distrust anything from Outside."
Random_Nerd: S: "But there's no real sign that the WIldlords are disloyal."
DanteE: (He's typing in an elaborate description of Kudzu)
Random_Nerd: S: "And there are other Outsiders that aren't hostile. I believe the current school of thought is that the Excrucians are not the only Imperial beings of wherever they come from. There are certainly things other than them out there, since High Summonings work."
Random_Nerd: S: "But let's see... Kudzu."
Random_Nerd: S: "Old, for a Wildlord. Decently connected. Out of favor with the Council. Fond of humanity, for a Wildlord."
Random_Nerd: S: "Deliberately mysterious."
DanteE: "Can you elaborate on 'Out of favor with the COuncil'?
Theresa: "Given our task, so not surprised."
Random_Nerd: S: "Entropy and Kudzu are not on speaking terms. That's not unheard of, but Kudzu is a bit more blatant about it."
Random_Nerd: S: "And he's built no real connections with the other three."
Theresa: "Not on speaking terms...I am both very proud of the boss and yet terrified."
DanteE: "Well, it's not like he arranges stars to spell out 'Entropy Sux' ... is it?"
- DanteE looks up...
Random_Nerd: W: "I'm sorry we don't have more for you on your Imperator. It's only that, for all that he seems not to be open with you, he's far less so with most others."
Theresa: "Not tonight, at least."
Theresa: "As for humanity...Kudzu wants to see what we can do. Really do. Because he knew we were supposed to be something else..."
DanteE: "... maybe that's it. What's Entropy's view of Humanity?"
Brian: "More importantly, perhaps, what's Barakiel's?"
Random_Nerd: S: "Let's see. Entropy has contempt for anything less than a Noble, and he's not too fond of Nobles."
Theresa: "The whole beast/master law thing."
Random_Nerd: W: "Barakiel... he's harder to read. He's spent a long time in Hell, and he had human slaves there. But on the other hand, he was one of the Watchers, and if the legends are true at all they were trying to enhance humanity."
Theresa: "He'd probably be fine if the War ended and life could go back to unChanceled unNobled Imperators flitting about the universe."
Theresa: (That ebing Entropy)
Theresa: (being even. *sigh*)
Theresa: "When did he get released? Was it before the Fall, some other time?"
Random_Nerd: W: "He was released... most recently, a few dozen years ago."
Random_Nerd: W: "Barakiel and Heaven do not always see eye to eye."
DanteE: "So, it's possible Kudzu wants us to convince Barakiel to argue in favor of humanity?"
Random_Nerd: William shrugs.
Theresa: "Do we know why he was given parole?"
Brian: "Dante, as we were told, Kudzu isn't in favour of any position, really. It's just that Barakiel's wrong."
Random_Nerd: W: "He spent out the terms of his sentence, as I understand it."
Theresa: (And that makes sense. Lesson was something from Hell, possibly still crated from the move...metaphorically.)
DanteE: "If that were true, we'd be arguing in favor of adjournment."
Theresa: "I think Kudzu just wants us to argue."
Brian: "... we're not arguing /for/ anything. We're arguing /against/ something."
DanteE: "If that were true we wouldn't be arguing _with_ Barakiel"
DanteE: "... OK, wait, Kudzu's starting to get to me. William, Samuel, what's the word from Jupiter?"
Random_Nerd: W: "Okay, we've sent word ahead. They seemed a bit puzzled, but you'll be welcomed."
Random_Nerd: W: "Perhaps not the whole official banners and parades welcome, but you won't be turned away either."
DanteE: "They're puzzled? Well, at least we'll have something in common."
DanteE: "Shall we saddle up and ride?"
Theresa: "That's nice. Darn, we should have brought something."
Theresa: "Leaving is good."
DanteE: "We still can. Snow's just been skritching Monty's ears..."
Brian: "Anyone bring the sandwiches? Or shall I just ask T to make us a nice salad?"
Theresa: "You were in charge of food delivery, o lord of the cheeseburgers."
Brian: "Hm. They don't deliver up here."
Brian: "I'm sure they'd /try/, though."
Theresa: "Yes, so we should get going before they reinvent the space program and get lost in outside of the borders."
DanteE: "Well, this is a business trip, sort of. I think we can hold off on the gifts."
Theresa: "Since we seem to be bringing stuff to show and tell?"
- Theresa will make sure that eveyrone has a seat/something to hold onto, seat belt and so forth. Uhhh, what are we going to do about Sam?
Random_Nerd: (In what respect?)
DanteE: (Didn't you create a howdah?)
Theresa: (Yep. And in the respect of that a seatbelt would hold down someone who is solid. With Sam, it'd just crush his scarves, yes?_
Theresa: ( ) even)
Random_Nerd: (Effectively, he's solid.)
Random_Nerd: (He can interact with matter in a comperable way, at least)
Theresa: (Okay, just wanted to make sure that everyone is okay at traveling at giant-rabbit speeds. Brian should clock us. <G>)
Brian: (*starts stopwatch*?)
Theresa: (Okay, I'm ready for the rabbit to move.)
DanteE: "All aboard! Snow, let him know which way to go, OK?"
Random_Nerd: Cue Monty jumping.
Random_Nerd: It's a bumpy ride. A very bumpy ride. But it's also incredibly fast.
DanteE: (Lemme know if you see a floating astronaut, we'll pick him up.)
Theresa: (Would Aspect 2 let me keep all of my teeth from falling out from impact? :) )
Random_Nerd: (Talk on the road, or cut to arrival?)
Theresa: (Cut to arrival is fine with me.)
Random_Nerd: The mythic path you're on proceeds to the center of the Great Red Spot of Jupiter.
- Theresa does the tourist thing. No snapshots, though.
Random_Nerd: (And here, I wish this were a visual medium, because this would be quite a shot.)
DanteE: (doing what looks like a Sundive right into the Great Red Spot?)
Random_Nerd: It proceeds through the grabbing and swirling hands of the Spot, and the chitinous fish and birds that live there, into a great gate.
Random_Nerd: And as you pass the chancel wall, you feel your sight... change.
Random_Nerd: Okay, now, you know how on Earth there are two separate ways to see the world, Mythic and Prosaic?
Random_Nerd: It's like that in-chancel, too. But the choices are different. One's a vaguely classical place of marble, granite, and gold. And the other is a hell-world of rust and blood.
Random_Nerd: Which do each of you choose to see?
Theresa: (The angel's schizophrenic?)
DanteE: "This looks ... familiar ..."
Random_Nerd: William looks sick.
Random_Nerd: Samuel curls his scarves in on himself, folding up his humanoid form into something like a big bowling ball of cloth, for a moment.
- Theresa palms William a vial of peppermint oil. "You guys okay?"
Theresa: (I pick rust and blood.)
Random_Nerd: W: "...I think so."
Random_Nerd: Samuel uncurls again.
Random_Nerd: S: "This is a strange place."
DanteE: "Can you guys see the classical palace, or just the rust & blood?"
Brian: (not blood)
Theresa: (Is it obvious to us that we make a choice in how we see it? And Martyrs is from here right?)
Random_Nerd: (It's clear that you can make a choice.)
Random_Nerd: W: "They're all... mixed together. I'm trying to get it straight. I need to take shamanism classes."
Random_Nerd: S: "I... think I can probably pick one. Which do you want me to see?"
DanteE: "Concentrate on the marble, you'll feel better."
Random_Nerd: S: "I don't think I can leave one, once I'm in the pull of one of the worlds."
Random_Nerd: Samuel nods.
Theresa: (Leave one? I'm confused.)
Random_Nerd: William closes his eyes and seems to be concentrating.
Theresa: (Ahh, never mind.)
Theresa: "I see blood. I'll stay there for contrast and hey, sanity, crutch, etc, etc."
- DanteE makes an effort to check out both.
DanteE: "Anyone see a landing pad?"
DanteE: "Or a reception committee?"
Brian: "Iin a couple seconds, there will be a landing pad."
- Theresa will coo soothingly at Monty. Or the Monty-spirit.
Random_Nerd: Okay, at both of them, there's a big gate.
Random_Nerd: It's made of either shining gold, or iron, intestines, and fire.
Theresa: (What's Lesson's reaction to this place?)
Random_Nerd: Lesson is sitting very still.
DanteE: (intestines? Ick.)
Random_Nerd: L: "I've... seen that before."
Random_Nerd: Monty is nonplussed.
Random_Nerd: At the gate, a group of either knights in shining armor or horned demons with blood dripping from their mouths is waiting for you.
Theresa: "The gate, Lesson? What do it look like to you?"
DanteE: "Did we take a wrong turn at Albequerque and wind up in hell?"
Random_Nerd: L: "This is the gate of the Realm of Barakiel."
Theresa: (We had told Lesson where we were going, right?)
Random_Nerd: L: "This is Hell."
DanteE: "Does he like the decor?
Random_Nerd: W: "...nor am I out of it?"
Theresa: "I thought the Realm of Barakiel was Jupiter?"
Random_Nerd: (Yeah, you told Lesson. He's just a bit unsettled to be here.)
DanteE: (What did W say?)
Theresa: (Can miracles of Courage affect Lesson anymore?)
Random_Nerd: (Faust quote.)
Random_Nerd: (No, they can't. He's an Anchor.)
Random_Nerd: W: "I think we're in Hell /and/ on Jupiter."
Random_Nerd: Lesson gets out of the car.
Theresa: "And we're not staying, Lesson. Just a job for Kudzu and then we go home and you'll have the rest of the Bureu shaking in fear again."
Random_Nerd: (Err, off the rabbit.)
DanteE: "Well... Kudzu did say he wanted Lesson along.... and as usual didn't say why..."
- Theresa also slides down off of the rabbit. Long slide with a flip at the end. Will grow stairs for those who want them.
DanteE: "Everybody remember where we parked."
Brian: "I think the rabbit's coming with us..."
Brian: "We were to show him off to Barakiel for something"
Random_Nerd: L, to demon-knights: "These are the Nobles of Chancel Amyra. Show your necks to them, you wretches, or face the consequences."
DanteE: "Good point:
Theresa: (Go Lesson!)
Random_Nerd: They seem to hesitate for a moment, glance at the size of the rabbit, and then bow down in a very low and uncomfortable-looking wya.
Random_Nerd: (Err, way.)
Theresa: "Lesson, will the gate be large enough for Monty? He is to enter too."
Random_Nerd: L: "Rabbit too big. Gate too small. But wall more fragile than rabbit."
Brian: "Wall also more mutable than rabbit"
Random_Nerd: Consequences, at that moment, steps out of the gate. He looks the same in both worlds.
Theresa: "But we're guests. No need to cause property damage."
Random_Nerd: C: "So, to what do we owe the honor of this visit?"
DanteE: "Yeah, but busting through it is probably a major breach of etiquette."
Brian: "He's not with us. Nor, really telling us why we're his emissaries in this particular mission"
- Theresa smiles. "The usual Noble cry of "My Imperator sent me.""
Random_Nerd: L: "This is Hell. 'Power justifies itself.' Rabbit more strongly justified than wall."
DanteE: "Easy, Lesson."
Random_Nerd: Consequences: "This isn't /exactly/ Hell."
Brian: "Remember the fact that I can make the gate large enough for the bunny?"
DanteE: "Your boss just likes the decor?"
Random_Nerd: Consequences, to the PCs: "Wait, that's the demon?"
Theresa: (It's Hell-flavored Jupiter. Demons don't know it's not Hell!)
Brian: "Well, unless it's guarded by Auctoritas or something.
DanteE: "Yes, indeed...
Theresa: "Yes, we thought we'd bring him and Monty and our Aides along. I always have trouble traveling lightly."
Brian: (ssh, we've replaced their usual Hell with Folger's Crystals. let's see if they notice?)
Random_Nerd: C: "As my Imperator has explained it, we occupy the midpoint between his two Realms."
Random_Nerd: C: "I believe this required a rather more elaborate and complicated Enchanceling, but he thought it necessary given his... situation."
DanteE: "The short version is, our boss wants us to talk to your boss about what he'll be telling the Council of Four... and asked us to bring the demon and the rabbit."
Random_Nerd: C: "So you're as puzzled by this as I am?"
DanteE: "Though we do want to talk to you first. No sense talking to an angel without proper prep."
Theresa: "Oh, definitely. Wildlord, ya know."
Brian: "Specifically, we were told to tell your boss he's wrong."
Random_Nerd: William, in the background, opens his eyes again and squints.
Brian: "Not why he's wrong or what he's wrong about, just that he's wrong."
DanteE: to the Aides: "You guys holding it together?"
Random_Nerd: C: "Excuse me? Tell him he's what?"
Brian: "That's our orders."
Random_Nerd: S: "Yeah." W: "I'm working on it."
- Brian shrugs
Brian: "I bet I like it even less than you do."
DanteE: "We're trying to sort out the best way to proceed."
Theresa: "It could be some sort of testing. He's been doing that a lot. We may need to argue with an Imperator and then tell him how we did when we come back in our next reincarnation."
DanteE: "Oh, reminds me...
DanteE: "In the interim we got a new Sister Caelestis."
Random_Nerd: (Mind if we stop soon?)
Brian: "Snow, the sometimes-coyote"
Brian: (I'm good for that)
Theresa: (Does Carrie/Eve count as new?)
DanteE: (Yeah, Snow should be here for her intro. :)
Theresa: (Stopping is good. HAve to be up early tomorrow. :P )
DanteE: (No, Carrie was here at the party.)
Random_Nerd: (And she's Carrie at the moment.)
Theresa: (True, but Eve's a new development.)
DanteE: (Eve's not here, tho)
Theresa: (And we still haven't figured out what sort of timer the two of them are on. :) )
Random_Nerd: (A perfect one.)
Brian: (how 'bout we hit the stop button here, as we're going to paranthetical speak?)
DanteE: (that works)
Random_Nerd: (Works for me.)
- Brian is now known as Lazarus.
- Carrie is now known as Etheric.
- Brian is now known as Lazarus.
Etheric: Sorry about that, guys... One thing led to another... I was there for the last 30 minutes but couldn't figure out how to make an entrance.
Theresa: Too bad you can't use Aspect to figure out emotional responses of the guys that are Bara's Nobles.
- You are now known as BethE.
- DanteE is now known as Knockwood.
- You are now known as BethE.
BethE: 's okay.
Knockwood: Yeah we can.
Random_Nerd: Nah. They look like humanoid blind sports, almost.
Knockwood: remember, I was able to catch Conseq's hesitation when I cold-called him.
Random_Nerd: Oh, true, you can get stuff like that, that's auditory.
Random_Nerd: But in terms of facial expressions and body language, Unfathomable wipes out all but the most obvious of that.
BethE: But studying his face is out because it jsut looks like...*face*
Random_Nerd: So, it'd probably be an aspect level higher to do it just based on voice.
BethE: I liked the guards bowing. Lesson has quite the spine, but then again he knows the rules of Hell better.
Random_Nerd: And impossible if he isn't talking.
Random_Nerd: Anything you guys particularly liked or disliked about the session?
Knockwood: well, considering the first rule of Hell is "Suck up or die"...
Random_Nerd: No, that's Heaven.
Random_Nerd: And it's the third rule!
Lazarus: honestly I was kind of zoned-out ... nothing really registered one way or the other on the like/dislike scale.
Knockwood: as usual, we dithered a lot. :)
BethE: Would the courage improvements Dante made on lesson still be active?
Random_Nerd: Those were set in place before he was Anchored.
Random_Nerd: Likewise the Hope.
Knockwood: Should be... he got a LC Courage when we first met
Knockwood: speaking of which... what's the word on the logs? Any progress?
Random_Nerd: They aren't as strong as when they were fresh, but they have had a lasting effect on his personality.
BethE: That might be nice to see how he reacts to Hell-people with the new courage.
BethE: I can start putting the new logs up if we have someplace on the wiki to put them.
Random_Nerd: Part of the courage, too, is his change in status.
Knockwood: want me to put up a framework on the RPG.net Wiki, or is there somewhere else they can go?
Random_Nerd: He's been put in a position where he's moderately important, has subordinates, and works for bosses that treat him well.
Random_Nerd: And while he does your bidding, you tend to only call him in to do things that're at least moderately important to you.
Knockwood: a modicum of respect.
BethE: Knock - as far as I know, the rpgnet wiki is the place to be. :)
BethE: (True, we don't have him fetch slippers or such.)
Knockwood: Can't wait for his next classmates.com reunion. :)
Random_Nerd: What do you guys think of Lesson?
Random_Nerd: I like him as an NPC, so I worry sometimes that I overuse him.
Lazarus: still one of the best characters of the bunch.
Random_Nerd: The same goes for the Aides.
BethE: I like him. Not enough to anchor him, but I like him. Theresa feels a little sorry for him, especially seeing him break down in the police station.
Knockwood: well... would it be reasonable to say Lesson's turning into your PC, RN?
Random_Nerd: Hmm. I don't know.
Etheric: I don't think so.
Random_Nerd: There are a fair amount of sessions where he doesn't show up at all.
Random_Nerd: And when he does, he's in a subordinate role to the PCs.
BethE: I don't think LEsson is RN's PC. For one thing, Lesson was barely there tonight and he was with us.
BethE: (barely verbal and was with us.)
Random_Nerd: For that matter, if one of you doesn't have a character present and wants to take over Lesson for a while, you can feel free.
Random_Nerd: Likewise the Aides.
Knockwood: remind me to put up an NPC-sheet page
Random_Nerd: Most of the sheets would be Aspect: N/A, Domain: N/A, Realm: N/A, Spirit: N/A.
Knockwood: Yeah, but they should have RP notes for just that situation
Lazarus: I would love to see a relationship chart (a la WotG) for this game
Random_Nerd: Well, my notes partly take that form, although a bit of a cross between a relationship map and a mindmap.
Lazarus: is it possible to get a relationship map out of you RN?
BethE: And they could have a list of the various known gifts given to them.
Lazarus: (not your own personal one, of course, that probably has Spoilers)
Random_Nerd: I could probably copy out the relationship map stuff.
Knockwood: (complete tangent: I've been thinking of ways to make a CPunk SotC thing... my notes are in mindmap form)
Knockwood: (an image of which is on the Wiki)
Lazarus: (on that tangent: FATE and FUDGE are completely anathema to me)
Random_Nerd: Actually, you know what I think would be interesting? To have me and one of you both make relationship maps for the game, and see how they compare and contrast.
- Etheric finds the FATE system really nice, personally.
Lazarus: FUDGE's mechanic is that you write words on your character sheet. Which, when you do something, you translate to a number, add another number to it (given by a dice roll), to get a third number, which then translates back into a word.
Lazarus: it's just ... gah!
Random_Nerd: FATE I'm not familar with.
Random_Nerd: Fudge seems... well, it's tough to talk about Fudge, since it's a toolkit sort of thing.
Random_Nerd: The core is a bit bland for me, but then that's the idea.
Lazarus: I honestly haven't read FATE itself, but it's a FUDGE based thing.
BethE: I call not-it on the mindmapmaking. :) Besides, I constantly have to be reminded of things.
Knockwood: FATE is basically Aspects for FUDGE.
Lazarus: I don't even remember half the NPCs that we have in this game :p
Knockwood: I also call not-it on the relationship map
Etheric: Um, all you need to know is that Epiic is greater than Fantastic is greater than Superb is greater than Great is greater than Good is greater than Fair is greater than Average is greater than Mediocre.
Etheric: And how to count.
Etheric: You don't need to know which number goes to which rating, only what's above and below any of the ratings.
Lazarus: Etheric: the fact is, if I ever did use FUDGE, it would turn into a standard system, 'cause I would throw out the terms. They're meaningless to me.
Etheric: And it's extremely easy if you code it into the place you're playing, like most of my GMs do.
Lazarus: it's sort of the same reason that I don't like two separate systems for chargen and advancement: it's just unnecessary complication and work.
Etheric: Well, throw them out if you want. I think they really help give a general sense of magnitude.
Knockwood: Heck, you don't even have to use those terms.
Etheric: I fail to see how it's complicated in any way.
Etheric: You don't convert back and forth the way you described.
Knockwood: "Yeah, so I've got boarding skill at, like, Awesome...."
Random_Nerd: Oh, and what did you guys think of the whole Hell/Jupiter divide?
Knockwood: "Yeah, but until you get your Academics skill above 'Sucky' you're gonna have probvlems using it."
Lazarus: the complication to me is mapping a strict ordering onto something other than numbers, just for the sheer hell of it. I, honestly, do not see the purpose in it.
Etheric: Say you roll a +3 and your skill is at Average.
Etheric: Then you count upward, three times. Fair, Good, Great.
Lazarus: re: Jupiter: I liked that split. It was neat
Etheric: That's not complicated unless you make it complicateed.
Etheric: I liked it as well.
Knockwood: Very weird
Lazarus: or, put in numerical terms, you add 0 + 3 = 3. Done.
Lazarus: No counting. Just math!
Etheric: Do you have to gues which personality is going to see things how? ;P
BethE: I thought it was interesting. Makes me wonder about Imperators with split personalities....which place/viewpoint Bara. feels more at home in. What he considers himself. Whether he could be a Wildlord by vote of hands.
Etheric: Um, sinmce when is counting not math?
Random_Nerd: Okay. I was unsure, because while I know what I'm doing with it, I also know that it probably comes across as just a Silent Hill ripoff or something.
Knockwood: I have to wondewr if everything gets mapped, including maybe us.
Random_Nerd: ...he asks Numbers...
Etheric: And, you can count to three much more quicker than you can frame the equation, 0+3. Or at least, most people can.
Lazarus: (my normal response to the "counting" thing is essentially that: that the being able to put a scale on the character sheet, and counting, is a lot more work than simple single-digit addition and subtraction)
Random_Nerd: Well, you guys are on the relationship-map-like-thing I keep. You'd have to be, because I need to keep track of how you relate to the NPCs.
BethE: Haven't seen Silent Hill and only played to the point that the radio thing made me scared, so I'm okay. :)
Etheric: More quickly, sorry to butcher the Power of English, I'm trying to Nettle his cousin the power of Anal-Retentives.
Etheric: Well, I guess our minds just work differently.
Etheric: By the time I have the numeral, three, in my mind I'd have already finished counting.
Etheric: Mind you, we're talking milliseconds of time here.
Lazarus: That's basically what I've figured out about people who love FUDGE: their brains work different from mind.
Etheric: Okay, fair enough.
Knockwood: you figure they have a brain/mind split?
Etheric: Didn't mean to invalidate your take on it, and you've explained your take well enough for me to understand.
Etheric: Knock: What does Cartesian dualism have to do with counting?
Random_Nerd: Really, to me, the Fudge thing feels spatial rather than numerical, to me.
Lazarus: I would require a lookup table, go "My stat is Fair, I rolled a 3, now, I look on this line, go Fair - Good - Great - Awesome... ok, Awesome it is" (mind, it's all thought-speak, so faster than that) whereas I could just go "My stat is 3, I rolled a 3, that's 6."
Knockwood: farther rather than more?
Random_Nerd: "To me" "to me" I think I'm Mister Redundancy Man.
Random_Nerd: Well, in that Fudge people seem to talk about things in terms of relation rather than absolute value.
Random_Nerd: I know that numbers use that stuff too, but it's not how most people use counting numbers.
Lazarus: oh, yeah. I got into a flamewar once on RPGNet re: FUDGE where they claimed that a strict ordering was unmappable onto integers x_x
Knockwood: what were they mapping it to?
Lazarus: they were saying, basically, that it was invalid to think of it as an addition operation.
Lazarus: I don't grok the argument, still.
Etheric: It's mappable onto integers, it may not map naturally though.
Random_Nerd: Don't argue number theory on rpg.net.
Etheric: I would guress they were arguing less "one can't map that" and more "it's artificial to map that."
Lazarus: it maps directly and easily. If, for instance, Average = 0, then Fair = 1 (I've got the relative positioning right?)
Lazarus: no, they were arguing the impossibility of mapping
Etheric: Because if they actually said it's mappable, they need to review second grade math.
Etheric: That's correct.
Etheric: And, er, not mappable is what I meant to say.
Random_Nerd: I remember a thread where it took people dozens, maybe hundreds of posts to accept that there are different degrees of infinity, even when faced with the Most Awesome Proof Ever.
Etheric: Those negatives will getcha every time.
Lazarus: (admittedly part of my argument was that I perceived the words as an artificial mapping from numerical values, but they ignored that side of things, too)
Etheric: Is the Most Awesome Proof Ever a thick grey book with a woodbcut of the letters "GEB" on the cover?
Random_Nerd: Nah. Cantor's Diagonalization Argument.
Lazarus: which one's that?
Etheric: Because that was the first exposure I ever had to the multiple infinities idea.
Etheric: Laz: Hofstadter's "Goedel, Escher, Bach."
Random_Nerd: Were you talking to me or Etheric, Laz?
Lazarus: you, RN.
Etheric: Oh, sorry.
Lazarus: ... my favourite involves building up a real number, but I don't remember exactly how that worked :(
Random_Nerd: Okay. It's a proof that while the set of whole numbers is infinite, as is the set of real numbers, the latter is larger.
Random_Nerd: That's the one.
- BethE waits for the stuff on the Diagonalization Arguement. Because it is one of RN's fave topics. :)
Lazarus: and then, from Aleph-1 to Aleph-2, there's a mapping from 2-space to a sphere, but I don't remember how that one works, either, just that when my friend told it to me, it was immediately obvious
Random_Nerd: Okay, so you know how there are the same number of whole numbers as there are even numbers, right?
Lazarus: of course
Random_Nerd: Okay. Good.
Random_Nerd: Now, you can tell if two sets have the same number of occupants if you can place them in one-to-one correspondence with one another, yes?
Lazarus: (I am aware of the three sizes of Infinity, just can't immediately remember the proofs)
Lazarus: of course
Random_Nerd: So, take the set of whole numbers, and assign a real number to each.
Random_Nerd: 1 : 0.04353821...
Random_Nerd: 7 : 1.3491587151771....
Random_Nerd: 3 : 0.592827291...
Random_Nerd: And so on, to fill out the whole numbers.
Knockwood: real numbers from 0-1
Random_Nerd: Doesn't matter how you assign them.
Random_Nerd: Doesn't have to be from 0 to 1, but that works too.
Knockwood: that's necessary for it to work
Random_Nerd: Now, let's take a hypothetical real number.
Knockwood: well, wait, maybe not.
Lazarus: I don't think 0-1 is necessary, but [x-y] is?
Random_Nerd: The tens place of it is /not/ 0, which is the tens place of the first in the list.
Random_Nerd: The hundreds place of it is /not/ 4, the value of the second in the list.
Random_Nerd: And so on.
Knockwood: You forgot the diagonal part of the diagonal proof
Lazarus: ah, right. That's the one I was trying to think of, RN.
Etheric: All that's necessary for it to workj is that they all be different.
Random_Nerd: Working on that now.
Random_Nerd: And so, for each real number that corresponds to a whole number, you can show that this number isn't that.
Lazarus: turns out that I was missing the initial "map I-R"
Random_Nerd: Because it differs in at least one place from each.
Lazarus: (err.. N-R?)
Lazarus: (can't remembeR)
Random_Nerd: So, there are more real numbers than whole numbers, because the set of real numbers can be set to match each whole number and still have numbers left over.
Lazarus: and then you can easily show that there's an infinite number of these "not mapped" e in R
Random_Nerd: Yeah. That's trival, at this point.
Knockwood: Short version: if the first level of infinity, Aleph-Null, is the nerdiness of the typical RPGer, then the second level of infinity, Aleph-One, is the nerdiness of RPGers who argue number theory. :D
Etheric: Could soomeone explain the alephs to me because I've never heard that terminology?
Lazarus: Aleph-1 to Aleph-2 was a neat proof, and I can only sorta remember the basics of it :( (specifically, it involved mapping from 2-space to 3-space)
Random_Nerd: It's a way of talking about different sizes of infinity.
Knockwood: there are Aleph-Null untegers, and Aleph-One real numbers
Lazarus: Aleph-0 is the "infinity" on the N scale, Aleph-1 is infinity on the R scale, and Aleph 2 is bigger.
Lazarus: I seem to recall the dimension change from 2-space to 3-space being important. Bah. I'll ask James tomorrow again.
Random_Nerd: So, by that metaphor, would Aleph-two be the nerdiness of people who argue about the Incompleteness Theorem? Because that one's really hard for me. I can understand it, for a week, if I take a week going over all the steps again.
Random_Nerd: But then I lose the details again.
Etheric: Lessee, if I had to guess I'd say that imaginaries plus reals is also only equal to aleph one. Or not?
Lazarus: Incompleteness? I sorta vaguely remember hearing that one once
Knockwood: almost. Aleph-2 is the nerdiness of people who _understand_ the Incompleteness Theorem. :)
BethE: (Night, guys. *HUGS* Good game. :) Need to get to bed due to work.)
Lazarus: Etheric: I believe you're correct there.