Difference between revisions of "Talk:Scratch"

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(stuff to do when delayed)
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==term for actions that can only be used once per battle==
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==Toughness is Overpowered==
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As the Scratch system has evolved, hit points have gradually increased relative to the damage of attack abilities, so everybody wants to be a tank because hit points guarantee you will last longer.
  
Characters can intimidate and surprise once per battle. What key phrase should we use to indicate an action can only be used once per battle?
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Currently our official average hit points are about right (3 for an unarmored average person, 4 or 5 for a "squishy" PC, 6 or more for a tank) and the power of our attack abilities is about right (some people say they are too powerful, some say they have been nerfed, so that suggests we have hit the sweet spot.)
  
"prepared" action - we were using this in the skill system. It's meaning is not obvious.
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So how do we tweak the incentives so that squishy characters will be happy with 4 or 5 hit points, but tanks will still want to have lots of hit points?
  
"one time" action - sounds like it can only be used once ever.
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We already have the engage action, which helps tanks absorb damage by drawing aggro. In playtesting, healers are more likely to be targeted by holds than high-damage attacks, so wrestling (to increase strength) might actually be better for healers than lots of toughness. Healers and long-range attackers can also take cover.
  
"single use" action
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====Bug to Feature====
  
"limited use" action
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Context could play a big part here, because this problem is likely to be fixed by the skill system intended for Squawk 2nd Ed.  TDW might be the last game in the foreseeable future that uses Scratch without skills.  ''In TDW, there is a really good narrative to why PCs should gain toughness more often than other abilities'', which the following text could be added to TDW to explain:
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:Essence often warps Sorcerers into more powerful forms, increasing their size, natural armor, or other physical alterations that make them more physically resilient.  Therefore, it is appropriate for Sorcerers to use essence to gain Toughness more often than other abilities.
 +
If we go with this option, this Toughness balance issue can be tabled until we are using skills in Scratch.
  
"trick"
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====Real Solution====
  
"feat"
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What if we had a rule for all injured or incapacitated characters (including minions) that between encounters they only heal to barely-healthy, unless they can make a detection, craftsmanship or healing roll to regenerate themselves to full HP?
  
"stunt"
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:This would decrease the guarantee that hit points make you last longer, which would be good.
  
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:Can you use your roll to heal an ally instead of yourself?
  
==hitting or shooting an enemy should not keep them from escaping==
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::"Yes" makes more narrative sense IMHO. --[[User:BFGalbraith|BFGalbraith]] 10:17, 25 June 2011 (PDT)
  
Only catch and hold should stop an enemy from escaping.
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:This should be the rule for a "normal" encounter cycle. Depending on the game this could mean a short rest, a month or a year of rehabilitation. Within each game there may be some back-to-back encounters without the opportunity to heal, and there may be longer breaks or full healing services at some points in a long campaign (i.e. "return to town".)
  
Pros:
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:The normal encounter cycle should also be the cycle for changing craftsmanship bonuses.
  
*simplifies the escape rule
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:You should not be able to respec minions in the normal encounter cycle. You need a longer break ("return to town") to replace, modify or retrain your minions.
*increases the value of movement abilities
 
*more like grid rules (where you can escape by leaving the map even if you got hit.)
 
  
Cons:
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==more realistic healing options==
  
*it's already easy enough to escape if only one PC needs to escape.
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Note: the three main scratch projects right now (TDW, HoW, Squawk 2nd Ed.) are fantasy/sci-fi with lots of explanations for "unrealistic healing." IMHO this rule may be decided on in the not-near future.--[[User:BFGalbraith|BFGalbraith]] 14:31, 20 June 2011 (PDT)
*hacking or blasting someone should slow them down
 
**IMHO being injured should slow someone downI am not sure how the rules could reflect this withtout grid... --[[User:BFGalbraith|BFGalbraith]] 04:46, 25 May 2011 (UTC)
 
*if the enemies do not have wrestling, catch is still usually inferior to hold, because the fleeing characters will just evade again, and hold targets strength rather than agility.
 
  
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games without healing ability (dinosaurs and prehistoric animals)
  
We could make a successful catch action delay the target until the end of it's next turn as well as taking away the evade bonus. This would make catch superior to hold in many cases (it targets agility instead of strength and it takes away the evade bonus.) However it would also make it easy for a character with lots of movement abilities to delay a very large character. (We could limit that by saying you can only catch someone who is evading.)
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hardcore
  
 +
*HP never goes up during combat
 +
**damage always represents injuries that take a long time to heal.
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**It never represents physical or psychic pain, suffocation or stunning effects that people can recover from during combat. (This could make the rule incompatible with some settings or other optional rules like skills.)
 +
*healing still used in combat with death rules?
 +
**does first aid remove the healer from combat?
 +
***NO, either you can use healing as a combat action or you don't use healing until hostilities stop. This is all about how you interpret the duration of combat.
 +
****If you insist on a very quick flow of combat without pauses for maneuvering and orientation (combat takes seconds), then there is not time in a battle to treat multiple injured allies, and it is not necessary or even appropriate to treat injured allies during combat.
 +
****If combat turns are more like camera shots in an action movie and clashes in a real fight, which are interrupted by pauses and maneuvers that vary in duration (combat takes minutes), there is time in a battle to treat multiple injured allies or treat an ally and then return fire at an enemy.
  
We could make catch a bonus action.
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milder
  
==stuff to do when delayed==
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*you can only be healed from being incapacitated once per battle. We could give this state a name, like convalescent or wounded.
 +
*we could also limit each healer to healing one character form injured to healthy once per battle.
  
Delayed characters cannot move or perform actions. Perhaps knockout, shooting and blasting should not prevent you from moving, only from performing actions.
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healing between battles
  
:What if delayed characters could still do bonus actions?--[[User:BFGalbraith|BFGalbraith]] 04:48, 25 May 2011 (UTC)
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*everybody heals to stamina + 1 between battles (balance and stability - game designers know you will have most of your HP when you enter a battle.)
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*make toughness roll to heal yourself to full HP
 +
*make healing roll for each ally to heal them to full HP
  
==imbalance between abilities==
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healing skills
  
Here's how I estimate the approximate value of each ability. This scale is adjusted so that 1 level of an attack ability is worth 1. It's not exactly the same as the CP scale.
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*special healing skills might be able to heal you when normal healing actions cannot.
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*special toughness skills might allow you to be healed more often.
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*toughness skills that help you be healed?
  
TOUGHNESS (more valuable at low levels, normal human toughness is 3)
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==optional death rules==
-15  1 toughness
 
  -5  2 toughness
 
  0  3 toughness
 
  3  4 toughness
 
  5  5 toughness
 
  7  6 toughness
 
  9  7 toughness
 
  11  8 toughness
 
  12  9 toughness
 
  13 10 toughness
 
ABILITIES (in addition to the value of each level)
 
  -5  no attack ability
 
  5  flying + blasting or shooting ability
 
  5  heal (healing ability)
 
  3  each command ability minion
 
  2  intimidate (command ability)
 
  2  surprise (stealth or detection ability)
 
LEVELS
 
  1  each level of attack ability, stealth, command or craftsmanship
 
  ½  each level of quickness, acrobatics, flying or detection
 
  ¼  each level of swimming or healing
 
  
*Toughness is so valuable because none of the other abilities are useful when you are incapacitated, and attack abilities are less useful when you are injured. Toughness is especially valuable at low levels when you have a high risk of getting injured or incapacitated by each attack.
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realistic or brutal games like [[Resilience]] might have death rules that add dramatic tension and character expendability.
*Most characters have an attack ability, so I listed not having an attack ability as a -5. If you do not have an attack ability, you basically have half as many attacks or half as much attack power when you are healthy.
 
*With flying and long rang attacks you can avoid close range attacks.
 
*Having 1 level of healing ability gives you a 60% chance to heal allies. Each additional level increases the chance of success by 5% or in other words by about 1/12 of the value of 1 level of healing ability.
 
*If you have 2 minions, you can do 3 command attacks (each minion plus intimidate) on your first turn (in addition to a normal action.) So having command and two minions is about as valuable as 8 attack ability levels.
 
*Stealth is the most popular ability that gives agility because players feel like the big up-front initiative bonus is very useful.
 
*Quickness, acrobatics and flying ability levels are less valuable than attack ability levels because they only increase your agility, evade and catch bonuses. Agility does not protect you against all attacks, evade is only used in tight spots, and catch is a weak alternative to hold.
 
*Detection has that popular initiative bonus, but intelligence is the least used defense.
 
*While you are in the water, swimming levels are the most useful (except for low levels of toughness and command) because they can contribute to both (close range) attack and (agility) defense. Unfortunately, swimming is not useful in most battles.
 
 
 
==strong swimmers==
 
 
 
Swimming should give you strength.
 
 
 
Pro:
 
 
 
*Swimming is by far the least useful ability.
 
*Even small human swimmers are pretty strong.
 
 
 
Con:
 
 
 
*Some small swimming creatures are not strong.
 
 
 
 
 
==distraction abilities==
 
 
 
You should be able to add ANY ability level except for toughness to a distract roll (close range delay attack vs. intelligence)
 
 
 
Pro:
 
 
 
*distract does not currently have an ability bonus
 
*toughness is by far the most useful ability
 
 
 
Con:
 
 
 
*vague narrative
 
 
 
This "attack by role-playing" can be framed in a positive or negative way. For example it does allow a player to throw a random ability at an enemy and delay him, leaving other players scratching their heads about what happened. On the other hand it allows players to have fun inventing their own tricks for distracting enemies.
 

Latest revision as of 01:17, 30 June 2011

Toughness is Overpowered[edit]

As the Scratch system has evolved, hit points have gradually increased relative to the damage of attack abilities, so everybody wants to be a tank because hit points guarantee you will last longer.

Currently our official average hit points are about right (3 for an unarmored average person, 4 or 5 for a "squishy" PC, 6 or more for a tank) and the power of our attack abilities is about right (some people say they are too powerful, some say they have been nerfed, so that suggests we have hit the sweet spot.)

So how do we tweak the incentives so that squishy characters will be happy with 4 or 5 hit points, but tanks will still want to have lots of hit points?

We already have the engage action, which helps tanks absorb damage by drawing aggro. In playtesting, healers are more likely to be targeted by holds than high-damage attacks, so wrestling (to increase strength) might actually be better for healers than lots of toughness. Healers and long-range attackers can also take cover.

Bug to Feature[edit]

Context could play a big part here, because this problem is likely to be fixed by the skill system intended for Squawk 2nd Ed. TDW might be the last game in the foreseeable future that uses Scratch without skills. In TDW, there is a really good narrative to why PCs should gain toughness more often than other abilities, which the following text could be added to TDW to explain:

Essence often warps Sorcerers into more powerful forms, increasing their size, natural armor, or other physical alterations that make them more physically resilient. Therefore, it is appropriate for Sorcerers to use essence to gain Toughness more often than other abilities.

If we go with this option, this Toughness balance issue can be tabled until we are using skills in Scratch.

Real Solution[edit]

What if we had a rule for all injured or incapacitated characters (including minions) that between encounters they only heal to barely-healthy, unless they can make a detection, craftsmanship or healing roll to regenerate themselves to full HP?

This would decrease the guarantee that hit points make you last longer, which would be good.
Can you use your roll to heal an ally instead of yourself?
"Yes" makes more narrative sense IMHO. --BFGalbraith 10:17, 25 June 2011 (PDT)
This should be the rule for a "normal" encounter cycle. Depending on the game this could mean a short rest, a month or a year of rehabilitation. Within each game there may be some back-to-back encounters without the opportunity to heal, and there may be longer breaks or full healing services at some points in a long campaign (i.e. "return to town".)
The normal encounter cycle should also be the cycle for changing craftsmanship bonuses.
You should not be able to respec minions in the normal encounter cycle. You need a longer break ("return to town") to replace, modify or retrain your minions.

more realistic healing options[edit]

Note: the three main scratch projects right now (TDW, HoW, Squawk 2nd Ed.) are fantasy/sci-fi with lots of explanations for "unrealistic healing." IMHO this rule may be decided on in the not-near future.--BFGalbraith 14:31, 20 June 2011 (PDT)

games without healing ability (dinosaurs and prehistoric animals)

hardcore

  • HP never goes up during combat
    • damage always represents injuries that take a long time to heal.
    • It never represents physical or psychic pain, suffocation or stunning effects that people can recover from during combat. (This could make the rule incompatible with some settings or other optional rules like skills.)
  • healing still used in combat with death rules?
    • does first aid remove the healer from combat?
      • NO, either you can use healing as a combat action or you don't use healing until hostilities stop. This is all about how you interpret the duration of combat.
        • If you insist on a very quick flow of combat without pauses for maneuvering and orientation (combat takes seconds), then there is not time in a battle to treat multiple injured allies, and it is not necessary or even appropriate to treat injured allies during combat.
        • If combat turns are more like camera shots in an action movie and clashes in a real fight, which are interrupted by pauses and maneuvers that vary in duration (combat takes minutes), there is time in a battle to treat multiple injured allies or treat an ally and then return fire at an enemy.

milder

  • you can only be healed from being incapacitated once per battle. We could give this state a name, like convalescent or wounded.
  • we could also limit each healer to healing one character form injured to healthy once per battle.

healing between battles

  • everybody heals to stamina + 1 between battles (balance and stability - game designers know you will have most of your HP when you enter a battle.)
  • make toughness roll to heal yourself to full HP
  • make healing roll for each ally to heal them to full HP

healing skills

  • special healing skills might be able to heal you when normal healing actions cannot.
  • special toughness skills might allow you to be healed more often.
  • toughness skills that help you be healed?

optional death rules[edit]

realistic or brutal games like Resilience might have death rules that add dramatic tension and character expendability.