TheStarsAreRight:HenrikNote1
REDLAND
About a half hour after the Pentheus officials have set up the staff meeting to discuss the issue with the possession of Mr. Jamison, Redland hands the following note to Henrik and then scurries back to his tent to finish up his observational report to Pentheus.
Henrik,
I wanted to apologize to you for slapping your wife. There is really no good excuse for hitting a friend, and I feel really terrible about it. I have, of course, already apologized to her personally.
I also wanted to apologize for telling Pentheus that you were planning to unofficially observe the field test. I hope you'll believe that my intentions were good. I wanted to avert any misunderstandings that might result in harm to anyone. However, that being said, the way I acted was underhanded and paternalistic. If I really believed that strongly, the right thing to do would have been to try to convince you guys, not to go behind your back. I'm not sure that I can promise not to ever do something like that again, but I will certainly try my best to be less arrogant and more trustworthy.
That being said, I want to awkwardly segue into a third apology regarding something else I've done. I have talked to Mr. Usher and set up the 'miracle' to break the bond between Auda and Rebecca. I know I told you I would consult you before finalizing any deal and allow you to pay any price that might be required. Let me just say, that the price I paid was so low as to be negligible, but the deal had to be seized immediately or it would slip away. I can tell you more about it if you like, and if you want to go through with it, we'd still need to convince Rebecca and Auda. I have some thoughts on how that might go, but I'll leave the ball in your court on this matter.
Finally, I want to apologize for giving you this note instead of saying this in person. After the debacle in Bailey, I feel like I somewhat redeemed myself here, and I hate to screw that up by inadvertently saying something stupid ... also, I was sort of afraid that you were going to shoot me earlier.
Sincerely,
Redland Jack
P.S. I believe that Rebecca was right to counsel you against taking 'Communion' with the Fae. I also agree with her that the Fae could be very dangerous to mankind. I don't agree that they are in any way more evil than typical humans, and I think we should help them. Two out of three, though, I guess?
HENRIK
(Note: I'm not sure about exactly when this exchange would occur,
but since I can't make it this weekend I thought it was important
to stay connected. I'm writing this as a long speech, but perhaps
it can be edited into more of a dialog with Jack.)
Jack, I wanted to reassure you about the apologies you offered.
While I had some difficulties with the situation at the time, the
thought of shooting you never crossed my mind.
I did want to talk to you some about philosophy with an eye toward what we think Pentheus is doing. You have talked before about German and British philosophy, and I wanted to check with you about this. This is difficult for me, though, in that I cannot make sense of formal philosophy. I have read a lot since dropping out of secondary school, but mostly they are histories or novels.
I feel like I do know a fair bit about German and British thinking, though as a Catholic I am outside of both of them. In recent centuries, both countries have... dug deeply into the Protestant spirit. There is a kind of dour, thinking idea. Hmm. I'm not sure how to say it.
The enlightened Protestants want to think that everything can be brought into order by hard work and deep thinking. They are not comfortable with mysteries. So in some sense they want to conquer the world, to bring it into line with how they see things.
Now, there can be no doubt who is the superior in some sense. The English are hugely better as conquerers. Half the world is speaking the English language: across North America, in Australia, South Africa, and India, and they are building in China and the Holy Lands. Since being conquered by the Prussians, German-speakers have developed an imitation of the conquering English spirit, but I think it does not fit well in the middle of Europe.
I think the empire-making philosophy -- that is, the set of mind that goes with that sort of empire conquest... I think that fits better with a shipping country like England. The English are comfortable with how they can be caretakers of the Indians and the Australians and other races. On the continent, though, among more like people these race theories are disastrous.
Of course, I am mixing up a lot of what armies and governments do with what philosophers do here. But I think they are related in their thinking.
In an empire, one country sees itself as the guardian and the protector of many. It doesn't say to itself that the others are to be conquered, just that it is better positioned to protect. That is what Pentheus is doing -- it is setting itself up to be the guardian of others, and in so doing it will be making its empire.
REDLAND
[Sorry this took so long. I just finished taking a big exam today, so things slid a bit!]
"Hmmm. That sounds a bit like Max Weber's 'Protestant Ethic' theory. I'm not certain I buy it, but I'm probably biased towards philosophy or economics as an explanation, as opposed to religion. In paricular, in terms of the conquering spirit, I'm not sure that the Protestants have any particular edge on the Catholics. The Spanish and Portuguese certainly did a thorough job in South America. Completely inept, rivaled only by the French, but that's a different story.
"The Protestants have less centralization as a dominant world view than the Catholics, which may coincide with incentives to accumulate capital. 'Usury' is less looked down upon, allowing greater ease of investment (i.e., all people can lend money instead of just outsiders like the always despised Jewish moneylenders).
"Let's. I would tend to split the break things down more into the desire to conquer and the ability to do so. While there may be something to the lackluster economic performance of Catholic countries, I think British exceptionalism is more likely than a religious bifurcation.
"The British philosophy is largely influenced by logical, utilitarian-type thinkers: Hume, Smith, Bentham, Mill. Although not opposed to religion, the British philosophy is separate from it. (Unlike the continental philosophers who are ensnared by religion, whether they see it or not).
"Our western religions are expansionistic and monolithic (I know little of the eastern religions). This provides the conquering spirit. However, the spirit without the means is impotent.
"It is the British philosophy that provides the capability. Utilitarian philosophy, with welfare as the summum bonum (as opposed to continental philosophy, which elevates virtue), is not disinclined to the material betterment of people. We lack the... contempt... that those on the continent feel towards merchants ... middlemen... new money.
"Now. As regards our empire. The incentives here are fairly standard: gold, god, glory, and good intentions. We are misguided as to the first, as I believe the people of the Netherlands are better to emulate, if one seeks prosperity.
"As to good intentions. Well, I do believe that we are, perhaps, the most benevolent empire the world has ever known. I mean, most of the places we've colonized are just ... fricking benighted. Our ways are better. They should emulate us.
"That being said, I don't know if we're actually improving their lot.
"So I guess I share, to some extent, your concern. I think Pentheus has the utilitarian spirit, and hence the means to implement their goal. I think they will mimic the religious proselytizing spirit to achieve their goal. I think Pentheus will try to make things better. I think they are better positioned than anyone else to protect everyone. However, if each individual doesn't choose it for himself, I can't know. Can we force people to be 'better off'? Are our colonies succeeding in this goal?
"However, to do nothing.... I don't know... That's why I want to talk to the Outsiders. War will entail a lot of suffering. Maybe there's a better way."
HENRIK
(Note: I'm picturing the two sitting down at tea somewhere rough where they have to set up the kettle, etc. They are taking turns in setting up while the other talks.)
Henrik:
Jack, it is good we are talking like this. I appreciated your letter, but to tell the truth, I don't understand most of the words you have just been using. I am following some of it, though, and I can get some ideas from your tone and expressions.
You said something about the Continental philosophers elevating virtue, as opposed to something about material -- was that the summum bonum? That sounds like what I thought. So, the Spanish Empire in Central and South America is much less successful in material prosperity than the English in the North. So it may be that Indians in the United States today are materially better off because they live in a richer country.
However, what I learn from reading is that there are many more surviving Indians within the Spanish Empire, while in the English territory they have been nearly wiped out. For example... there are many people who still speak the... how is it? ... the language of the Aztekisch, in Mexico. I don't know that they are treated any better by the Spanish-speakers than others by the English-speakers. I have met too many Spaniards to think much of their morals even though I share their Catholicism.
Still, there are more of them alive now under the Spanish, which may in part come from this philosophy that holds virtue to come first before the... er... the utility or perhaps the summum bonum?
Anyway, this is what I would fear from Pentheus... That they would see virtue as something to be pursued later. I would not want to fight them, as they are allies, but I do not want to join them.
I am glad we share similar concerns about them, and I would agree that not to have an invasion or war at all would be best -- though I have equal concerns about you that you should put virtue first.
I do have some more specific thoughts about what we should be doing, as well, as alternatives to joining Pentheus. But first, I am curious about the state of your negotiations, as well as other thoughts you are having.
REDLAND
[OOC- I'm going to truncate this a bit at the end, in case you want to say something. If not, just let me know, and I'll finish up a few other things]
"Ah. Sorry. There was no need for me to use the term, summum bonum, when it translates so easily into 'Ultimate Good' (although a more useful translation might be 'Ultimate Value').
"The British philosophers believe that the ultimate good is Happiness (or Well-Being or Utility, if you prefer). To be a Utilitarian means, essentially, that you think that an action is right or good if it maximizes happiness. This explicit definition of an ultimate good as happiness and the explicit desire to maximize is, perhaps, the main reason that Utilitarians philosophy is so coherent.
"Take the following thought experiment:
"If you could take an action that would result in the short and long run happiness of everyone in the world increasing, but would simultaneously result in a decrease in their quantity of virtue, would this be something you should do?
"A Utilitarian would find the answer to be simple. Since happiness is the ultimate good, of course you should do this.
"This is not to say that Utilitarians consider virtue to be unimportant. It is typically a necessary input to happiness. It is hard to imagine a happy society where the people did not desire to be Just. However, the value of justice is not 'in and of itself'. The famous saying , 'Let justice be done, though the heavens fall' is facially absurd. Justice is a good thing because of the consequences it brings about. If a world full of injustice, somehow, made people happier, a Utilitarian would (rightly) say that justice has ceased to be a 'virtue', and is, in fact, now a vice.
"The contrast with continental philosophy is stark. These philosophies take no interest in human happiness. A system of morals is meant to make us better off. If it doesn't contribute to our well-being, it is like a hammer made of glass.
"As to practical consequences, it is not surprising that those who follow a philosophy that venerates happiness will achieve greater prosperity than those who follow the philosophy of the ascetic."
[Jack pauses for a moment]
"Anyhow, I'm certainly happy to talk (or debate) at length the merits of different philosophical systems, if you like, but I should probably also address your practical questions, at least for a moment.
"As to negotiations, I have made little progress on this front. For a couple of reasons. 1) I have not yet had any opportunity to have a discussion with someone from the 'opposition'. 2) I am still so ignorant as to what exactly is going on in the world, that I've not pursued negotiations very aggressively, for fear that I'll blunder and make things worse.
"I do frequently talk about these things with Carl, so that he can assist me and will recognize my continuing interest in talking to individuals and groups with a variety of interests."
HENRIK
While we do seem to have a deep difference in philosophy, I suspect it may not be as... as deep as it first seems. That is, I guess that the philosophers who talk about happiness don't really think that people should be immoral -- but rather they think that acting moral and being happy are joint goals. At the same time, I would guess the Continental philosophers are not against happiness... They are not like Indian ascetics who seek out discomfort, but rather think that morality will ultimately bring about the most happiness.
But I should bring this to a more practical level...
I have spoken ill of the empire-building that I think Pentheus is leaning towards, but I haven't spoken of the alternative. Basically, I think the alternative to a fighting empire is to bring people to fight for themselves. For this, we need to wake the population up -- to convince them of the danger and give them the information they need.
The best way I can think to do that would be to have a field test in public. I am not sure how to best accomplish that, however. I wouldn't want to unduly endanger people, but at the same time, we are all in danger and people need to come to terms with that. I don't think Pentheus would like this plan, though, so I would need to find other methods.
REDLAND
"Here is an area in which, I believe, we are in absolute agreement. That is, if we cannot avert a crisis through discussion, the optimal way to proceed is to make people aware of what is occurring so they can defend themselves. Our preference for this course may very well betray our profound ignorance as newcomers. That being said, despite Carl's preference for mystical solutions, he has discussed outreach in the past. Newspapers, radio, academic papers, etc. would be a conservative method of attempting this. Your idea for a public field test is, of course, a little more radical. Time being of the essence, however, it is certainly not unreasonable.
"Hmmm. I'm not sure that Pentheus is wholly opposed to something like this. After all, their plan does entail taking advantage of an 'incursion' to rally support. Generating their own incursion might hold some appeal to them, though an uncontrolled incursion and a field test would be perceived very differently by the public, so, who knows?
"Let's see. If we were to do it ourselves (and we were to eschew the normal methods), how would it work? We could try summoning our own monster in a high-density region, like London. There are several problems, though:
1) We don't really know how to summon 2) Summoning seems to involve human sacrifice, which we probably couldn't stomach 3) We'd have no particular means of containment 4) Even given '3', we'd have to allow the Outsider to do some serious damage to get any reaction 5) Even allowing it to do extensive damage, people might be able to rationalize the problem away
"Hmmm. I have a thought. According to my research, some of the more 'intelligent' Outsiders are able to take on an avatar and move about the earth relatively freely. I wonder if I could bargain with one of these fellows... allow him access to the world in exchange for helping us generate publicity.
"I could also check with the Dark Pharaoh and see if he has any ideas.
"We could try to become more prominent ourselves. Get elected Prime Minister or somesuch.
"We could attempt to develop our own 'cult' and start proselytizing. If the followers who were getting the word out had some sort of undeniable 'magic' at their fingertips, they could conceivably expand quite rapidly.
"It's something to think on, anyway. Do you have any ideas off the top of your head?"
